Sane Republicans should leave the party now

[Brainster]

Yes, encouraging thuggery at the highest levels of the party:

“If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard,” Messina said, according to an official who attended the meeting.

The hourlong session was the last opportunity for Democratic leaders and the White House to prepare senators for what will be a crucial month in shaping public opinion on health care. With no final legislation to promote, senators have expressed concern about dealing with questions and criticisms about the almost $1 trillion overhaul. The spate of confrontational town hall meetings have raised the stakes.

 

[Brainster]

Wow, I really sympathize with you, Piggy. It is ironic that the people whom are fighting you the most in this thread are the ones within your own party.

Considering that he's suggesting that everybody leave that party for some amorphous entity, all I have to say about this observation is, "Well, duh!" Do you really think Democrats would be talking down this suggestion?

 

[The Platypus]

The thing is that most of the sane ones have already left, that why the republicans are having a melt down and becoming more insane, and more uncivilized by the day.

The republican party is overrun of creationists, conspiracy theorists, racists and antisemites, and various other wacko and extreme cults, and they seem to attract only the crazy, the selfish and the mean nasty people out there.

 

[Piggy]

Yes, encouraging thuggery at the highest levels of the party:

I suppose if a person thinks the mini-mobs are productive and positive, then he will also think that similar tactics by the Democrats are a good thing, too. (Although I have yet to see any indication that Democrats are planning to encourage disruption of Republican town halls.)

And I suppose if a person objects to "thuggery" on the part of the Democrats, he will also object to the same strategy being used by the GOP.

Now, back to the topic, please.

 

[Piggy]

The thing is that most of the sane ones have already left, that why the republicans are having a melt down and becoming more insane, and more uncivilized by the day.

The republican party is overrun of creationists, conspiracy theorists, racists and antisemites, and various other wacko and extreme cults, and they seem to attract only the crazy, the selfish and the mean nasty people out there.

The GOP is down from about 32% at the election to about 21% now, which is significant. And I think it's fair to say that the defection has been overwhelmingly among moderates.

Independents are up from 29% to 38%.

But the Democrats are also down slightly, which means a small number of Republicans have defected to 3rd parties.

Right now, independents outnumber Democrats (and, of course, Republicans) which is why I think the time is ripe for a new party that sweeps the middle. And given the tendency of people to become more conservative during recessions -- and the fact that the Democrats have no reason to defect with their candidates in control of the White House and Congress -- GOP defectors have the best shot at forming such a party.

Not all the moderates have abandoned ship. Powell is still in the fold, as are Snowe and Collins and a few others. There are also still moderate rank and file, but their voices are no longer effective in most districts.

All of the moderates are watching the current situation with alarm. And things are not improving.

The GOP is not yet a completely fringe party, but it may have reached the tipping point where the bigots, conspiracy theorists, free-market anarchists, and other fringe elements have such a hold over the primaries, the voting records of elected officials, and the image of the party that recovery becomes an impossible challenge.

I'm afraid we have probably reached that point.

Which is why I advocate that non-fringe members of the GOP leave now and urge leaders like Powell and Snow to exit as well and regroup.

Such a move would guarantee marginal status to the radicals.

 

[MattusMaximus]

Considering that he's suggesting that everybody leave that party for some amorphous entity, all I have to say about this observation is, "Well, duh!" Do you really think Democrats would be talking down this suggestion?

Actually, as a Democrat, I agree with Piggy that I'd like to see the GOP come back to saner waters. I want to see the Republican party become a reasonable & productive party once again, as opposed to the excessively churchy torch & pitchfork crowd (as Piggy calls it) that seems to dominate it now.

I'm not so ideological as to think that purely Democratic dominance of the government long term is necessarily a good thing, despite what you may think.

 

[MattusMaximus]

The GOP is down from about 32% at the election to about 21% now, which is significant. And I think it's fair to say that the defection has been overwhelmingly among moderates.

Really?!!

Wow, I had no idea things were that bad. Is this the number of people who identify themselves as Republicans in polls, or it is from actual party registration? What's your source for that number?

