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Santorum attacks the Netherlands on euthanasia

eeyore1954 said:
I tried to find it also because it seemed so far off from what the truth is. But I believe you can hear him saying this in the video in the opening link.
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Yep--Earthborn pointed that out to me (with an embedded yt video) above.

Simply incredible!
 
ddt said:
But in the end, it's the delegates at the Republican Convention (and thus now, the voters in the primaries/caucuses) who determine who gets to be the Republican candidate. Those delegates will be pledged to the candidate they were voted to support.
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It's not quite that straightforward. Remember the 2008 Democrat nomination between Obama and Clinton. They were close enough for a while that the unelected, uncommitted "superdelegates" held considerable power.

The same is true this year for the Republicans. If the delegate count from the primary season is close, uncommitted superdelegates will again hold considerable power. They're established pros and they are simply not going to vote Santorum.

Also, in some states, if there are multiple votes, the delegates can vote their own opinion after the first ballot and are not bound by the vote back home.
 
NoahFence said:
Uh, isn't "involuntary euthanasia" murder?
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Technically, euthanasia means "mercy killing". What most people here seem to be thinking of is "doctor assisted suicide". Sometimes, in some cultures, people are put to death even if they are incapable of giving consent, in order to end their suffering. In the US, (and probably the Netherlands) this is rare. Withholding treatment is not the same thing as euthanasia.

Animals, on the other hand, are often euthanized, and I'm guessing it's involuntary. But only PETA people call it "murder".
 
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Tricky said:
Technically, euthanasia means "mercy killing". What most people here seem to be thinking of is "doctor assisted suicide". Sometimes, in some cultures, people are put to death even if they are incapable of giving consent, in order to end their suffering. In the US, (and probably the Netherlands) this is rare. Withholding treatment is not the same thing as euthanasia.
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FWIW, from what I read the law in question in the Netherlands talks about both euthanasia and assisted suicide. I'm not sure what the distinction is there.

But it most definitely is only allowed in very limited circumstances and at the request of the patient. (There is no evidence of any involuntary euthanasias being committed under this law in the Netherlands, much less the numbers Santorum is claiming.)

ETA: Again, from the Wiki article I cited early in this thread:

Euthanasia remains a criminal offense in cases not meeting the law's specific conditions, with the exception of several situations that are not subject to the restrictions of the law at all, because they are considered normal medical practice:
-stopping or not starting a medically useless (futile) treatment
-stopping or not starting a treatment at the patient's request
-speeding up death as a side-effect of treatment necessary for alleviating serious suffering
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JoeTheJuggler said:
FWIW, from what I read the law in question in the Netherlands talks about both euthanasia and assisted suicide. I'm not sure what the distinction is there.
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Euthanasia is when the doctor administers the lethal substances. Assisted suicide is when the patient does so and the doctor is present the monitor the process.

JoeTheJuggler said:
But it most definitely is only allowed in very limited circumstances and at the request of the patient. (There is no evidence of any involuntary euthanasias being committed under this law in the Netherlands, much less the numbers Santorum is claiming.)
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And the doctor has to report each case to the DA. IIRC, the law is also formulated as that the doctor gets a pass at being prosecuted for murder.
 
Tricky said:
Technically, euthanasia means "mercy killing". What most people here seem to be thinking of is "doctor assisted suicide". Sometimes, in some cultures, people are put to death even if they are incapable of giving consent, in order to end their suffering. In the US, (and probably the Netherlands) this is rare. Withholding treatment is not the same thing as euthanasia.

Animals, on the other hand, are often euthanized, and I'm guessing it's involuntary. But only PETA people call it "murder".
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'euthanasia' meant 'good death' or 'easy death'.

It could accomplished through a gentle suicide or through the help of a friend or a doctor. It could result in death quickly or after days or weeks. It could be withholding nutrition or medication, failing to intervene medically, or active intervention (e.g. poison).

Why we can show mercy to other animals by putting them out of pain or avoiding a long, drawn-out dying process but refuse to show the same mercy to people is monsterous.
 
Complexity said:
'euthanasia' meant 'good death' or 'easy death'.

It could accomplished through a gentle suicide or through the help of a friend or a doctor. It could result in death quickly or after days or weeks. It could be withholding nutrition or medication, failing to intervene medically, or active intervention (e.g. poison).

Why we can show mercy to other animals by putting them out of pain or avoiding a long, drawn-out dying process but refuse to show the same mercy to people is monsterous.
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This.

Dr Jack was right.
 
Isn't this the same muppet that commented on gay marriage being the same thing as incest?

What's interesting is the commentary on the bottom of the article linked in this OP.

American conservatives don't quite understand the Netherlands, as with Oreilly's outburst of the Netherlands being overrun by violent crime, potheads, etc.
 
It's just funny how American conservatives have to paint the Netherlands as some kind of failed state.

Yup, we have gay marriage, semi-legal pot, legal prostitution and we're overwhelmingly atheist.

And we're (statistically) happy, rich and healthy.
 
Yes but this kind of message is intended for Americans that have never even left their own state let alone traveled abroad. They eat up the idea that Western Europe is filled with socialist dystopias because it allows them to keep believing that things like universal healthcare and social safety nets are evil.
 
Yes, how dare those Dutchies have medical euthanasia. That costs money.

Santorum knows that the same end can be achieved financially and in far greater numbers, the side benefit to which are that those "euthanised" either can't or won't vote for him anyway.
 
Earthborn said:
It is far more common that old people are disappointed because they don't get euthanised. I've never heard of anyone wearing a "do not euthanise" bracelet, but lots of people have signed "please do euthanise" papers which are rarely honoured.
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Turgor said:
If anything, euthanasia or having a say in how/when your life ends is still too restrictive here in the Netherlands. I've never heard about "Don't Euthanize Me" bracelets, but there are "Do Not Resuscitate" necklaces which most medical personnel just ignore. People end up in coma's or with severe disabilities against their wishes.
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We have a not dissimilar situation here in the States. There's a number of reasons, but we spend a lot of money (both patients/families and Medicare) doing every thing possible to keep dying people alive for another 3-6 months when I'm sure many of them would rather spend some quality time while still lucid, concious or able to speak saying goodbye and telling friends and family they love them.
 
Eddie Dane said:
It's just funny how American conservatives have to paint the Netherlands as some kind of failed state.

Yup, we have gay marriage, semi-legal pot, legal prostitution and we're overwhelmingly atheist.

And we're (statistically) happy, rich and healthy.
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Yep. But the GOP doesn't need no stinking facts.
 
RandFan said:
Yep. But the GOP doesn't need no stinking facts.
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I read the comments under the article from the OP.
Quite a lot of conservatives weighing in, who probably came there because some wingnut site linked to the article.

Holy smoke. Those people live in bizarro world.
 
Eddie Dane said:
I read the comments under the article from the OP.
Quite a lot of conservatives weighing in, who probably came there because some wingnut site linked to the article.

Holy smoke. Those people live in bizarro world.
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Any specific ones catch your eye?
 
Eddie Dane said:
It's just funny how American conservatives have to paint the Netherlands as some kind of failed state.

Yup, we have gay marriage, semi-legal pot, legal prostitution and we're overwhelmingly atheist.
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Plenty of Dutch that are still protestant. Let them have their faith if you they aren't as aggressive and/or militant as those seen in conservative America. But I do find it interesting that you put gay marriage, legalization/control of marijuana and prostitution on par with atheism, as if its natural progression. The last bit Marx would be proud of. :p
 
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