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Salt cave therapy

idoubtit

Critical Thinker
idoubtit
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
365
I took a look at this thread about salt lamps...
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161585
but I have a particular issue with salt caves that was only briefly mentioned.

Our local skeptics group just had an exchange with the person who brought a new Himalayan salt cave to the area. It took him a while to notice the critique but he responded in force. We were not impressed. Eventually, he ended up providing us with a long list of references, mostly in Russian or Polish, and web sites. Very few seem credible but its hard for me to tell.

I'd really like an opinion on this. For these "natural" alternative modalities, one has to know a lot about a lot of different subjects (chemistry, allergies, etc.) to pick it apart. I'm leaning towards salt caves being as useful for people with upper respiratory problems as moving to the desert. It doesn't hurt and may provide relief but is not going to a cure all. What do you think?

Here is the exchange.
http://keystoneinquiry.wordpress.com/2011/03/23/woo-comes-to-pa/
 
I followed a few links from the Wiki page

Western experts remain sceptical,...
(...)
Experts abroad remain doubtful. "There is very little evidence available to suggest it is an effective intervention treatment for people with asthma," said Caroline Moye of Asthma UK.
(...)
Professor Kian Fan Chung, an asthma expert from the National Heart and Lung Institute at Imperial College, said he was unfamiliar with the treatment but that it was unlikely to be harmful. "It sounds rather fun and that may be one reason it produces good results," he said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/dec/03/ukraine.tomparfitt
Click to expand...


Western doctors are sceptical of claims that salt therapy can cure respiratory problems.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4575388.stm
Click to expand...

Here's a group of photos from Time/CNN- quite a variety of places:

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1725240_1554592,00.html

Couldn't find much else, other than folks selling it. Sorry.

I'll stick with proven remedies for specific issues.
 
I looked into this stuff a few months ago and came up empty handed too. The thing you have to ask yourself is "Wow, it would be fantastically easy to double-blind study this stuff, why haven't the claimants had it done by an independent group yet?" I'm actually heavily in favor of a recognized body running the studies, I hear this one all the time, and my aunt recently bragged to me about all of her new salt lamps and crap they sold her. Terrible!
 
Madalch said:
Your aunt is buying crap from her new salt lamps? Weird.
Click to expand...

Well you can't exactly expect salt lamps to just give their crap away. They'd go out of business!

But I wonder what salt lamp crap looks like. Is it brown or translucent?
 
Am I understanding correctly that the idea behind these "salt caves" is that you get some therapeutic benefit from just sitting in a room surrounded by big chunks of salt? Do the people who pay for this therapy also own large tracts of beachfront property in Arizona?
 
CORed said:
Am I understanding correctly that the idea behind these "salt caves" is that you get some therapeutic benefit from just sitting in a room surrounded by big chunks of salt?
Click to expand...

No. They have pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo sciency stuff to back up their claims:

Inside the salt cave, visitors can experience the following conditions:

* humidity of 40-50%
* temperature of 70-75 F
* the aerosol concentration of 0,5-15 mg/m3

The salt aerosol consists of salt particles in sizes of 1-5 micrometers. The particles carry
kinetic energy which is succeeding immediately after crushing the salt crystals in the
grinder.

The salt concentration of the air in the treatment area is approximately 73.5 mg (0.0002592 oz) -
similar to the consistency of salty air at the beach on an average morning. But the salt consistency
can be adjusted: in case of different diseases, various cure modes can be implemented.
Click to expand...

Woo Linky

And a real doctor claims:

“Salt is a strong natural antihistamine. It can be used to relieve asthma by putting it on the tongue
after drinking a glass or two of water.”

“Salt is vital for extracting excess acidity from inside the cells, particularly the brain cells. If you don’t
want Alzheimer’s disease, don’t go salt-free…”

“Salt is the best diuretic that exists.”

“Salt is vital for the kidneys to clear excess acidity and pass the acidity into the urine. Without
sufficient salt in the body, the body will become more and more acidic.”

“Salt is essential in the treatment of emotional and affective disorders.”
Click to expand...


