Sam Harris on "Islamophobia"

[Jono]

Why use the term "phobia" in a way that it technically implies an ailment? It's a catch-phrase, it has nothing (or very little) with the actual clinical term. Regardless, since barely any comedian worth his/her salt dares to even flirt with Mohammed'esque jabs, as a general rule for fear of their own lives, I tend to agree with how Harris worded it in the OP's quote of his.

 

[mijopaalmc]

Why use the term "phobia" in a way that it technically implies an ailment? It's a catch-phrase, it has nothing (or very little) with the actual clinical term. Regardless, since barely any comedian worth his/her salt dares to even flirt with Mohammed'esque jabs, as a general rule for fear of their own lives, I tend to agree with how Harris worded it in the OP's quote of his.

Yeah, because homophobia is a clinical pathology.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

Yeah, because homophobia is a clinical pathology.

Neither one is.

 

[mijopaalmc]

Neither one is.

So is "homophobia" just a rhetorical fluorish to silence "critics" of homosexuality?

 

[colander]

Why use the term "phobia" in a way that it technically implies an ailment? It's a catch-phrase, it has nothing (or very little) with the actual clinical term. Regardless, since barely any comedian worth his/her salt dares to even flirt with Mohammed'esque jabs, as a general rule for fear of their own lives, I tend to agree with how Harris worded it in the OP's quote of his.

Jeff Dunham makes jokes about Islamists all the time and nobody has killed him yet (unfortunately).

I think the real reason that Muslim jokes aren't that common in comedy is because they aren't really all that funny or relatable to most people who aren't Muslims and don't really encounter Muslims very often.

 

[A'isha]

Then again, there are plenty of Muslim comedians out there. They even make dark satirical comedy movies about terrorism and jihadism.

 

[colander]

Then again, there are plenty of Muslim comedians out there. They even make dark satirical comedy movies about terrorism and jihadism.

Well, there we go. Anyway, I don't think fear of Muslim violence is the main thing stopping Louis C.K. from doing a jihad routine.

 

[Cleon]

Incidentally, "The Muslims are Coming" is on Netflix, and I highly recommend it. Funny and topical.

 

[Dissolution]

Dara O'Briainn, an Irish atheist comedian who's done various bits about religion and woo, explained a while ago that he doesn't do jokes about Islam because most people wouldn't get them.
He can have a dig at Christianity and Catholicism and most people in the UK or Ireland will have a frame of reference for that, but they wouldn't understand similar jokes based on the Muslim faith.

It's not about not wanting to offend, it's about wanting the audience to find you amusing.

 

[zugzwang]

Dave Allen specialized in satirical swipes at Catholicism, although I suppose his jokes/sketches weren't that savage. I sometimes wonder how his material would go today, post sex abuse scandals. But Allen knew that a British and Irish audience would get most of the jokes. See his sketch on religion at school, when he was four:

'Where is he? "He is here!" Where? I can't see him. "That doesn't mean because you can't see him he's not here". It doesn't? He's in the cupboard? "He's not in the cupboard! God doesn't go into cupboards!" He's under the stairs? "He's not under the stairs! He is here, with us now.'

Still makes me laugh.

 

[Ryokan]

The Norwegian comedians Harald Eia and Bård Tufte Johansen has several skits about Islam and Muslims. They're still alive and well.

Found some of it on YouTube, but it's of course in Norwegian...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RZNRAvxS_A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrt-nG-OhgY

 

[Humes fork]

Here's Penn Jillette:

Are there any groups you won’t go after?

We haven’t tackled Scientology because Showtime doesn’t want us to. Maybe they have deals with individual Scientologists—I’m not sure. And we haven’t tacked Islam because we have families.

Meaning, you won’t attack Islam because you’re afraid it’ll attack back …

Right, and I think the worst thing you can say about a group in a free society is that you’re afraid to talk about it—I can’t think of anything more horrific.

Of course, it might please some Islamic fundamentalists to hear you say that you won’t talk about them because you’re afraid …

It might, but you have to say what you believe, even it if pleases somebody you disagree with—that issue comes up all the time in moral discourse.

You do go after Christians, though …

Teller and I have been brutal to Christians, and their response shows that they’re good *********** Americans who believe in freedom of speech. We attack them all the time, and we still get letters that say, “We appreciate your passion. Sincerely yours, in Christ.” Christians come to our show at the Rio and give us Bibles all the time. They’re incredibly kind to us. Sure, there are a couple of them who live in garages, give themselves titles and send out death threats to me and Bill Maher and Trey Parker. But the vast majority are polite, open-minded people, and I respect them for that.

 

[Craig B]

Right, and I think the worst thing you can say about a group in a free society is that you’re afraid to talk about it—I can’t think of anything more horrific.

I can. If Penn Jillette had talked about it, and been attacked in consequence, that would be a lot worse. Groups in free societies should be condemned for their deeds, not simply for the fears they inspire, particularly in an environment where they are continually demonised.

 

[tsig]

I can. If Penn Jillette had talked about it, and been attacked in consequence, that would be a lot worse. Groups in free societies should be condemned for their deeds, not simply for the fears they inspire, particularly in an environment where they are continually demonised.

 

[A'isha]

Here's Penn Jillette:

How, exactly, is "Penn Gillette claims he's afraid for his life if he makes jokes about Islam" supposed to be a counterargument for all those other comedians, both Muslim and non-Muslim, who make jokes about Islam without, apparently, suffering from either the same fear or any consequences?

Or is this one of those "I reject your reality and substitute my own" things?

 

[Craig B]

It wouldn't have been worse?

 

[Dissolution]

Here's Penn Jillette:

That's more damning for Showtime than anything.
Not allowed to joke about one particular religion because they've paid you? Really?

 

[tsig]

How, exactly, is "Penn Gillette claims he's afraid for his life if he makes jokes about Islam" supposed to be a counterargument for all those other comedians, both Muslim and non-Muslim, who make jokes about Islam without, apparently, suffering from either the same fear or any consequences?

Or is this one of those "I reject your reality and substitute my own" things?

I'm not aware of those comedians could you link to them?

ETA: I don't see it as a counterargument just a plain statement of fact. In his opinion it is dangerous to joke about Islam.

 

[A'isha]

I'm not aware of those comedians could you link to them?

Scroll up.

EDIT:

I don't see it as a counterargument just a plain statement of fact.

No, it's just his opinion, not a fact at all.

In his opinion it is dangerous to joke about Islam.

And considering all the other comedians, both Muslim and non-Muslim, who make jokes about Islam and Muslims, I don't see why his opinion carries any weight on the matter.

 

[Craig B]

... just a plain statement of fact. In his opinion it is dangerous to joke about Islam.

Yes, that's a statement of the fact of his opinion. And the fact of his adverse opinion of this group is the worst thing you can say about any group in a free society, in his opinion.