Sarah Palin Denial Syndrome?

[ponderingturtle]

I want to follow up on this point. By saying that Sarah Palin is drop-dead stupid, this is being kind. The alternative is to suggest that she is a lying sack of rhymes-with-spit or a raving lunatic.

The evidence, of which there is a mountain visible to anyone who cares to pay attention, is that this woman has said many foolish things, many untrue things, many ignorant things. I have previously discussed on this forum the foolish, untrue and ignorant things that spewed from the pie holes of Reagan and Little Bush. And the conclusion is unpleasant. Either these folks were imbeciles who really believed the nonsense they were spewing, or they were dishonest in the extreme. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, the evidence supported the conclusion was that they were imbeciles.

Baa, only an elitist intelectual is concerned with things like being factualy correct.

 

[applecorped]

Yeah, well I think the same thing, except with the party names reversed. Am I saying that to feel superior? I'd like to think that this isn't the case, but if I didn't believe my opinion was the better one to hold, then why the heck would I hold it?

Because the alternatives suck? Or you could have no opinion, but as the saying goes opinions are like ********, everybody's got one.

 

[roger]

I think this is common to nearly all points of view and can even be extended to things like buying CDs, books and clothes. Most individuals are in a long-term quest to stake out their own personal identity. This includes politics. [snip]

Just quoting to say I especially liked your post (that liking is entirely disconnected from whatever is being said in this thread). We so often forget how carefully we construct identities, and never speak of it, yet it is such a basic make up of our beings.

Fortunately I, roger the rock climber and pit bull lover, am free of such things!

 

[Whiplash]

I thought Palin running was the wet dream of everyone on the left. It assured a total victory.

Why are you trying to talk the GOP out of that Parky?

I sense equal confusion, from the left, with regards to Sarah Palin. They hate her, and fear her, and love her and want her to be the nominee, all at the same time.

 

[roger]

"Do you agree with the Bush Doctrine"
"In what respect, Charlie"



What insight into Russian actions particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of this state give you?


They’re our next door neighbors. And you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska.





Q: You said the cream of the crop, what other, I guess, up-and-comers or maybe not up-and-comers, but what other potential candidates are you looking at to support and fund and campaign for?
PALIN: No doubt there are candidates who will not seek my support because some will perceive me as being too polarizing and if they're in more liberal districts or states they won't want someone like me who has been unfortunately by the media put in a box as being so parochial and myopic in terms of some positions that they won't recognize my own independence. So some people will shy away from my support that I could offer. But those who recognize that I do have strong opinions, a very strong independent streak in me and a lot of common sense and if they ask for my help, I'm gonna give it to them.






And that's the kind of thing that is disturbing. She makes a sweeping statement, she gets asked to be specific, and she cannot. What up-and-comers are the cream? uhh, babble. Which advisors to Obama should be let go? Umm, the bad ones. etc.


Another example:

Couric: You've said, quote, "John McCain will reform the way Wall Street does business." Other than supporting stricter regulations of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years ago, can you give us any more example of his leading the charge for more oversight?

Palin: I think that the example that you just cited, with his warnings two years ago about Fannie and Freddie - that, that's paramount. That's more than a heck of a lot of other senators and representatives did for us.

Couric: But he's been in Congress for 26 years. He's been chairman of the powerful Commerce Committee. And he has almost always sided with less regulation, not more.
<snip>
Couric: But can you give me any other concrete examples? Because I know you've said Barack Obama is a lot of talk and no action. Can you give me any other examples in his 26 years of John McCain truly taking a stand on this?

Palin: I can give you examples of things that John McCain has done, that has shown his foresight, his pragmatism, and his leadership abilities. And that is what America needs today.

Couric: I'm just going to ask you one more time - not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation.

Palin: I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you.


It's not the wolf hunting. It really, really isn't. (I referred to the cheat sheet on my hand to remember to mention that, I must admit)

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Just out of curiosity, where is the Sarah Palin Denial Syndrome described in the OP?

Out of the conservatives who have responded to this thread, none of us want her to run.

None of us think she will run.

None of us will vote for her if she did (at least in the primaries).

And we all agree she damaged herself with her own mistakes as much as her opponents have with their attacks.

Palin "denial" syndrome seems less about denial than it does about insufficient hatred.

 

[Skeptic]

I sense equal confusion, from the left, with regards to Sarah Palin. They hate her, and fear her, and love her and want her to be the nominee, all at the same time.

Easily explainable. They want her to run because they think she is obviously so stupid anybody they run against her would win; the are afraid she will run because they think the American people just might be stupid enough to vote for her anyway.

In short, both wishing she run and wishing she doesn't come from the same source -- contempt for the opponent's and their supporters' intelligence, one of the main things that loses the democrats elections.

Quite odd, to see the constant dismissal of the "stupid brainwashed masses" by a party that is supposed to be the one that cares about "the people", but that's the way it is.