Independents are up from 29% to 38%.

Again, source please? Thanks in advance.

But the Democrats are also down slightly, which means a small number of Republicans have defected to 3rd parties.

Right now, independents outnumber Democrats (and, of course, Republicans) which is why I think the time is ripe for a new party that sweeps the middle. And given the tendency of people to become more conservative during recessions -- and the fact that the Democrats have no reason to defect with their candidates in control of the White House and Congress -- GOP defectors have the best shot at forming such a party.

This is something that I've wanted to see for some time - a viable third party. One of my primary complaints about U.S. politics is the dominance of the two-party system. I was actually quite hopeful about the Reform Party in the 1990s until it was sabotaged by GOP operatives.

Not all the moderates have abandoned ship. Powell is still in the fold, as are Snowe and Collins and a few others. There are also still moderate rank and file, but their voices are no longer effective in most districts.

I respect all three of those folks immensely, and I would love to see them split off and give the finger to the whackjobs.

All of the moderates are watching the current situation with alarm. And things are not improving.

Sadly, I have to agree, Piggy. One of my concerns is that some elements of the Democratic party become just as nutty in the opposite direction in order to "balance out" the nutiness in the GOP. I haven't seen this happen (yet), and hopefully it won't ever. We have enough b.s. being slung around now as it is, we don't need the Dems to go that route as well.

The GOP is not yet a completely fringe party, but it may have reached the tipping point where the bigots, conspiracy theorists, free-market anarchists, and other fringe elements have such a hold over the primaries, the voting records of elected officials, and the image of the party that recovery becomes an impossible challenge.

I'm afraid we have probably reached that point.

Key word hi-lited there. On the current course, I give the GOP until after the 2010 elections until it reaches "fringe" status.

Which is why I advocate that non-fringe members of the GOP leave now and urge leaders like Powell and Snow to exit as well and regroup.

Such a move would guarantee marginal status to the radicals.

Yup. Again, good luck.

 

[Piggy]

Really?!!

Wow, I had no idea things were that bad. Is this the number of people who identify themselves as Republicans in polls, or it is from actual party registration? What's your source for that number?

Self-identifying. Source is Washington Post.

ETA: Other %s also from that source.

 

[Piggy]

One of my concerns is that some elements of the Democratic party become just as nutty in the opposite direction in order to "balance out" the nutiness in the GOP.

Too bad y'all couldn't send Bill Clinton over to Israel and convince them to keep Cynthia McKinney.

 

[leftysergeant]

The more closely I follow the events surrounding the health care town halls, the more convinced I am that most of the sane Republicans already have jumped ship and the crazies have set a course, full speed ahead, at low tide, for the Great Barrier Reef.

 

[SezMe]

I think that's a bit of an over-the-top metaphor. For sure, Cap Bligh is still in the wheelhouse and they're taking on water. But make no mistake our hero, Fletcher Christian, will soon make his appearance and steer the ship to safer waters.

As pure speculation, the shoals will be 2010 but after that they will change course.







Did I stretch that too far.

 

[Piggy]

I think that's a bit of an over-the-top metaphor. For sure, Cap Bligh is still in the wheelhouse and they're taking on water. But make no mistake our hero, Fletcher Christian, will soon make his appearance and steer the ship to safer waters.

As pure speculation, the shoals will be 2010 but after that they will change course.

The question is, who and how?

The majority of the Republicans still in office owe their seats to the Palinistas.

Given that, who is going to step up and change direction?

There's one scenario: The economy doesn't recover sufficiently and we get an anti-Democratic backlash.

But if that happens, will people vote Republican? Or will they vote independent or blue dog or 3rd party?

If the GOP continues to side with the pitchforkers, option A will be highly unattractive.

And if the economy has begun a reversal by the '10 elections, then how do we get a Republican renaissance?

 

[SezMe]

The question is, who and how?

First, the disclaimer: Hell, I don't know.

But let me give you just one possible scenario. The Reps lose a couple more Senate seats in 2010 and hold their own or gain just a few seats in the House. All the glitterati call it the third straight loss for them. Steele gets the boot. Jindal, Newt, et. al. are now seen as loss leaders.

