Rules on Smoking - Too Strict?

[A Laughing Baby]

The e-cig disallowance is the only one I would take issue with, especially since they were designed to allow smokers to enjoy their habit without bothering others--and be allowed to "smoke" in non-smoking areas. That's even a selling point they put in their ads.

 

[23_Tauri]

Have some stats on the number of asthmatics killed by second-hand cigarette smoke?

Seeing as it's never been demonstrated that anyone has died of second hand smoke, or even that exposure to second hand smoke increases the risk of disease, I doubt irony can show you any stats on this, Al.

Yup, the smoking nazis on this thread are gonna scream "evidence!" at me, I know. I'll dig some studies out tomorrow but in the meantime anyone interested can read the passive smoking thread from last year.

 

[Stray Cat]

*must not get involved in another smoking thread, must not get involved in another smoking thread, must not get involved.... damn it!!!

 

[GlennB]

Those who find the stench of cigarette smoke out on the street unpleasant have almost certainly just walked through a haze of filthy vehicle exhaust fumes, without passing comment. Fumes that stink them up and damage their health just as much as the cig smoke. But equally. So's you don't notice.

Go figure.

 

[Irony]

Seeing as it's never been demonstrated that anyone has died of second hand smoke, or even that exposure to second hand smoke increases the risk of disease, I doubt irony can show you any stats on this, Al.

Yup, the smoking nazis on this thread are gonna scream "evidence!" at me, I know. I'll dig some studies out tomorrow but in the meantime anyone interested can read the passive smoking thread from last year.

I did bother to look it up (which takes time, oh insulting one), and I haven't found a study as of yet. I did find one medical case, but that's it. So for now, I retract that particular side-issue.

As for your claim that no one has shown second-hand smoke increases the risk of disease. linky

 

[sadhatter]

Walking through a crowd of people chewing gum will not make me spend the next minute attempting to hack out my lungs. That's one thing smokers never seemed to have the least bit of consideration for, some people just plain can't tolerate smoke. Not as in "I don't like it", but as in "it physically sickens me". Hell, I'm lucky. At least there's no real chance it would kill me, unlike with some asthmatics.

And chewed up wads of gum sicken me, in quite a literal sense. I have dry heaved upon placing my hand in gum. Something gum chewers seem to gleefully disregard.

It is funny, you never see anyone complain about the asthmatics who could apparently die from a puff of smoke within 10 feet of a door, when the subject is automobiles. The standard response would be along the lines of " if a puff of smoke from a car would kill them, it is their responsibility to avoid it. ". Yet you make it a personal habit and suddenly it is think of the children, with the asthmatics.

 

[MatildaGage]

There are a couple of rules that are being re-enforced here at my office building. Both of which I think are dumb. I wanted to see if maybe I was being out of line by thinking so:

1). The entrance way to my office has an awning. During the winter months, or when it's raining in the warmer months, the smoker folks tend to congregate under the awning to stay out of the elements. Apparently, there have been some complaints from anonymous non-smokers saying that it's BS that they have to "walk through a cloud of smoke" to enter the building (which is a gross over-exaggeration). So now the smokers must stand 100 feet away from the entranceway and stay away from the awning. Now smokers have no choice but to stand in the rain/snow/wind to enjoy their cancer-stick. This effects me somewhat directly as you'll see in rant #2, but even if it didn't, I think this rule is stupid. There never is "a cloud of smoke" because, even though it's under an awning, it's outside. There is always some level of a breeze to carry the smoke away. And the smokers tend to stay off in the corner away from the doors, so this is just some idiot(s) complaining for the sake of complaining and getting their own way. How can anyone regulate smoking if you're outside. It just drives me crazy.

"Cloud" might be an exaggeration but there are fairly compelling reasons to restrict it outdoors.

Smoking is not a legal right nor is it a need. Breathing clean air is a legal right and it is a biological need. Hence breathing clean air takes precedence.

