Rosemary Altea

[T'ai Chi]

One wonders if his director was trying to bail him out or run him through by posting the photo of the abductor (short-haired, bearded white dude) after Sylvia's description (hispanic dude with long dredlocks) and King's insightful assessment that she nailed it!

Maybe he got a hair cut?

 

[T'ai Chi]

Altea definitely got the better exchanges.

Even if Randi is technically correct, he won't win if he comes off as angry, fingerpointing, and confrontational. Unfortunately for skepticism, his 'angry' schtick cannot be reversed since he's done it for so long.

 

[ERGONER]

Altea definitely got the better exchanges.

Even if Randi is technically correct, he won't win if he comes off as angry, fingerpointing, and confrontational. Unfortunately for skepticism...

...yup, however it is a small victory for Randi to even be an 'equal' guest in a half-hour segment. Randi only got about a third of Altea's permitted speaking-time -- but it was enough to calmly get his basic point across to a generally dim TV audience.

Larry King and his standard audience are, of course, true-believers in all this supernatural hogwash.

 

[CFLarsen]

Ok, so you're brainwashed.

No, that's exactly what Randi said. Why does it make people "brainwashed" to accurately quote what Randi says?

What Randi says is things like

"I simply do not find any evidence whatsoever that they do, so I don't believe there are any."

He certainly doesn't believe many things exist.

Why should he?

Altea definitely got the better exchanges.

I disagree. It was clear that she was dodging Randi's points. Why wouldn't she simply say "yes" or "no" to whether she would take the challenge? She came off as glib and condescending.

Even if Randi is technically correct, he won't win if he comes off as angry, fingerpointing, and confrontational. Unfortunately for skepticism, his 'angry' schtick cannot be reversed since he's done it for so long.

If Randi is "angry", it is because he doesn't like seeing people being scammed by people like Altea.

It is people like you who allow psychics to continue scamming other people. You are quite alright with that.

 

[NewMusic_Jenn]

I don't know about anyone else but I found that one of the most egregious comments she made was something to the effect that this boradcast was "NOT ALL ABOUT YOU JAMES!". How is Randi calling her on being a fraud - and asking her to prove that which she (indirectly) condems SB for doing - about him?! It really just proved her desperation to avoid million dollar challenge question.

 

[T'ai Chi]

IIt really just proved her desperation to avoid million dollar challenge question.

Actually, you're not being too fair to Altea here. She has already made her views known.

"ALTEA: Well, I don't think that that is a way of proving, quite frankly, and... "

She simply doesn't consider a challenge and PR campaign by an organization in the skeptical movement a valid test.

"ALTEA: I'm not sure. I'm not saying yes, I'm not saying no. I'm saying I'm not sure, because you know, many years ago, Larry, I had a very bad experience with some scientists who tested me, and tested me and tested me, and tested me. And every time I gave them something, they went away saying, "wow!" And then, a week later, two weeks later, they came back and said, "it's not enough.""

She's been down the testing route before, by actual scientists, and didn't care for the process. What makes you think testing, by non scientists, would be better or different?

"KING: Now, Rosemary was saying to me during the break that she doesn't think there's any way anybody could get your million because you have set up a condition that's impossible. "

And she opines that the conditions are impossible.

All of this is good reason why she ignores Randi's Yes or No bullying in the recent exchange; becuase she's addressed his stuff before.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Actually, you're not being too fair to Altea here. She has already made her views known.

"ALTEA: Well, I don't think that that is a way of proving, quite frankly, and... "

She simply doesn't consider a challenge and PR campaign by an organization in the skeptical movement a valid test.

"ALTEA: I'm not sure. I'm not saying yes, I'm not saying no. I'm saying I'm not sure, because you know, many years ago, Larry, I had a very bad experience with some scientists who tested me, and tested me and tested me, and tested me. And every time I gave them something, they went away saying, "wow!" And then, a week later, two weeks later, they came back and said, "it's not enough.""

She's been down the testing route before, by actual scientists, and didn't care for the process. What makes you think testing, by non scientists, would be better or different?

