Split Thread SAIC, ARA and 9/11 (split from "All 43 videos...")

[jammonius]

Unless you are denying Dr Wood's claim (that the WTC towers were "dustified" by directed energy weapons) to which I alluded, your paragraph above contains no substance.

I am not denying Dr. Wood's claim as her claim is presented. As for me, the observed data confirms dustification.

When I said the THEL/ACTD was not operational, I meant it had not been placed in service by any military. As a technology demonstrator, however, it was operational in the sense of being usable for live-fire tests under artificially controlled conditions. I cited those tests in an earlier post, so I am confident that any intelligent person who has been following this thread would have understood what I meant by "operational". I am sorry you did not.

Will you kindly post a link to your prior post as doing so will enable all posters and lurkers to access the information to which you refer. Speaking for me, I do not recall the post you are referring to and I do not mind admitting as much.

When/If you provide a link to your post, I will comment further as deemed appropriate. In the main, the point is that the MIC has weapons that are not in the US arsenal. My point remains that within the MIC and the secrecy system that it hides in, the capacity to carryout the events of 9/11 can be found.
It does not appear that you are seeking to contradict that main point.

I too have weapons that the US arsenal does not have.

Your last comment unfortunately does not follow up on a point that you raised earlier that is important, I think.

You brought our attention to the U.S. Army Space & Missle Defense Command

That is a very helpful addition to this thread. One of the most helpful we have had, I think.

Now, the task is to follow up on your informational gift to the thread.

Your earlier post indicates that the T R W weapon system that I posted up, and discussed in relation to the MIC comes under the auspices of the USASMDC.

Well that is quite illuminating, could more posters but realize it.

Certainly, what some posters referred to as a "cat's-toy", either directly or indirectly, turns out to come under the auspices of the:

SPACE

and

MISSILE DEFENSE

COMMAND.

That is quite a place for "cat's toys" I would say. And, as between the two aspects of the

SPACE

and

MISSILE DEFENSE

COMMAND, which one has control over this:

???

I suggest all interested posters and lurkers post up what they can about the USASMDC.

Here's something for starters. The Fourteenth Annual Space and Missile Defense Conference and Exhibition took place at the Von Braun Center in Huntsville, Alabama, from 15 to 18 August 2010.

Calling all posters and lurkers: Did any of you attend that conference; and, if so, please post up about it.

Please note, too, that:

The conference and exhibition was sponsored by the National Defense Industrial Association -Tennessee Valley Chapter, the Air Space and Missile Defense Association, and the Air Defense Artillery Association - Redstone Chapter.

So, therein lies a number of possible research hints that I am making the thread aware of.

Finally in this respect, and although we as a group were a day late and a dollar short for the 2010 conference, take heart:

Registration for the 2011, 15th Annual Conference is open until by 31 July 2011.

However, even there you are cautioned that you need to hurry up and register, because:

Exhibit space for the 2011 conference is Sold Out.

But:

You can register on the Wait List and "they" will contact you if booth space becomes available.

I think I will likely attend, myself. Any other takers?

See: http://www.smdconf.org/

OK, posters, shall we give serious consideration to the facts as we now know them to be? If we do so, we can, indeed, gain insight into the MIC and into DEW.

I am unwilling to waste time on distractions about how unimpressive DEW are and about stupid claims concerning what DEW can and cannot do that are unsubstantiated by proper links and sources. I am not here seeking to persuade anyone of anything about DEW. I am here to encourage intelligent discussion about DEW in the context of the MIC, all as more fully stated in this post.

 

[carlitos]

Just in terms of saving time skimming the thread, may I ask which color is more true: purple, black, dark red, dark blue or cyan? This will help me focus. Thanks!

 

[Oystein]

...
Your earlier post indicates that the T R W weapon system that I posted up, and discussed in relation to the MIC comes under the auspices of the USASMDC.
...

How much energy can that T R W weapon system direct at a target? And in what way does that energy destroy its target?

The answer to that question would be very helpful, to put it into perspective (i.e., the >1.000.000.000.000 Joules of energy available from the mere mass and height of the towers, and the >1.000.000.000.000 Joules of energy abailable in the form of jet fuel and combustible office contents; and the observation that practically no material of the WTC was melted, whereas a small percentage was turned to dust.)