Regardless of the annoyance related to the stench, there is no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke. It has chemicals that are, when viewed singly, banned in the workplace. Employers are expected to protect employees from those chemicals in other forms. I don't see it as a stretch at all for them to protect employees from them when burning.

2). I recently quit smoking, but now I use an e-cig. E-cigs are nothing more than nicotine and water vapor. A group of about 8 of us all got one around the same time and we would enjoy them right at our desks. They don't smell like cigarettes at all...in fact...some of my neighbors in the cube farm love the smell of them because I have flavors like Coffee, French Toast, Maple Syrup, and Spearmint. They really are enjoyable. Well, now, we aren't allowed to do that either. The excuse? It's "unprofessional". I work in a call center. We never see a client...the client never sees us. But somehow, inhaling water vapor is somehow unprofessional. So now I have to go outside if I want to enjoy my e-cig. On top of that, I can't stand under the awning because it "looks" like we're smoking.

That's really your employer's business. My employer requires pantyhose with sandals, which I totally hate too, but it is what it is.

Also, do you have any evidence proving the ingredients and safety of your e-cigs? I know a scientist who analyzed the alleged "only nicotine and water" ones and he found lots of dangerous chemicals in them, none of which have been tested for safety in steam format. How do you know your sidestream steam is safe for your coworkers to breathe?

 

[A Laughing Baby]

And yet, none of the arguments here for smoking have anything to do with the fact that it's a private business and can make its own decisions regarding these policies (provided they're compliant with all regulations).

 

[sadhatter]

Really? How often does the scent of gum linger on your person when standing next to a chewer?

The chewer is usually long gone by the time you sit in , step on, or rest your arm upon the wad of gum. Leaving the scene of the crime does not make it better.

 

[sadhatter]

Eh. Used gum sucks...but I dunno if I wanna try to use that argument against smoking. Used gum isn't exactly a hazard like 2nd hand smoke.

That being said...my gripe has to do with weather vs. location mostly. I don't expect to be allowed to smoke indoors...that I agree is unfair to those around me. However, my non-smoking co-workers do not go outside to take their breaks when the weather is crappy. I don't see the problem with allowing smoking under the awning in the cases of rain, snow, cold and/or high winds. If the weather is at all favorable, then kick the smokers to the parking lot. I see it as a pretty reasonable compromise.

Oh i completely agree, the days of smoking in malls, hospitals , etc, were insane. That i can completely understand, no one should have to sit in a blue clouded room and inhale that concentrated amount of smoke. The same way people should not be able to chew gum in public places ( in case that came off as sarcastic, no it is legitimate. I wouldn't smoke inside a work floor, mall, etc, and i would expect gum chewers to show the same courtesy. ) , keep habits that tend to cause mess and unpleasentness for those not doing them to a specific area.

But in situations like yours, and a bit moreso here. To say that an outdoor smoking area cannot have walls ( why are you going in there if you don't smoke?) , or that you must be 100 feet away from the door. ( 5-15 maybe, depending on if an awning can be reached.) is what is going overboard. At that point is when smoking and chewing gum become on the same level. Getting near a puff of smoke when it is raining ( which is usually when awning space becomes a hot smoker commodity.) , or snowing, outside, from 15 feet away, is not going to kill anyone. And if it would kill a medically fragile person, I have to ask how they get around in a society with so many cars.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

I don't have hard numbers here, but I'm pretty certain I've inhaled cigarette smoke WAY more in my life than I've stepped/sat/rest my arm in chewing gum.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Those who find the stench of cigarette smoke out on the street unpleasant have almost certainly just walked through a haze of filthy vehicle exhaust fumes, without passing comment. Fumes that stink them up and damage their health just as much as the cig smoke. But equally. So's you don't notice.

Go figure.

You are incorrect.

 

[sadhatter]

I don't have hard numbers here, but I'm pretty certain I've inhaled cigarette smoke WAY more in my life than I've stepped/sat/rest my arm in chewing gum.