 

[roger]

Just out of curiosity, where is the Sarah Palin Denial Syndrome described in the OP?

Out of the conservatives who have responded to this thread, none of us want her to run.

None of us think she will run.

None of us will vote for her if she did (at least in the primaries).

I didn't see where in the OP where the author was attributing this to posters on JREF.

Nationally, 30% of Republicans, and 25% of independents want her to run. Source Surely not a majority, but there is a substantial minority that want her to run.



It's a legitimate question, I think, albeit a bit loaded. Why do these people want her to run? Is she smarter or more knowledgable than we think she is? Offer the evidence. Is it her charm? Or what? We don't know.

The stats are interesting in that both the numbers for a favorable and unfavorable impression are raising over time, suggesting that the issue is becoming more polarized. Is it cultural, as some suggest? Has she shared a more specific message (now that she doesn't have to give the VP line) that some like and others dislike?

Why is being interested in evidence of hatred?

 

[Skeptic]

JPalin "denial" syndrome seems less about denial than it does about insufficient hatred.

Essentially so. It's the gall some conservatives have -- to deny the "obvious truth" that Palin is the dumbest human being on the planet and the most evil one, to boot. You think she'd make a weak candidate? You think she fumbled in her interviews? You think others are more qualified? Not good enough. You must hate and despise her with a vengeance.

 

[roger]

Easily explainable. They want her to run because they think she is obviously so stupid anybody they run against her would win; the are afraid she will run because they think the American people just might be stupid enough to vote for her anyway.

In short, both wishing she run and wishing she doesn't come from the same source -- contempt for the opponent's and their supporters' intelligence, one of the main things that loses the democrats elections.

Quite odd, to see the constant dismissal of the "stupid brainwashed masses" by a party that is supposed to be the one that cares about "the people", but that's the way it is.

I must admit to detecting a lot of hatred and vilification in this thread.

 

[Darth Rotor]

She is a natural born citizen of the United States, she is at least thirty-five years old and has been a permanent resident in the United States for at least fourteen years.

She qualifies.

For job experience, she was a governor. So was Bill Clinton. So was Jimmy Carter. So was Ronald Reagan. So was Shrub.

So wasn't Richard Nixon.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I am beginning to feel a sort of growing dread that the actual "Palin denial syndrome" will prove to be a liberal denial that Palin is going to be a significant force in national politics for the rest of her life.

And I think she'll pull a Gary Hart sort of dumbarse stunt, though maybe not by philandering, but some other dare for the media to take on, and allow her to hoist herself on her own petard.

But in the meantime, she's entertaining, so let the show go on.

Eskimo Nell has hit the big time
... in the USA

(Cross reference a rugby song and a Beatles song there ... )

 

[Darth Rotor]

Putting all ideology & partisanship aside, there is one overwhelming fact about her that makes it a deal-killer for me. When the going got tough in Alaska, Sarah Palin quit... Yup, that's who I want as president of the United States... a quitter

I see her eresignation differently: she is more about "Sarah Palin" than she is about serving.

Given that the next election is 2012, there was ample time to serve out her term as Gov of Alaska, serve her people in her state, and then move gracefully to candidate in 2012.

But she didn't.

Not well played for someone who wishes to lead, and to serve, which is what I look for in a candidate. (And rarely find).

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

Ronald Reagan was an imbecile who became president.

Spoken like a true imbecile.

I find it bizarre that an allegedly (hell, demonstrably) intelligent person gets so emotionally wrapped up in a successful politician's alleged intelligence, on the basis of a party, or an ideology, that he utters such tripe as you posted there.

It ought to embarass a critical thinker, but the post shows me otherwise: zero self-awareness, or blissful tunnel vision.

Smart enough to become leader/spokesperson of a peer group (among actors)
Smart enough to get elected Gov of CA.
Smart enough to get elected Pres.
Smart enough to know how to effectively communicate

You don't/didn't like his policies? Fine, I wasn't keen on his deregulating power companies, at all. (And a few other things, which "I don't recall" at the moment. ).

You attribute a difference of world view to an intelligence barometer?

Ought to embarass you, to expose yourself so.

Why do you bother posting on a critical thinking site, I wonder? I don't want you to stop, as I find of great interest many of your posts on the SC.

DR

 

[applecorped]

And I think she'll pull a Gary Hart sort of dumbarse stunt, though maybe not by philandering, but some other dare for the media to take on, and allow her to hoist herself on her own petard.

But in the meantime, she's entertaining, so let the show go on.

Eskimo Nell has hit the big time
... in the USA

(Cross reference a rugby song and a Beatles song there ... )

She was a working girl
North of Alaska way
Now she's hit the big time
In the U.S.A.
And if she could only hear me
This is what I'd say.

Sara Palin you are making me crazy
I'm in love but I'm lazy
So won't you please come home.

