Runaway car - Is this feasible?

First, for that to happen, his engine has to kick his brakes' arse. Since it ain't a GTR, it ain't happening (and maybe not even there). Even if the cruise control gets stuck, and even braking doesn't cancel it, your brakes can always overpower your engine.

That's the last and final word. No ifs, ands, or buts.

That being said, it looks like that's what he had to do. A cruise control that malfunctions that badly is a very serious design flaw. Overpowering your own engine with your own brakes is a TERRIBLE idea, even if its possible. Many people in the general public are absolutely unaware that you can shift to neutral or turn off the engine while the car is in motion and panic situations are not where they're going to learn. Moreover, assuming the car refused to stop going forward unless he shifted gears (which, once again, most people don't know you can do), braking to a halt doesn't really solve the problem. Moreover, that much braking is DANGEROUS. Even with anti-lock, you have almost no ability to steer, and no ability to dodge anything.

I don't think he's a liar, the call sounds legit, and Ford is even calling it a 'one-of' flaw.

I think he's telling the truth.
 
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GreyICE said:
First, for that to happen, his engine has to kick his brakes' arse. Since it ain't a GTR, it ain't happening (and maybe not even there). Even if the cruise control gets stuck, and even braking doesn't cancel it, your brakes can always overpower your engine.
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No, got him down to 80k, he says. Then they faded.
 
a_unique_person said:
No, got him down to 80k, he says. Then they faded.
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Huh. Possible only if the pads were worn to crap, or the brake line had a failure.

I haven't had to deal with brake pads in a while (nor do I have cruise control), so I honestly don't know how much effect worn brake pads would have. The fading is consistent with low brake fluid levels. Then again, many people drive with low brake fluid, so it could be a combination of driver incompetence and massive malfunction.
 
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I can't conceive of any remotely healthy brake system failing like that unless it's as GreyICE described, or possibly a design flaw. The one thing it wouldn't be is overheating due to full throttle.

Just guessing, but I'm guessing the engine under full throttle would not even double the energy absorbed stopping. Why? You can stop faster than you can start. In any case, it's in the same ballpark as 2x a normal braking, which should be way, way under brake failure from overheating.


It's also a good argument that that ancient Audi (was it?) famous case that was on 60 Minutes wasn't true, as described. They also claimed a malfunction with the engine computer that rocketed the car ahead through a garage door and killed someone, pinning them against the wall. They produced a brake pedal that was supposedly bent from the force of her jamming her foot down. IIRC, the car company lost, even though this was engineering idiocy for much the same reason.

Note the lawyers didn't claim a delayed reaction lead to her stomping the brake pedal too late, but rather that the engine was so out of control from the buggy engine computer it overpowered, ludicrously, the brakes.

The car company maintained she stomped the gas by mistake. In any case, this case is mostly what's driven all the oddball shift levers and requirements to have the foot on the brake and in park to start the car, and the foot on the brake to shift out of park and blah blah blah.

I presume people have done scientific studies to show a decrease in the number of sudden overplowings of byfrontstanders. :rolleyes:
 
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Shrike said:
Sorry about this story. But a floor mat getting stuck is not the fault of electronics, is it?
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Obviously not. But many people weren't buying the stuck floor mat explanation. There were claims from Toyota/Lexus owners that they had unexpected acceleration when no floor mats were in the car.

Shrike said:
Yep.
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Any car built in the US (don't know about other countries), within the last 50 years or so, has a mandatory safety feature that keeps the steering wheel from locking, if you turn the key off in an emergency.

For example, an automatic transmission has an interlock that won't let the key turn far enough to lock the steering, unless the car is in park. For manual trans, you also have to push a button, in order to turn the key far enough to lock the steering.
 
GreyICE said:
Huh. Possible only if the pads were worn to crap, or the brake line had a failure.

I haven't had to deal with brake pads in a while (nor do I have cruise control), so I honestly don't know how much effect worn brake pads would have. The fading is consistent with low brake fluid levels. Then again, many people drive with low brake fluid, so it could be a combination of driver incompetence and massive malfunction.
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If he road the brakes long enough the failure would have nothing to do with fluid level or pad condition. The problem would be the brake fluid could boil. You really have to beat on the brakes to do it but, it does happen.
 
Beerina said:
IIRC, the car company lost, even though this was engineering idiocy for much the same reason.
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Litigious owners assisted by one of 60 minutes finest hours.