Jon Huntsman, after a big trade or global warming win in China, returns to the US to much aclaim. He gets a lot of ink and face time. He's relatively young, from the West (Utah; read: not from the South) and holds very moderate positions.

He leads a resurgent independent voter, Blue Dogs and sane Reps to the nomination in 2012. In the meantime, the bloom is off the Obama rose - especially if we are attacked again.

Huntsman becomes the 45th prez and campions a new middle-of-the-road party.

Finally, to repeat: Hell, I don't know.

 

[Foolmewunz]

I'm of an age that I well remember the moderate Republicans. Rockefeller, Scranton, Javits, Lindsay, G. Romney... Hell, I admired most of them and voted for a couple.

Having said that, I now sympathize with your plight. There wouldn't be any room under the tiny tent for the likes of same nowadays.

Ya know, the mind is funny.

There's no way I could've actually voted for any of those guys, but I believed I had when I wrote that. (I was a radical in the 60s and living "underground" - and I spent the 70s in Canada.)

I did vote liberal/moderate regardless of party when I got back to the US but that was in 1980 and certainly past the prime of the liberal wing of the GOP.


I apologize. (Not that it amounts to anything in terms of the present discussion, but it sort of hammered me when I realized what I'd done.)
I have no idea why it seemed so true to me at the time of posting.

 

[MattusMaximus]

Self-identifying. Source is Washington Post.

ETA: Other %s also from that source.

Yikes

The GOP is even more screwed than I thought. That explains a lot of the nutty behavior from the party of late, seeing as how most moderates are heading for the exits. This is a recipe for disaster for the Republican party, and - by extension - the nation. I say this because, for the immediate future, I can only see the GOP getting more and more extreme & insane.

Buckle up, folks. It's going to be an interesting ride.

 

[MattusMaximus]

Too bad y'all couldn't send Bill Clinton over to Israel and convince them to keep Cynthia McKinney.

Ahem, Cynthia who?

 

[MattusMaximus]

First, the disclaimer: Hell, I don't know.

But let me give you just one possible scenario. The Reps lose a couple more Senate seats in 2010 and hold their own or gain just a few seats in the House. All the glitterati call it the third straight loss for them. Steele gets the boot. Jindal, Newt, et. al. are now seen as loss leaders.

Jon Huntsman, after a big trade or global warming win in China, returns to the US to much aclaim. He gets a lot of ink and face time. He's relatively young, from the West (Utah; read: not from the South) and holds very moderate positions.

He leads a resurgent independent voter, Blue Dogs and sane Reps to the nomination in 2012. In the meantime, the bloom is off the Obama rose - especially if we are attacked again.

Huntsman becomes the 45th prez and campions a new middle-of-the-road party.

Finally, to repeat: Hell, I don't know.

One big problem with this scenario... GOP primaries. Huntsman will never get past the Republican primaries which are dominated by the hardcore conservatives - those folks don't want a moderate.

If Huntsman could get past the primaries, you might be on to something. But I don't see it happening with the nutters in the GOP running the show.

 

[Piggy]

Yikes

The GOP is even more screwed than I thought. That explains a lot of the nutty behavior from the party of late, seeing as how most moderates are heading for the exits. This is a recipe for disaster for the Republican party, and - by extension - the nation. I say this because, for the immediate future, I can only see the GOP getting more and more extreme & insane.

Buckle up, folks. It's going to be an interesting ride.

So you see where I'm coming from.

My proposal doesn't seem as extreme now, does it?

 

[Piggy]

Ahem, Cynthia who?

<Hears cock crow three times.>

 

[Piggy]

One big problem with this scenario... GOP primaries. Huntsman will never get past the Republican primaries which are dominated by the hardcore conservatives - those folks don't want a moderate.

If Huntsman could get past the primaries, you might be on to something. But I don't see it happening with the nutters in the GOP running the show.

Exactly!

We couldn't even get to a Rockefeller/Goldwater showdown today because Rockefeller would never make it onto the floor.