Rouser's thought processes

[Rolfe]

Hmm so Rolfe, you are saying the radiation physics technician did not wash off the radiation on my shoe? And I was
hallucinating. Thanks for that. I suyggest you begin by starting to read all he health physicsts manuals and procedures you can find and get back to us.

Sigh. What these other guys said.

Steve, I'm saying that the technician washed off the radioactive material you'd picked up on your shoe (sock, whatever). Just like washing off dog poop you'd stepped on in the street.

The Geiger counter detects radiation, which was being emitted by the "dog poop". Once there was no radiation detectable, the technician knew that he'd succeeded in getting it all off.

If the actual material of your shoe had been transformed into a radiation emitter (which is impossible under these circumstances anyway), it would not have been possible to wash it off.

The technician may have said that your shoe had become radioactive, but this is just sloppy use of language. Think dog poop again. You may say that your shoe has become smelly, but in fact your shoe has become smeared with a smelly substance. It hasn't turned into dog poop.

Your shoe registered on a Geiger counter because some radioactive isotope had splashed on it, then registered negative after this contaminating material had been washed off. This has absolutely nothing to do with the subject under discussion.

Posting quotes which refer to completely different situations where bombardment of a material does cause a nuclear reaction has nothing to do with it either. Maybe you should go have a look at some physics text-books?

Steve, this isn't so hard. It's an easy misapprehension to make. But it's also quite easy to understand the real situation - and the fact that there is unanimity among people who actually know about this type of physics work should perhaps indicate to you that they may be right. What's the problem with just saying, oh, I misunderstood?

Rolfe.

 

[wayrad]

I think he has "gotten it" by now, actually. I really do wonder about the safety procedures at the place where he was, though. If he got his film fogged, he must have picked up a dose (which, as he should have noticed, didn't make his film, his camera, his hands, or even his other foot radioactive!). In an area that hot, or if there was any possibility of splashing (I'm thinking along the lines of something like a disassembly basin for underwater storage of spent fuel, waiting for shipment offsite), nobody should have been out there without a lot more protection and training than Steve describes. And I can't imagine letting a visitor get exposed.

At the facility where I worked, we had safety procedures drilled into us, with several hours a month of mandatory training. And I was in a nonsecure area, with little or no exposure. Anybody who caused a safety violation was lucky if they only underwent enough remedial training to wish they'd never been born. And I can only shudder as I imagine how much security has probably tightened up since 9/11.

 

[Rolfe]

I think he has "gotten it" by now, actually.

Maybe. Of course, if he has, he'll never actually say so. He seems to think there's some sort of taboo on admitting you were mistaken. Sad, really.

You're right, their safety procedures sound pretty flaky. However, maybe there's a bit more to it than Steve's telling us. And maybe the ensuing fuss was bigger than he's saying too.

I wonder where Rouser went? Oh well. I see the "Rouser is relatively bright and is only playing with us" option didn't get much support, which was what I was mainly interested in.

Rolfe.

 

[BillHoyt]

I think he has "gotten it" by now, actually.

Has he? Look at the last two quoted passages he posted. One discusses chemical changes that he seems to confound with atomic changes. The other discusses both chemical changes and radiation poisoning. Apparently he seems to think these are evidence of x-rays turing his clothing radioactive.

 

[wayrad]

Has he? Look at the last two quoted passages he posted. One discusses chemical changes that he seems to confound with atomic changes. The other discusses both chemical changes and radiation poisoning. Apparently he seems to think these are evidence of x-rays turing his clothing radioactive.

Could be, but then he said this:

So some radioactive substance fell into my shoe and contaminated the shoe cover, the leather bottom of the shoe, the sock and the bottom of my foot. I am perplexed why it didnt contaminate the inside of the shoe but apparently it didn't.
They clearly obtained positive readings from the bottom of the shoe, the sock and the bottom of my foot.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting. As Rolfe says, we may never know. I wonder sometimes whether Steve doesn't read the stuff he quotes, or misunderstands it, or thinks nobody else will understand it.

 

[Rolfe]

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting. As Rolfe says, we may never know. I wonder sometimes whether Steve doesn't read the stuff he quotes, or misunderstands it, or thinks nobody else will understand it.

You may well be right. I had interpreted that as being understood to be prefixed with "So what you're saying is that....", because he'd explicitly denied this interpretation earlier, but it could be an oblique way of admitting the penny finally dropped.