In 1986 "60 Minutes" turned its attack journalism on the Audi 5000, despite the fact Audi had one of the best safety records on the road. "Sudden acceleration" was the hobgoblin now, and Olson quipped that the segment presented Audis as though they had been possessed: backing into garages, darting into swimming pools, plowing into bank teller lines, doing everything but flying on a broomstick –even as drivers were standing on the brake. Audi lawyers claimed that the "expert" in the segment, William Rosenbluth, had drilled a hole in the car's transmission, and attached a hose leading to tank of compressed air or fluid. Even though the tank and attached hose were sitting on the front passenger seat of the Audi, those intrepid investigative reporters at 60 Minutes managed to keep any view of the tank off camera and out of the awareness of viewers.
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Linky

Oh and it just went on and on. I believe some cases were still outstanding in 1997. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if there was still somebody out there trying to screw another few million out of Audi.
 
screensnot said:
Obviously not. But many people weren't buying the stuck floor mat explanation. There were claims from Toyota/Lexus owners that they had unexpected acceleration when no floor mats were in the car.
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Only claims so far IIRC.
screensnot said:
Any car built in the US (don't know about other countries), within the last 50 years or so, has a mandatory safety feature that keeps the steering wheel from locking, if you turn the key off in an emergency.

For example, an automatic transmission has an interlock that won't let the key turn far enough to lock the steering, unless the car is in park. For manual trans, you also have to push a button, in order to turn the key far enough to lock the steering.
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That's not the case everywhere. Automatics have that, but not (all) manuals.
 
richardm said:
You can still steer and brake without having the engine on; it just takes more effort (a lot more, in the case of brakes, but they still work). And most cars don't have stability control anyway. So long as you kill the ignition but don't turn the key so far that the steering lock can engage, you should be fine.
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The steering wheel lock doesn't engage unless you put the transmission in "park".
 
If the brakes had faded to to the point of not working at all, they probably wouldn't have stopped the vehicle. It would take a long time for the fluid and pads/rotors to cool down to the point where the brakes would work well again.

Since the brakes did stop the vehicle, I can only conclude that they never faded very much...
 
Keep in mind that Toyota's fix does indeed involve adding brake/throttle conflict recognition to the DBW system's programming.

Something that is already a part of most modern DBW systems.
 
screensnot said:
Obviously not. But many people weren't buying the stuck floor mat explanation. There were claims from Toyota/Lexus owners that they had unexpected acceleration when no floor mats were in the car.
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Floor mats have been a problem in the past. In the late '90s Honda had to recall a number of Civics because the floor mats could shift out of position and jam the gas pedal.
Any car built in the US (don't know about other countries), within the last 50 years or so, has a mandatory safety feature that keeps the steering wheel from locking, if you turn the key off in an emergency.

For example, an automatic transmission has an interlock that won't let the key turn far enough to lock the steering, unless the car is in park. For manual trans, you also have to push a button, in order to turn the key far enough to lock the steering.
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I didn't know that was mandatory, but my '97 Civic has just such an interlock. To turn the key to the lock position the shift lever has to be in the PARK position and the key has to be pushed in and then turned.
 
ktesibios said:
I didn't know that was mandatory, but my '97 Civic has just such an interlock. To turn the key to the lock position the shift lever has to be in the PARK position and the key has to be pushed in and then turned.
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I looked hard, and can't find anything to confirm that it is mandatory. So, I guess the most I can say, is that every vehicle that I am familiar with had the safety feature.

I would also like to say, to anyone reading this, that if you aren't sure about your vehicle, you should check it out. It could be the difference between living and dying in an emergency.
 
No fault in car - police

Had to re-open this one.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/n...rol-terror-car-20100107-lwdd.html?autostart=1

A police investigation into Melbourne's runaway cruise control vehicle is finished, but it hasn't provided the answers the terrified driver was looking for.
Chase Weir, 22, was given back his 2002 Ford Explorer this week after it was impounded at the end of his white-knuckle ride on December 15 down the EastLink freeway with the cruise control apparently locked in.
Police say mechanical experts in the force's major collision unit examined the car for several weeks but determined there was no need to investigate further.
One of the lead investigators in the incident, Detective Senior Constable Paul Baggott, said he was limited in what he could publicly say, but confirmed the case was now considered closed.
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My position originally was either driver stupidity or (more likely in my opinion) hoax. This is confirmation that the car wasn't faulty.
 
The quote goes on

One of the lead investigators in the incident, Detective Senior Constable Paul Baggott, said he was limited in what he could publicly say, but confirmed the case was now considered closed.
"There's no element of criminality," he said today. "There was damage that was consistent with the events of the day."
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A hoax would be rightly prosecuted. The event put people's lives at risk and must have cost a lot of time and money.
 
Sure. The coppers are saying "no evidence", they are not saying the driver's version is correct. They can't prosecute a hoax without evidence. But I think one plank of Chris Weir's story has been kicked away, that's all.
 
lionking said:
Sure. The coppers are saying "no evidence", they are not saying the driver's version is correct. They can't prosecute a hoax without evidence. But I think one plank of Chris Weir's story has been kicked away, that's all.
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I'm more inclined to think software glitch. I've worked with computers long enough to suspect one. No piece of software is every bug free. Some of the Airbus problems I'd guess are software also.
 
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