"KING: Now, Rosemary was saying to me during the break that she doesn't think there's any way anybody could get your million because you have set up a condition that's impossible. "

And she opines that the conditions are impossible.

All of this is good reason why she ignores Randi's Yes or No bullying in the recent exchange; becuase she's addressed his stuff before.

If ". . .I don't think that that is a way of proving . . . ", why should anyone believe it exists?

I'm reminded of Thurber's "There's a Unicorn in the Garden" for some reason. Who's the booby?

A test for Ms Altea's "abilities" has to preclude the possibility of her using cold and hot reading. Entertainers such as Ian Rowland have, can, and do achive the same results as "psychics" through perfectly explainable means.

If she is anything more than deluded or a fraud, she just has to demonstrate the ability to do what she says she does.

 

[SkeptiKilt]

She has not addressed "Randi's stuff" before, she's avoided addressing it. Sit down and say what you can do, agree to how it can be tested, and agree on what will be accepted as passing the test. Then take the test. Anything else is weaseling out of the challenge.

 

[NewMusic_Jenn]

Actually, you're not being too fair to Altea here. She has already made her views known.

"ALTEA: Well, I don't think that that is a way of proving, quite frankly, and... "

She simply doesn't consider a challenge and PR campaign by an organization in the skeptical movement a valid test.

"ALTEA: I'm not sure. I'm not saying yes, I'm not saying no. I'm saying I'm not sure, because you know, many years ago, Larry, I had a very bad experience with some scientists who tested me, and tested me and tested me, and tested me. And every time I gave them something, they went away saying, "wow!" And then, a week later, two weeks later, they came back and said, "it's not enough.""

She's been down the testing route before, by actual scientists, and didn't care for the process. What makes you think testing, by non scientists, would be better or different?

"KING: Now, Rosemary was saying to me during the break that she doesn't think there's any way anybody could get your million because you have set up a condition that's impossible. "

And she opines that the conditions are impossible.

All of this is good reason why she ignores Randi's Yes or No bullying in the recent exchange; becuase she's addressed his stuff before.

There was a lot more dancing before she made her points about previous scientific tests. She also made comments that she doesn't believe there's a millions dollars, the test criteria was wrong, blah blah blah...

She still takes advantage of people by taking money from those desperate for help. And of course she didn't care for an actual scientific process in the past! There's never been any proof of supernatural abilities - if there were they wouldn't be supernatural.

And I didn't find Randi to be a bully at all - he was direct and strong. Why not call people on claimed abilities? If I tell you I can do something then refuse to ever prove it for a guaranteed million dollars then I'm either nuts or I can't really do what I say I can. The fact that she has previously stated her viewpoint doesn’t mean she shouldn’t continue to be challenged on bogus claims!

 

[Marmaduke]

ALTEA: I'm not sure. I'm not saying yes, I'm not saying no. I'm saying I'm not sure, because you know, many years ago, Larry, I had a very bad experience with some scientists who tested me, and tested me and tested me, and tested me. And every time I gave them something, they went away saying, "wow!" And then, a week later, two weeks later, they came back and said, "it's not enough.

Did she say what the test criteria was, where she was tested and by whom?

 

[DRBUZZ0]

She has not addressed "Randi's stuff" before, she's avoided addressing it. Sit down and say what you can do, agree to how it can be tested, and agree on what will be accepted as passing the test. Then take the test. Anything else is weaseling out of the challenge.

Yep. Interesting how this doesn't come up as often in other challenges. For example, the X-prize foundation. You never saw too many saying "Well, sure we could build a spacecraft, but the X-prize committee has the final say and they say that they want reliable instrument data that shows an acceptable altitude, but they don't define 'reliable' they also say that they want to go to 50 miles altitude, but they don't say whether they mean above sea level or above the ground or what. Also, we don't even know if they have the money. So while we *could* build a spacecraft to take the challenge... we're not even going to bother, because we know they'll just cheat us in the end"

 

[Questioninggeller]

Yes, he is. Saying Shawn Hornbeck's kidnapper had long hair...in what universe?!?!?!