But when your near it ( and keep in mind i am not defending it in the workplace, or any enclosed area, just within a reasonable 10 feet from a doorway, possibly relaxed a bit if it is raining and there is a lack of awning.) from ten feet away, walking in a door, you are in direct contact with it , briefly, in a diluted state, for a second or two. Chewed gum on the other hand is an adventure to get out of anything it gets into. And this isn't even taking into account the amount of machines, both arcade and otherwise, gum chewers decide they can vandalize with their refuse.

I mean if you would like i have an arcade machine i bought last year that i have half scraped free of gum, and there is still a small mountain worth of the stuff. Have you ever walked by a cigarette from 5-10 feet away, when it is raining, and it has stayed forever? Each vice has its attributes, gum has the staying power, smoking has more of an effect off of the bat.

 

[John Jones]

[...]My office is obviously privately owned and smoking is most certainly not allowed indoors (and I completely understand that it should be that way)...but seriously, can the building owners really regulate smoking outside as well? It's pretty damn irritating that smokers have to jump through hoops to kill themselves...

They sure can. Most places where I live have banned smoking on their property. People have to step-out into or across the street to smoke.

Most of the complaints have been about a bunch of smokers loafing outside every half-hour, huddled around an ashtray while everyone else has to wait for a scheduled break.

The company's motivation is clear: they are trying to force you to stop smoking - or leave.

I say this as a 30-year smoker - the change is here. It's not that hard to wait until I get home.

I don't even take a lighter to work anymore, much less any cigarettes.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

Well, that would explain it. The last time I was in an arcade, I was 11 years old.

 

[sadhatter]

You are incorrect.

Something to back that up might be nice, something showing car exhaust isn't harmful perhaps? As someone who walks a lot i can tell you i notice high traffic days pretty easily off of the bat.

 

[Irony]

Something to back that up might be nice, something showing car exhaust isn't harmful perhaps? As someone who walks a lot i can tell you i notice high traffic days pretty easily off of the bat.

Please don't use straw-men. "Not as harmful as tobacco smoke" and "isn't harmful" are two very different things.

 

[sadhatter]

Well, that would explain it. The last time I was in an arcade, I was 11 years old.

thanks for the veiled insult instead of a point.

Gum gets stuck to more than just arcade machines, and you knew that. Desks, chairs, elevator walls, elevator button pads, railings, do i really need to go over the entire list? And usually it is there for very long periods of time turning into darn near a part of the scenery. I used the arcade machine as an available example that i could provide (rather disgusting ) photos of the decades old gum stuck to it.

If you have a counter point i would welcome it.

 

[sadhatter]

Please don't use straw-men. "Not as harmful as tobacco smoke" and "isn't harmful" are two very different things.

My city goes through days in which the air quality is so bad healthy individuals are told not to go outside. I have never seen people smoke up so much of a storm that a place gets shut down on the other hand. Again it is not an issue of who is worse, it is an issue of both are doing bad things. If automobile exhaust was just south of harmless, okay you would have a point, but as we both know that is not the case, as a healthy person , living in a city of only about 80,000 people there are days i won't walk around the city.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

thanks for the veiled insult instead of a point.

Gum gets stuck to more than just arcade machines, and you knew that. Desks, chairs, elevator walls, elevator button pads, railings, do i really need to go over the entire list? And usually it is there for very long periods of time turning into darn near a part of the scenery. I used the arcade machine as an available example that i could provide (rather disgusting ) photos of the decades old gum stuck to it.

If you have a counter point i would welcome it.

To respond to an anecdote with an anecdote, it has been months since I've seen gum stuck anywhere other than the parking lot of my local walmart. It's been even longer since I've even seen someone chewing gum (the last time I saw it was when I was in grad school). And forgive me for an appeal to emotion here, but I'm pretty sure that both of my grandfathers didn't die before I was born from chewing gum.

Gum's annoying, sure, but it's not really in the same sort of ballpark with cigarettes. You're really comparing apples to oranges. Why stop there? You might want to include people who chew toothpicks/straws, eat tic-tacs nonstop, and suck lollipops (and leave the gross sticks behind on desks and the like).