If it was determined that the T R W was able to only direct about 1.000.000 to 10.000.000 Joules of energy, and did not dustify but simply melt its target, we'd be able to conclude that no weapon system like the T R W needs to be seriously considered in the context of the destruction of the WTC, as their capacity is about 5 orders of magnitude too little to do the job, and their mode of destriction inconsistent with what was observed.

 

[jammonius]

Just in terms of saving time skimming the thread, may I ask which color is more true: purple, black, dark red or cyan? This will help me focus. Thanks!

Speaking of what is or is not true, please consider the following concerning the USASMDC's capabilities, mission and so on. This is the military branch that houses the DEW cat's toy, as some have called the THEL:

http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/album3/usasmdc1.jpg?t=1286893846
http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/album3/usasmdc2.jpg?t=1286893884
http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/album3/usasmdc3.jpg?t=1286893918
http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/album3/usasmdc4.jpg?t=1286893957



Carlitos, can you add to the information base of the thread, keeping in mind that:

...It's the MIC...

Edited by LashL: 

Removed images which also breach Rule 4 (potentially copyright violation as well as lengthy quoting). Just as members are not to quote long tracts of text, the rule cannot be avoided by posting a long tract of text in an image format.

 

[DGM]

jammonius:
Could you elaborate on what you view the MIC as being? Your referring to a huge list of occupations and jobs.

 

[jammonius]

jammonius:
Could you elaborate on what you view the MIC as being? Your referring to a huge list of occupations and jobs.

Yes. This has already been adequately done early on in this thread, to and including quantifying the number of people within the MIC who have security classifications, the number of companies said to be involved, numbering close on to 1500, if I recall correctly, and I think that is an underestimate. For instance, the Wash Post article, TOP SECRET AMERICA to which I am here referring made scant mention of the various branches, commands, directorates and so on within the US Military itself that comprises a component of the MIC.

The peculiar thing about all of this is that the privately owned part of the MIC is, like corporate America as a whole, driven by profit concerns, leading, of course, to greed, to fraud and to hideous, almost unthinkable outcomes.

I know it is difficult for people to come to grips with the fact that the MIC had a profit motive that benefited from the way in which the 9/11 psyop was presented. It is fair for me to acknowledge that people in general, let alone posters who identify as 90% debunkers, do not want to go near the connection between the MIC and 9/11. Oystein, for instance, is a champion at denial of this topic. You, DGM, on the other hand, appear to be a little more open for thoughtful exchange and discussion. I hope that will continue.

Denial, avoidance mechanisms and repression of one kind or another serve only to lay the foundation for the next and more deadly 9/11. We cannot afford to languish in the common storyline of 9/11. That stupidly silly, xenophobic story must be relinguished, challenged and overcome.

Thank you for your post and query, DGM. These are things that needed to be said.

Back to the nature of the MIC:

What stuck out for me was that the number of people involved were said to be approximately the same as the overall population of Wash DC, which probably means, what, 600-700 thousand folks, more or less?

As to what they do, that to has been adequately addressed. The MIC is noteable for compartmentalization of information, tasks, design, fabrication and all elements of what it does. As a result of compartmented operations, people who do virtually every sort of work there is under the sun can be involved in MIC operations. The secrecy aspect allows almost none of them to know the full picture as to either what they, themselves are doing, let alone the people in the neighboring cubicles, and still less the people in the building across town that also sits partially hidden from public view.

Such is the nature of the MIC.

I do wish more of our discussion could focus thusly, for therein lies a major clue to what transpired on 9/11.

Here, by the way, is an interesting and potentially revealing image taken from the cover posted above.

Look at this:

 

[DGM]

Yes. This has already been adequately done early on in this thread, to and including quantifying the number of people within the MIC who have security classifications, the number of companies said to be involved, numbering close on to 1500,

Do you believe it would be a good thing if the MIC was abolished? (I believe I asked you this before but you did not respond).


ETA: That does not come close to the number of people. Most likely millions.

 

[jammonius]

Do you believe it would be a good thing if the MIC was abolished? (I believe I asked you this before but you did not respond).

As you know, I am not comfortable posting up "belief" statements. I have said many times I do not care what posters believe, do not question their beliefs and I treat myself the same as everyone else; i.e., I do not get into posting up on the basis of belief.

