Rumsfeld proven a liar. Twice.

"Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said today that American intelligence had "bulletproof" evidence of links between Al Qaeda and the government of President Saddam Hussein of Iraq."
New York Times, September 27th, 2002
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President Bush's national security adviser Wednesday said Saddam Hussein has sheltered al Qaeda terrorists in Baghdad and helped train some in chemical weapons development -- information she said has been gleaned from captives in the ongoing war on terrorism.

The comments by Condoleezza Rice were the strongest and most specific to date on the White House's accusations linking al Qaeda and Iraq.
...
At the same time, she cautioned that "no one is trying to make an argument at this point that Saddam Hussein somehow had operational control of what happened on September 11th, so we don't want to push this too far."
CNN
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Claim: Al Qaeda and Saddam are linked.

Claim: Saddam cannot be linked to controlling Al Qaeda.

The only way that Rumsfeld couldn't have lied is that Al Qaeda isn't blamed for 9-11.

But, wait! They are:

With the administration trying to build support at the United Nations and in Congress for possible military action against Iraq, the White House in recent days has sought to place its push to depose Saddam in the context of the war on terrorism, warning that Iraq could give nuclear, biological or chemical weapons to terrorist groups like al Qaeda -- the group responsible for the deaths of more than 3,000 Americans in four attacks September 11, 2001.
CNN
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Claim: Al Qaeda is responsible for 9-11.

This is political double-speak.

It is fascinating - and scary - to see how far war apologists will go in order to defend those responsible for the deaths of thousands of American soldiers, and many, many thousands of civilians.

Politics can be very dangerous indeed.
 
CFLarsen said:
Claim: Al Qaeda and Saddam are linked.

Claim: Saddam cannot be linked to controlling Al Qaeda.

The only way that Rumsfeld couldn't have lied is that Al Qaeda isn't blamed for 9-11.

But, wait! They are:



Claim: Al Qaeda is responsible for 9-11.

This is political double-speak.

It is fascinating - and scary - to see how far war apologists will go in order to defend those responsible for the deaths of thousands of American soldiers, and many, many thousands of civilians.

Politics can be very dangerous indeed.
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Your logic falls.
You made a claim in your opening post and have not yet provided the evidence to support your claim.
 
I wouldn't want a Secretary of Defense who couldn't lie competently. Or a President who couldn't lie competently, either.

Anyway, it is possible for Saddam Hussein to have had links to Al-Qaeda and yet have had no controlling part in Al-Qaeda's operations. Providing real estate for training camps and/or providing material assistance doesn't equate to Saddam Hussein having had anything to do with the September 11 attacks. It is a mistake to think that Al-Qaeda operates as a monolithic organization.

If Rumsfeld has lied about having said certain things in public, it should be a simple matter to find public record of those public statements. We await that evidence. Until such evidence is provided, it is not certain that Rumsfeld is a liar...as far as this topic is concerned.
 
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http://www.house.gov/reform/min/pdfs_108_2/pdfs_inves/pdf_admin_iraq_on_the_record_rep.pdf

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]
Number of Misleading Statements.​
[/FONT]The [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]Iraq on the Record [/FONT]database contains
237 misleading statements about the threat posed by Iraq that were made by
President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Secretary Rumsfeld, Secretary Powell,
and National Security Advisor Rice. These statements were made in 125 separate
appearances, consisting of 40 speeches, 26 press conferences and briefings, 53
interviews, 4 written statements, and 2 congressional testimonies. Most of the
statements in the database were misleading because they expressed certainty
where none existed or failed to acknowledge the doubts of intelligence officials.
Ten of the statements were simply false.

