Roseanne Barr on Hillary For President

[Brainster]

As for insightful, I don't think her opinion is any great revelation or epiphany, but I do find it at least a little insightful. Do you think her idea is not insightful because it's wrong, or because it's too obvious to qualify as insight, or some other reason?

Anyway, who cares about your disdain for Roseanne Barr?

Barr's an idiot about politics. As others have pointed out, she gets her opinions from Alex Jones and is a 9-11 Truther. Any insight she might have is completely accidental. The most interesting thing about that article is the deference with which the writer treats her; of course that says a lot more about the writer than it does about Roseanne.

What about the idea itself? Do you agree that Hillary is significant as an establishment candidate, rather than as a woman candidate? Do you think she can be both? Do you wish she was more one or the other?

I suspect a lot of feminists would say they're pleased that a woman is now seen as an "establishment candidate".

 

[maxpower1227]

I suppose when viewed from Alex Jones crazy town, both parties do look the same.

 

[Butter!]

I suppose when viewed from Alex Jones crazy town, both parties do look the same.

Yeah. Eeeeeeevil. And probably controlled by Joos, as well.

 

[theprestige]

Barr's an idiot about politics. As others have pointed out, she gets her opinions from Alex Jones and is a 9-11 Truther. Any insight she might have is completely accidental. The most interesting thing about that article is the deference with which the writer treats her; of course that says a lot more about the writer than it does about Roseanne.

Fair enough.

I suspect a lot of feminists would say they're pleased that a woman is now seen as an "establishment candidate".

Well, it's not like Hillary Clinton is the first woman to emerge on the national political stage. Many of her predecessors have been establishment candidates as well, so it's not really a new thing. She is forging new ground by being a woman candidate for president(?), but has there really ever been a serious woman candidate for president that wasn't an establishment candidate?

 

[Brainster]

Well, it's not like Hillary Clinton is the first woman to emerge on the national political stage. Many of her predecessors have been establishment candidates as well, so it's not really a new thing. She is forging new ground by being a woman candidate for president(?), but has there really ever been a serious woman candidate for president that wasn't an establishment candidate?

There was another serious woman candidate for president? Help me out here, because I am drawing a blank.

 

[theprestige]

There was another serious woman candidate for president? Help me out here, because I am drawing a blank.

That's my point. Maybe feminists would say "they're pleased that a woman is now seen as an "establishment candidate". But that's not really such a big deal, since women have been seen as establishment candidates in national politics for a long time already. And even in her presidential aspirations, there's never been a point when Hillary wasn't seen as an establishment candidate.

In fact, I suspect that most feminists wouldn't be too pleased to have another woman establishment candidate. I think the impulse will be in the other direction: to portray Hillary as a revolutionary feminist candidate--something new under the sun, not just another 4-8 years of the same male-dominated political establishment with a female figurehead this time 'round.

 

[maxpower1227]

Candidate for the nomination, perhaps?

 

[Joey McGee]

I've always been slightly jealous of people who can get their socks rocked to that degree by religious foolishness. I absolutely require substances and/or excellent sex to even come close. And obtaining either of those things requires work, which I hate.

Oh what about those poor nuns who are spiritually married to Jesus? I bet you that they have some wet dreams... and the opposite... When I was a kid I found this book at a garage sale and it mentioned serious investigations of nuns being "attacked" by an incubus, some very serious psychic investigators included some quite graphic descriptions of their reports. My point is, with the capacity for bliss comes the capacity for utter terror and torture... Like, imagine you really believed that you're being raped by demons, that must be awful! A religiously brainwashed woman having nightmares during sleep paralysis further terrorized by religion and "ghost hunting" kooks! Needless to say, I wish that arse burned that book instead of selling it for 5 cents in a garage sale.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Perhaps. I haven't seen it discussed much here, so it's possibly original here, at least.

But not interesting or insightful? How do you figure? If Hillary were to become president, she would indeed be America's first female president. Isn't any discussion of the implications and expectations of that event interesting?

As for insightful, I don't think her opinion is any great revelation or epiphany, but I do find it at least a little insightful. Do you think her idea is not insightful because it's wrong, or because it's too obvious to qualify as insight, or some other reason?

Anyway, who cares about your disdain for Roseanne Barr? What about the idea itself? Do you agree that Hillary is significant as an establishment candidate, rather than as a woman candidate? Do you think she can be both? Do you wish she was more one or the other?