I have, however, said that the Eisenhower Admonition concerning the clear and present danger of the MIC must be taken seriously. I have also very clearly said that the capacities of the MIC and the secrecy apparatus that covers and hides the activities of the MIC are a means by which and through which the events of 9/11 could have been carried out.

I have also, as suggested by the title of the thread, singled out SAIC and ARA as companies within the MIC that deserve very close scrutiny in connection with 9/11.

I stand by what I have said and continue to say. I think it better to remain in the realm of clearly articulated claims that have an a posteriori basis and avoid belief statements all around.

ETA: That does not come close to the number of people. Most likely millions.

Are you willing to source and/or substantiate your claim? It would be helpful to do so.

Keep in mind that the numbers indicated by TOP SECRET AMERICA refer only to those have SCs, and not who work for the MIC as a whole. It also does not include those directly employed by the military, let alone active duty military.

 

[DGM]

Keep in mind that the numbers indicated by TOP SECRET AMERICA refer only to those have SCs, and not who work for the MIC as a whole. It also does not include those directly employed by the military, let alone active duty military.

If you want me to source my numbers you need to give me a definition for the MIC. I have a security clearance and I only work for a defense company as a subcontractor (I do building maintenance). Your brush is way to broad.

 

[Sabretooth]

While the website http://unwantedpublicity.media.officelive.com/gallery.aspx is interesting to flip through, there is absolutely nothing that suggests Judy's delusions are real.

DEW's capable of destroying the WTC do not exist. Period.

 

[leftysergeant]

Speaking of what is or is not true, please consider the following concerning the USASMDC's capabilities, mission and so on. This is the military branch that houses the DEW cat's toy, as some have called the THEL:

http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/album3/usasmdc1.jpg?t=1286893846
http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/album3/usasmdc2.jpg?t=1286893884
http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/album3/usasmdc3.jpg?t=1286893918
http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/album3/usasmdc4.jpg?t=1286893957

You have proven that they have some cool lasers and targetting systems. There is nothing there to indicate that molecular disrupters exist, outside the disordered mind of a whacky old bat and a crackpot up in Canada who thinks he has discovered something new, or wants us to believe that he has.

 

[excaza]

Look at this:

[qimg]http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/album3/usasmdc5.jpg?t=1286894526[/qimg]

Wow, totally strange what happens when you detonate an EXPLOSIVE.

Honestly...

 

[leftysergeant]

Wow, totally strange what happens when you detonate an EXPLOSIVE.

Yeah, especially if you have a laser spotter to guide your munition right into the place where there is a lot of fuel stored.

 

[fess]

As you know, I am not comfortable posting up "belief" statements. I have said many times I do not care what posters believe, do not question their beliefs and I treat myself the same as everyone else; i.e., I do not get into posting up on the basis of belief.

I have, however, said that the Eisenhower Admonition concerning the clear and present danger of the MIC must be taken seriously. I have also very clearly said that the capacities of the MIC and the secrecy apparatus that covers and hides the activities of the MIC are a means by which and through which the events of 9/11 could have been carried out.
But you really don/t believe this.
I have also, as suggested by the title of the thread, singled out SAIC and ARA as companies within the MIC that deserve very close scrutiny in connection with 9/11.
But you really don/t believe this.
I stand by what I have said and continue to say. I think it better to remain in the realm of clearly articulated claims that have an a posteriori basis and avoid belief statements all around.
But you really don/t believe this.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

Will you kindly post a link to your prior post as doing so will enable all posters and lurkers to access the information to which you refer. Speaking for me, I do not recall the post you are referring to and I do not mind admitting as much.

Okay. To improve your admittedly small probability of noticing the citation you questioned, I will highlight it:

That's a Tactical High-Energy Laser/Advanced Concept Technology Demonstrator, aka THEL/ACTD, aka Nautilus laser system. It's a megawatt class laser powered by chemical energy (in a reaction that produces hydrogen fluoride).
[source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/systems/thel.htm ]

THEL/ACTD's capabilities were demonstrated in tests during 2000-2002. During those tests, it shot down 28 five-inch-diameter Katyusha rockets by focussing the laser beam on the rocket's warhead, heating the warhead to detonation. [source: http://defense-update.com/directory/THEL.htm ]
When used against targets that are not conveniently self-detonating, THEL/ACTD would be considerably less effective. Let's calculate how long it would take for an THEL/ACTD to destroy one WTC tower.