Another woo linky

He's both a doctor and an MD:

Dr. Batmanghelidj, M.D.
Click to expand...
 
I noticed a lot of conflation. They like to use evidence for similar therapies, like saline inhalers, to support their claims which are not the same. But, it appears there is no harm in such things. They even invited us to a trial of the facility. However, I don't particularly trust them...
 
idoubtit said:
I noticed a lot of conflation. They like to use evidence for similar therapies, like saline inhalers, to support their claims which are not the same. But, it appears there is no harm in such things. They even invited us to a trial of the facility. However, I don't particularly trust them...
Click to expand...

I'd throw caution to the wind, and go.
But that's just me.











But throw some salt over your shoulder before you go. :)
 
EHocking said:
Talk about woo. From one of the passages on that page,
" of Himalayan salt, which is believed to be the purest salt on earth, containing all of the minerals that the human body requires for healthy living.."
​
How can it be the purest salt with all those mineral impurities in it?
:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

It's the same Zechstein salt that underlies Cheshire, much of the North Sea, large areas of Europe and pretty much anywhere that was around the margins of Pangaea during the breakup. Of course there will be local mineral variations, dependent on original composition and post depositional history, but basically it's what you get when a shallow sea repeatedly evaporates. "Pure" is not a word I'd associate with the process.
 
EHocking said:
Talk about woo. From one of the passages on that page,

" of Himalayan salt, which is believed to be the purest salt on earth, containing all of the minerals that the human body requires for healthy living.."
​
How can it be the purest salt with all those mineral impurities in it?
:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

It can't. The closest you could come to making completely pure salt is mixing
the purest grade of Hydrochloric Acid with the exactly same molarity and exactly same quantity of purest grade of Sodum Hydroxide solution which would give you functionally pure saltwater and then heat until all the water is evaporated away. I have made pure salt.....but I do not try to sell it as something special or especially healthful.


IT'S STILL JUST FREAKIN' SALT. GET A FREAKING GRIP!!!!!!!!!
 
Emet said:
No. They have pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo sciency stuff to back up their claims:



Woo Linky

And a real doctor claims:




Another woo linky

He's both a doctor and an MD:
Click to expand...


As a person with a history of taking in salt directly including many times when I was also taking antihistamines, I can safely say the salt never helped the cold/flu/nasal drip (and related) BUT some times the antihistamines did. I grant that is anecdote, but I trust it.
 
Soapy Sam said:
It's the same Zechstein salt that underlies Cheshire, much of the North Sea, large areas of Europe and pretty much anywhere that was around the margins of Pangaea during the breakup. Of course there will be local mineral variations, dependent on original composition and post depositional history, but basically it's what you get when a shallow sea repeatedly evaporates. "Pure" is not a word I'd associate with the process.
Click to expand...

May I safely assume it contains variable amounts of the animal and plant parts and waste products deposited in/with it?
 
idoubtit said:
I took a look at this thread about salt lamps...
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161585
but I have a particular issue with salt caves that was only briefly mentioned.

Our local skeptics group just had an exchange with the person who brought a new Himalayan salt cave to the area. It took him a while to notice the critique but he responded in force. We were not impressed. Eventually, he ended up providing us with a long list of references, mostly in Russian or Polish, and web sites. Very few seem credible but its hard for me to tell.

I'd really like an opinion on this. For these "natural" alternative modalities, one has to know a lot about a lot of different subjects (chemistry, allergies, etc.) to pick it apart. I'm leaning towards salt caves being as useful for people with upper respiratory problems as moving to the desert. It doesn't hurt and may provide relief but is not going to a cure all. What do you think?

Here is the exchange.
http://keystoneinquiry.wordpress.com/2011/03/23/woo-comes-to-pa/
Click to expand...

I guess that brings a new meaning to the old idiom "Back to the salt mines".
 
The particles carry kinetic energy which is succeeding immediately after crushing the salt crystals in the
grinder.
Click to expand...

:dl:



The salt concentration of the air in the treatment area is approximately 73.5 mg (0.0002592 oz) -
Click to expand...

Per what? Liter? Cubic foot? Cubic Meter?

Steve S
 
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