That was funny. She didn't just say "long," Browne said "very long hair."

On a side note, Altea is a lot more chubbier than when Penn & Teller busted her. Maybe being caught hot reading on TV caused her some stress?

 

[Questioninggeller]

Send Larry King/CNN your thoughts: http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?12

 

[CFLarsen]

Actually, you're not being too fair to Altea here. She has already made her views known.

"ALTEA: Well, I don't think that that is a way of proving, quite frankly, and... "

She simply doesn't consider a challenge and PR campaign by an organization in the skeptical movement a valid test.

She doesn't consider any test "valid". Why do you let psychics off the hook, T'ai Chi? Why are you defending these scam artists who cheat grieving people?

"ALTEA: I'm not sure. I'm not saying yes, I'm not saying no. I'm saying I'm not sure, because you know, many years ago, Larry, I had a very bad experience with some scientists who tested me, and tested me and tested me, and tested me. And every time I gave them something, they went away saying, "wow!" And then, a week later, two weeks later, they came back and said, "it's not enough.""

She's been down the testing route before, by actual scientists, and didn't care for the process. What makes you think testing, by non scientists, would be better or different?

You are always the first to point to the importance of scientific testing in a lab, yet you let Altea get away so easily? Why?

"KING: Now, Rosemary was saying to me during the break that she doesn't think there's any way anybody could get your million because you have set up a condition that's impossible. "

And she opines that the conditions are impossible.

What you "forget", is that she opines that the conditions are impossible because she knows that she will fail, because she can't talk to dead people.

All of this is good reason why she ignores Randi's Yes or No bullying in the recent exchange; becuase she's addressed his stuff before.

No, she has avoided Randi's stuff before. That's why Randi was so insisting. But you think what Altea is doing is fully acceptable.

 

[NiallM]

Thank you so much for your work, Lisa.

It's greatly appreciated. I get some US channels here in Paris, but not very many. I really enjoyed watching this.

 

[jon]

Thanks for the vid Lisa.

Re. Randi coming across as angry/confrontational, the exchange looked pretty cool to me. Surprisingly so, if anything - they were talking about Sylvia Browne doing a few things: telling a family, incorrectly, that their missing kid was dead; giving false information to those looking for the kid; there's also allegations that she tried to get money - lots of money - off the grieving family. If a politician, journalist or cop did this, the public would be baying for blood. Why are 'psychics' let off so easily?

Hopefully the new Challenge will let JREF give these 'psychics' very regular opportunities to prove their powers - or, of course, to publically explain why they're weaselling out of taking the challenge

 

[Moochie]

I thought Mr. Randy came across as forceful and forthright, almost the complete opposite of Ms. Altea.

I think he managed to get a chuckle out of some of the off-camera staff, too.

Thank you very much for posting that, Lisa. It is appreciated.

M.

 

[Verde]

Thanks, Lisa, for putting that together.

I try and avoid Larry King, just as I try and avoid stepping on dog poop on the sidewalk, but had I known that this was to be discussed I would have made a point of watching. I'm not on the secret warning list, obviously.

I thought that Randi came across very well; however Ms Altea also managed to project quite a pleasant persona.[1] I would not be surprised if the average LK viewer came away with the impression that it was merely two persons with different views agreeing to disagree.

Any exposure is a good thing, but Larry's milque-toast approach is not likely to win any converts. I am really looking forward to the JREF bringing out the heavy armour this spring.

Verde

[1] whilst washing the hog, so to speak.[2]
[2] just my personal opinion, of course.

 

[DRBUZZ0]

I thought Mr. Randy came across as forceful and forthright, almost the complete opposite of Ms. Altea.

I think he managed to get a chuckle out of some of the off-camera staff, too.

Thank you very much for posting that, Lisa. It is appreciated.

M.

He did. I could almost hear the call screeners eyes rolling. Well not really...but a chuckle just the same

 

[prewitt81]

Randi missed an opportunity to ask Rosemary how one could tell a genuine psychic from a fraud. I would've loved to hear her answer to that.