Russia invades Georgia

[gumboot]

Look at how much is the cost of a dish of rice in rural China

Keep fighting that strawman...

 

[Matteo Martini]

[..]You two need a course in logic. Let me get this straight, here's what you're arguing...

Israel illegally occupy another country and it's okay (that in itself is highly questionable, to say the least), the reason being (according to you) because Israel is recognised as a member of the UN.

But Russia illegally occupy another country and it's not okay, and the reason according to you is... they're not recognised as a member of the UN...

Um...

You guys didn't think that through did you?

Where did I say that it is OK for me to have Israel occupy foreign land illegally?
That is just the point.
America did not scream about Israel occpying foreign land, but they did scream for Russia doinjg the same thing.
Where is the difference?

 

[Undesired Walrus]

So we're in agreement that neither Israel nor Russia's "illegal occupation" (accepting for a moment that's what they both are) was approved nor allowed by the UN, and that Undesired Walrus's comment about hypocrisy is about the responses of specific individual countries (i.e. the USA) and not the United Nations?

Yes. Yet, the UN are frequently ineffective, so their benign responses are indiscriminate.

 

[Matteo Martini]

Keep fighting that strawman...

You did not read the sentence I was replying to, did you?

 

[DC]

i think i missunderstood the "Israel illegally occupieng"
you prolly ment theyr "expantions" while i ment the first creation of the state Israel (which had UN approval)

 

[gumboot]

Where did I say that it is OK for me to have Israel occupy foreign land illegally?
That is just the point.
America did not scream about Israel occpying foreign land, but they did scream for Russia doinjg the same thing.
Where is the difference?

So you think the US is the UN?

And yet you accuse the USA of trying to present itself as the leader of the world...

 

[gumboot]

i think i missunderstood the "Israel illegally occupieng"
you prolly ment theyr "expantions" while i ment the first creation of the state Israel (which had UN approval)

Let's ask UW, he's the one that raised it. Then we can establish who is doing the misunderstanding here.

UW, when you referred to "illegal occupation by Israel" what did you mean?

 

[Matteo Martini]

So we're in agreement that neither Israel nor Russia's "illegal occupation" (accepting for a moment that's what they both are) was approved nor allowed by the UN, and that Undesired Walrus's comment about hypocrisy is about the responses of specific individual countries (i.e. the USA) and not the United Nations?

The United Nations are not an organization based on Mars, it is an organization controlled by few countries, basically, America, the West, and a little bit by Russia and China.
This is why we have three rounds of sanctions against Iran for keeping pursing their nuclear program and no sanction against the US for illegally going to war against Iraq.

P.S.
Sorry if I write separate answers

 

[DC]

So you think the US is the UN?

And yet you accuse the USA of trying to present itself as the leader of the world...

the US goerment is pesenting itself as the leader of the world. even worser, i think the US government really thinks they are the leader of the world.

 

[Matteo Martini]

So you think the US is the UN?

And yet you accuse the USA of trying to present itself as the leader of the world...

Did you read what I wrote?
I am not speaking about the UN now.
I ask you..
Why America did not scream about Israel occupying foreign land, but they did scream for Russia doing the same thing in SO?

 

[Matteo Martini]

the US goerment is pesenting itself as the leader of the world. even worser, i think the US government really thinks they are the leader of the world.

Nailed.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Let's ask UW, he's the one that raised it. Then we can establish who is doing the misunderstanding here.

UW, when you referred to "illegal occupation by Israel" what did you mean?

The violation of 425 calling for the 'immediate' withdrawal of Israeli troops from Lebanon. 22 years later, they dragged them back out. That's 8 years more than Hussain's violations.

 

[gumboot]

You did not read the sentence I was replying to, did you?

I did, but I also read the sentence you're ignoring, and the previous point which you ignored.

The issue is time, not money. No one is doubting China can afford to buy a bunch of stuff.

The question is "from whom?".

If I have fifty trillion dollars, can I buy 250 Aston Martin N400 roadsters?

No I can't. Because there's only 240. I could probably convince Aston Martin to make me 10 more, but that would take time.

And of course this is assuming the 240 current owners of those N400s are happy to sell.

 

[gumboot]

The violation of 425 calling for the 'immediate' withdrawal of Israeli troops from Lebanon. 22 years later, they dragged them back out. That's 8 years more than Hussain's violations.

Thanks.

So it appears that you are the one who was misunderstood, Dictator Cheney.

Edited for gooder English!

 

[DC]

The violation of 425 calling for the 'immediate' withdrawal of Israeli troops from Lebanon. 22 years later, they dragged them back out. That's 8 years more than Hussain's violations.

but with Sadam we was not sure if he still had some WMD's, in Israel we know they have WMDs.

 

[gumboot]

the US goerment is pesenting itself as the leader of the world. even worser, i think the US government really thinks they are the leader of the world.

Yes I know that, Matteo Martini has been whining about it all through this thread. Yet Matteo Martini just equated the world community (UN) with the USA, so despite their whining, Matteo Martini must agree with the USA.

I find that rather odd.

 

[DC]

Thanks.

So it appears that you are the wrong who was misunderstood, Dictator Cheney.

yes like i mentioned already, and indeed the occupation UW is talking about is oc not approved by the UN, in contrary.

 

[gumboot]

Did you read what I wrote?
I am not speaking about the UN now.

So when you said:

I also partially agreed.
I have nothing against Israel, but we to take into account that the UNO too, decides which countries to accept and which countries not to accept on the basis of power dynamics, I guess, not (or, at least, not only) on "fairness"

You weren't talking about the UN?

Why America did not scream about Israel occupying foreign land, but they did scream for Russia doing the same thing in SO?

Because they're hypocrites. Duh.

 

[gtc]

Look at how much is the cost of a dish of rice in rural China

So now you are changing your argument from GDP to GDP at purchasing power parity. That is moving the goal posts but lets compare this:

China - USD 5,300 (2007)
USA - USD 45,800 (2007)


Does this really help your argument?

 

[gumboot]

The United Nations are not an organization based on Mars, it is an organization controlled by few countries, basically, America, the West, and a little bit by Russia and China.
This is why we have three rounds of sanctions against Iran for keeping pursing their nuclear program and no sanction against the US for illegally going to war against Iraq.

How bizarre.

I must be deluded. I was pretty sure that all five permanent security council members had veto power. I must be wrong. It must just be the USA.

Or does the USA's veto power grant them more power than China or Russia's veto?

Question, what do you think would happen if a resolution was drafted in the security council making Russia's actions in Georgia illegal? Surely the UN, "basically America and the West" would pass it fine yes? Because Russia only has a "little bit" of control?

You're talking drivel.

The USA has precisely as much control of the UN as Russia, France, China, and the UK. No more, no less.