She won't be insightful for much longer: http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/21/entertainment/roseanne-barr-blind-thr-feat/

 

[theprestige]

Candidate for the nomination, perhaps?

Perhaps. Does it break the bounds of propriety to speak of Hillary as if she were already nominated?

 

[Noztradamus]

Fair enough.


Well, it's not like Hillary Clinton is the first woman to emerge on the national political stage. Many of her predecessors have been establishment candidates as well, so it's not really a new thing. She is forging new ground by being a woman candidate for president(?), but has there really ever been a serious woman candidate for president that wasn't an establishment candidate?

Shirley there was one?

 

[Brainster]

That's my point. Maybe feminists would say "they're pleased that a woman is now seen as an "establishment candidate". But that's not really such a big deal, since women have been seen as establishment candidates in national politics for a long time already. And even in her presidential aspirations, there's never been a point when Hillary wasn't seen as an establishment candidate.

In fact, I suspect that most feminists wouldn't be too pleased to have another woman establishment candidate. I think the impulse will be in the other direction: to portray Hillary as a revolutionary feminist candidate--something new under the sun, not just another 4-8 years of the same male-dominated political establishment with a female figurehead this time 'round.

Well, they may try to sell themselves that Hillary 2.0 is vastly different from Classic Hillary but:

1. It's going to be a hard sell to anyone else. You're talking about a woman who has tried very hard to position herself as a moderate.
2. Those likely to be swayed by the argument are those who would already vote for her anyway because she has a vagina.
3. It is against Hillary's own interests to allow herself to be portrayed as a revolutionary feminist. Maybe if she finds herself in another tough battle for the nomination, but assuming the Democrats fall in line for her, she has no incentive to allow her gender to become her primary attribute.

 

[sarge]

Well, they may try to sell themselves that Hillary 2.0 is vastly different from Classic Hillary but:

1. It's going to be a hard sell to anyone else. You're talking about a woman who has tried very hard to position herself as a moderate.
2. Those likely to be swayed by the argument are those who would already vote for her anyway because she has a vagina.
3. It is against Hillary's own interests to allow herself to be portrayed as a revolutionary feminist. Maybe if she finds herself in another tough battle for the nomination, but assuming the Democrats fall in line for her, she has no incentive to allow her gender to become her primary attribute.

Citation? On second thought, please don't.


Hillary is polarizing. She may be the lone politically prominent female potential candidate in the US that would not get a significant percentage of other-party female voters. She is that universally disliked by non-Democrats.

 

[theprestige]

Hillary is polarizing. She may be the lone politically prominent female potential candidate in the US that would not get a significant percentage of other-party female voters. She is that universally disliked by non-Democrats.

What surprises me is that she's so universally liked by Democrats, this cycle.

 

[TragicMonkey]

What surprises me is that she's so universally liked by Democrats, this cycle.

Is she? Or is she just the most visible person in a sea of nonentities? If someone even a little bit better pops up support will retreat from Hillary like rats from a flame.

 

[Joey McGee]

I say vote for the person with the least annoying voice. Anyone who does not take vocal lessons to correct something like that can't care much about getting people to listen to them...

 

[TragicMonkey]

I say vote for the person with the least annoying voice. Anyone who does not take vocal lessons to correct something like that can't care much about getting people to listen to them...

2016: Gilbert Gottfried/Emo Phillips or Megan Mullaly/Joey Lauren Adams?

 

[Polaris]

Oh what about those poor nuns who are spiritually married to Jesus? I bet you that they have some wet dreams... and the opposite... When I was a kid I found this book at a garage sale and it mentioned serious investigations of nuns being "attacked" by an incubus, some very serious psychic investigators included some quite graphic descriptions of their reports. My point is, with the capacity for bliss comes the capacity for utter terror and torture... Like, imagine you really believed that you're being raped by demons, that must be awful! A religiously brainwashed woman having nightmares during sleep paralysis further terrorized by religion and "ghost hunting" kooks! Needless to say, I wish that arse burned that book instead of selling it for 5 cents in a garage sale.

Bernini certainly thought so.

 

[Spindrift]

What surprises me is that she's so universally liked by Democrats, this cycle.

I don't think it's a case of universal like as universal support, especially since it seems she would win against any Republican candidate, at this point.

 

[portlandatheist]

There was another serious woman candidate for president? Help me out here, because I am drawing a blank.

Cynthia Mckinney and Cindy Sheehan as VP!