Reminds me of the homoeopathy argument from last autumn,when Steve argued till he was blue in the face in favour of the proposition that homoeopathy was a valid discipline, apparently by redefining "homoeopathy" to mean any dilution which still has an appreciable amount of substance left in it. When he finally got the point about increasing dilutions equating to increasing potency, and that "real" homoeopathy is almost exclusively about content-free preparations (unless you're Hans Weitbrecht trying to be funny), he didn't admit he now understood or anything that simple, he just sloped off in silence, then remarked some time later on another thread that he was pretty sure homoeopathy was bunk.

This leopard isn't going to change its spots in a hurry.

Now, where's Rouser?

Rolfe.

 

[BillHoyt]

Now, where's Rouser?

First, locate the first leopard. Then, second cave to the left.

 

[geni]

It is very simple. Rouser is a P-zombie

 

[wayrad]

... but it could be an oblique way of admitting the penny finally dropped.

Perhaps the penny dropped a long time ago, quite literally...

 

[Rolfe]

I just felt like bumping this, considering.

Rolfe.

 

[epepke]

Frankly, I think it's simpler than that. I've seen it several times.

Modern medicine is very imperfect. It does a lot of things wrong, and some people are hurt by it.

If one has an average brain, one can look at the overall effect of modern medicine and conclude that, on whole, it's better than the alternative.

If one has a better-than-average brain, one can look a modern medicine and think about where it's weak and where it's strong and even try to figure out how to make it better. People with better-than-average brains can simultaneously deal with the fact that the ten or so cases of polio in the US are all caused by the oral vaccine but still compare this with the pre-vaccine days when in every neighborhood, a kid or two would be crippled with polio.

However, if one has a poorer-than-average brain, then there is a problem with storage and representation of ideas. It takes a lot of bits to understand medicine. It takes few to have a stereotypical opinion. So those with few will find stereotypes more appealing.

Some of the people with few bits to spare will have had bad experiences with medicine, either personally or in family members or by reading polemics. For those people, the uncontrovertable fact that medicine is imperfect must be given an answer represented by a 1 or a 0. It's not possible to represent the idea that medicine does some good things and some bad, because that requires more than one bit, and bits are in short supply. Therefore, modern medicine has to be declared bad or good. If it is declared bad, then by simple logic (which requires no storage beyond the ability to do logic), then anything other than modern medicine must be declared good, because it is ~modern-medicine.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Oh. I see this thread has long since gone off topic.

On the original topic: I voted planet X because none of the other options fit my opinion. I think Rouser2, like 1inchChrist and Kumar, is a missionaire. Rouser2 wants to discredit medical science. Why exactly he wants that, I have no idea, it could be some personal vendetta, but he is willing to use any means he can find, including lies. Most people believe they are smarter then most others, so Rouser2 assumes that he can fool us with his hyperbole. For him it is simply propaganda. He may belive some of it, but that is not important. Like all prophets, he only wants to show the way, not walk it. The day he gets that appendicitis, you'll find him flat on his back on an operating table.

Hans

 

[Rolfe]

Oh. I see this thread has long since gone off topic.

Yeah, I know, I just thought it was peripherally relevant, and we might drag it back on-topic. Besides, Steve Grenard and the radioactive dog turd was fun to re-read. (I think it was only when I read that and realised how fundamental his lack of scientific comprehension was, that I properly appreciated the lack of brain cells behind that creduloid as well.)

Rolfe.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Well, any thread with such a self-contradicting title is bound to be derailed.

Rouser2's thought processes, indeed .

Hans

 

[Dragon]

Yeah, I know, I just thought it was peripherally relevant, and we might drag it back on-topic. Besides, Steve Grenard and the radioactive dog turd was fun to re-read. (I think it was only when I read that and realised how fundamental his lack of scientific comprehension was, that I properly appreciated the lack of brain cells behind that creduloid as well.)

Rolfe.

Ha! Newbie! Way back when (well, 3 years ago?) Grenard posted some guff about testing a homeopathic dilution with an electrical current of some sort. As soon as someone who actually knew something about electricity got involved (in this case Diezel, who is an electrical engineer), the depths of Grenard's ignorance became apparent to all. Sadly the thread was deleted in "The Great Cull". Also sadly, Diezel hardly ever posts these days.