I was unable to find reliable technical data for "dustification", but it takes about 150 MJ/kg to vaporize an object. Each WTC tower weighs roughly 500000 tons, which is 5e8 kg (where the "5e8" means 5 multiplied by 10 to the 8th power), so it would take roughly

5e8 kg * 150 MJ/kg = 7.5e16 J

of energy to vaporize one WTC tower. With a 3 MW THEL/ACTD, it would take roughly

7.5e16 J / 3e6 W = 2.5e10 seconds

to vaporize one WTC tower. That's almost eight hundred years.

My calculations above assume that none of the laser energy absorbed by the tower would be lost by convection or re-radiation. Over the course of eight centuries, that assumption would not hold. In reality, a THEL/ACTD would never be able to vaporize a WTC tower.

That's hardly surprising, because each WTC tower absorbed about 1.4 MW of solar power at high noon, and absorbed about 4 MW during mid-morning and mid-afternoon when sunlight slanted down upon its sides. Another 3 MW of laser energy would be devastating to people and equipment hit by the laser beam, but would not have a huge effect on the overall temperature of the building.

The important part of that post is the part not highlighted.

 

[Oystein]

...For instance, the Wash Post article...

There you did it again! You hypocritically did not hold yourself to the standards you set up for us!
Remember:

Newspaper articles are not ever considered reliable as evidence for either legal or valid historical documentation purposes.​

One has to go to the primary sources for purposes of establishing the truth of a factual assertion that might have been made in a newspaper.

 

[Oystein]

As you know, I am not comfortable posting up "belief" statements. ...

This is not true.
You do nothing in this thread but post "belief" statements. Only difference is: You dishonestly chose to not label them properly as such.

Some of the core beliefs that you are woefully comfortable posting up, and posting up again and again, include statements such as

• It's the MIC
• SAIC and ARA controlled NIST
• The WTC, including its steel, was dustified
• DEW are capable of dustifying steel
• DEW are capable of destroying the WTC
• Mrs. Wood is right
• Mrs. Wood has offered proof
• Claims become valid by having them governmentally published
• etc.

All these are just beliefs
All these beliefs are wrong.

 

[fess]

After reading the “43 Video” thread and this thread, I am sure that my original assumption is correct; you can’t fix stupid, not even with duct tape. And, if duct tape can’t fix something, it is definitely broke!

 

[jammonius]

You have proven that they have some cool lasers and targetting systems. There is nothing there to indicate that molecular disrupters exist, outside the disordered mind of a whacky old bat and a crackpot up in Canada who thinks he has discovered something new, or wants us to believe that he has.

Greetings Lefty,

Your posting style consists by and large in over/under interpretation of the data I post. Your own posts are short on data, long on opinion. That's fine. Post as you see fit.

Remembering, if you will, that "...it's the MIC..." I think we would all be better off thinking expansively rather than narrowly about MIC capabilities. However, that's just me. I hold that the Eisenhower admonition should be taken seriously and that Eisenhower was in a better position to accurately warn us. I think the profit motivation and the ability to do things secretly are the main clues about what happened on 9/11.

I have provided a lot of information consistent with the claim that the MIC and its ability to carryout destruction in secret are the exact means by which and thhrough which 9/11 could have been done.

Conversely, the failure to even prove who financed the common storyline of 9/11 serves to confirm that storyline is false.

All posters and lurkers here will concede, won't they, that the financing of 9/11, as postulated by the common storyline, has not ever been proven or demonstrated, right?

 

[jammonius]

Okay. To improve your admittedly small probability of noticing the citation you questioned, I will highlight it:

The important part of that post is the part not highlighted.

WD,

permit me to suggest you post expansively on DEW and especially on the USASMDC that, if memory serves me correctly, you were first to mention. The thread is better served by thinking expansively about DEW, not narrowly. For instance, the mere fact that the THEL device is under the auspices of the USASMDC and not under the auspices of say, the 82nd Airborne, is, itself a revealing hint or clue.