​
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​
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]
Statements by Secretary Rumsfeld.​
​
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Between May 22, 2002, and November 2,
2003, Secretary Rumsfeld made 52 misleading statements about the threat posed
by Iraq in 23 separate public appearances.
Some of the misleading statements by Secretary Rumsfeld include his statement
on November 14, 2002, that within “a week, or a month” Saddam Hussein could
give his weapons of mass destruction to al Qaeda, which could use them to attack
the United States and kill “30,000, or 100,000 . . . human beings”; his statement
on January 29, 2003, that Saddam Hussein’s regime “recently was discovered
seeking significant quantities of uranium from Africa”; and his statement on July
13, 2003, that there “was never any debate” about whether Iraq had a nuclear
program.

​
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​
These misleading statements have continued through at least January 2004. On
January 22, 2004, Vice President Cheney said in a National Public Radio
interview, “I think there’s overwhelming evidence that there was a connection
between al-Qaeda and the Iraqi government. . . . I’m very confident that there
was an established relationship there.”​
4 He also said in the same interview, “we
know . . . that prior to our going in that he had spent time and effort acquiring
mobile biological weapons labs, and we’re quite confident he did, in fact, have
such a program. We’ve found a couple of semi trailers at this point which we
believe were, in fact, part of that program.” As described below, both of these
assertions were misleading in that they failed to disclose the serious doubts held
by intelligence officials.

​
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​
In one instance, Secretary Rumsfeld said that Iraq could give weapons of mass
destruction to al Qaeda in “a week, or a month,” resulting in the deaths of up to
100,000 people. On November 14, 2002, Secretary Rumsfeld stated:
Now, transport yourself forward a year, two years, or a week, or a month,
and if Saddam Hussein were to take his weapons of mass destruction and
transfer them, either use them himself, or transfer them to the Al-Qaeda,
and somehow the Al-Qaeda were to engage in an attack on the United
States, or an attack on U.S. forces overseas, with a weapon of mass
destruction you’re not talking about 300, or 3,000 people potentially being
killed, but 30,000, or 100,000 . . . human beings.”​
11

​
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​
Despite these uncertainties among the intelligence officials, the five
Administration officials made 45 misleading statements in 35 appearances about
Iraq’s possession of chemical or biological weapons. Often these statements were
misleading because they projected certainty about their claims. Secretary Powell,
for example, claimed, “there is no doubt in our mind that he still has chemical
weapons stocks.”​
60 Secretary Rumsfeld stated: “He has at this moment
stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons.”61 Vice President Cheney
asserted: “We know they have biological and chemical weapons.”62 And
President Bush said bluntly, “he’s got them.”63

​
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It is a lie alright. Take a statement by the intelligence forces, remove the ambiguity, and you have a lie.​

[/FONT]
 
Rob Lister said:
I have. Here, I'll do it again...

Refer to your opening post.

Link to a transcript of rummy making that claim.

You can't strawman your way out of that.
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Come on, Rob. These tapes have been all over the news. But since you insist, Here is a link to a transcript of where Rumsfeld made those statements. Perhaps you can trust it because it is the Pentagon.
 
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Tricky said:
Come on, Rob. These tapes have been all over the news. But since you insist, Here is a link to a transcript of where Rumsfeld made those statements. Perhaps you can trust it because it is the Pentagon.
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Perhaps you can quote the part of that transcript where Rummy claims Saddam had something to do with 9/11

Doesn't seem to be there.

So, for Clause

Refer to your opening post.

Link to a transcript of rummy making that claim.

You can't strawman your way out of that.

I'll help

(Woman) You said about a year ago, that there was bullet-proof evidence, that Saddam Hu...of links between Saddam Hussein and the September 11th attacks. When will the American public see that sort of evidence?

Donald Rumsfeld: I did not say that. And whoever said I said it, is wrong.
The National Press Club, September 10, 2003

Clause: According to the New York Times, September he did say it, on September 27th, 2002. A month later, he admitted saying it.

Oops.

Oops indeed, CFL. Please link to Donald admitting he said that.
 
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Rob Lister said:
Perhaps you can quote the part of that transcript where Rummy claims Saddam had something to do with 9/11[/I]
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(Cough)

If you could be honest for a moment.

Rummy claims Saddam is linked to Al Qaeda.

Correct?
 
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