Oh Sara dear my position is tragic
Come and show me the magic
of your Washington song.

You became a legend of the Right in DC
And now the thought of meeting you
Makes me weak in the knee.

 

[Skeptic]

You attribute a difference of world view to an intelligence barometer?

This I find the liberals' greatest weakness. Many conservatives are strong conservatives but still can see how someone can become a liberal without thinking that shows the person is stupid or evil. Liberals, however, very often tend to see the very fact that someone is a conservative as evidence they're evil and/or stupid and/or brainwashed.

Perhaps the reason is that many (most?) conservatives used to be liberal in school, as the vast majority of schoolteachers and college teachers are liberals, so they know that being a liberal does not imply being mentally defective. (For example, my own shift towards conservatism occurred in the Israeli army, for reasons not relevant here, but after I was educated as a standard-issue liberal in high school.)

But many politically-active liberals are still in school, or else have never changed their "default" liberalism from a very young age, so they see the very possibility of someone being a conservative the same way as someone being a flat-earther.

 

[Whiplash]

I must agree with your take there Skeptic. When I was first becoming interesting in political stuff, as a young teen, I remember I'd hear a conservative position and think it made sense. I'd embrace it, and tell it to my friends, and they'd all guffaw and laugh, and insult me. They never tried to disagree with what I was saying. They would instead attack me personally, and in a manner that I recognized even then as being some kind of group think or clique mentality. They wanted to be in the hip, cool "liberal" clique. My embracing anything remotely republican or conservative meant I was not being an appropriate "rebel". Even though it's gotten where you are more of a rebel being a young conservative. By far.

Nothing drove me more to the right than bringing ideas to the table, and having friends and fellows I knew berate and insult me for even considering them. It kicked that "maverick" mentality in my head. We all have it on some level. We don't want to be the same as all the other "sheep". We want to be unique. And I saw a lot of sheep. People who felt strongly for all the bumper sticker slogans and idealism.. but fell well short when it came to an understanding of the issues and underlying reasons and causes. They didn't even want to understand. It was just "Liberal = cool, Conservative = stupid".

I think a lot of them have never gotten past that mentality. Probably because, as you said, they have not been challenged enough with regards to those beliefs.

 

[Sporanox]

I say it simply because I observe that your argument boils down to an assertion that the level of disapproval Sarah Palin is subject to (from some) is based more upon her cultural background than her actual flaws.
You point out that the "Caribou Barbie" stereotype is threatening to some due to its' alienness. The hunting, and the "you betcha' " are code for- "not like us" to her detractors.
Could the same not be said about "Barak Hussein Obama" and his "community organising"?
Can I not use the same rationale to link ODS to racism?

Maybe you missed the ODS thread I started. If you did, take a look at the third example - some guy on Ace of Spades HQ blathering on about our "Indonesian full retard of a President" or thereabouts. I have met, as have you, individuals who are motivated to oppose Obama because he is black.

The HUGE problem with attributing racial motive to most criticisms of those who dislike Obama, however, is that they don't mention any "black" qualities. In short, they don't mention his ethnicity, as Mike has pointed out earlier - "culture" is in many ways similar to that particular word, and may even be synonymous, depending on which academic you consult. Whereas how many flame-on tirades against Palin mention the word redneck or rednecking behaviors she indulges in for no discernable reason?

Obviously there are rural Americans who don't like her. I'm not out to attribute the same motive to them or the bulk of those who disapprove of Palin.

 

[roger]

I must agree with your take there Skeptic. When I was first becoming interesting in political stuff, as a young teen, I remember I'd hear a conservative position and think it made sense. I'd embrace it, and tell it to my friends, and they'd all guffaw and laugh, and insult me. They never tried to disagree with what I was saying. They would instead attack me personally, and in a manner that I recognized even then as being some kind of group think or clique mentality. They wanted to be in the hip, cool "liberal" clique. My embracing anything remotely republican or conservative meant I was not being an appropriate "rebel". Even though it's gotten where you are more of a rebel being a young conservative. By far.

Okay, I'm sure you've experienced this, but this is a thread about the merits of Sarah Palin as President. About all I've seen from you and skeptic in this thread is slams on liberals. Why not address the issue of Palin's appeal? Why attack us, why point out that your group is intelligent and able to recognize the strengths of the other party, etc? Just above your post we have somebody suggesting somebody else isn't being a real skeptic. Previously you simultaneously critisized liberals for 1) wanting a poor candidate, and 2) wanting a good candidate. That's a 'can't win' situation.

It goes both ways, IOW.

So, what about Palin? Is she intelligent? Does she grasp the issues? Are those issues important and/or necessary for a good US President? Are there better Republican contenders that both sides should desire?

 

[Cleon]

Conservatives arrogantly looking down their noses at liberals for allegedly looking down their noses at conservatives.

Hypocrisy, thy name is Politics.