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"Ron Paul racist rant caught on tape!" (note, in quotes)

Jesus Christ, there is no evidence that he has been a racist beyond a newsletter he did not write by himself 22 years ago, by now you should know that.

As soon as Paul comes out and admits that he knowingly allowed others to write and publish racist things under his name, and that some of those people still work for him (see the CNN article I linked above) then I'll cut him some slack. As long as he keeps trying to blame others, I'll treat him as the liar that he is behaving like.
 
You have no evidence that oliver has ever said or implied any such thing. Nor do you have any evidence that he does not fully agree that Ron Paul is a racist.

We have no evidence that oliver even writes his own posts!:eye-poppi
 
... I guess one's own words have more value than a text.


Then please post the words, or your summary of them.

You already posted one video without bothering to give either a transcript or paraphrase of the words you thought were relevant to this discussion. A person gullible enough to click the link (such as me) would have to spend about 9 minutes in order to find out that what Ron Paul said in the video was, essentially, a repeat of his previous non-answers: I didn't write those things, I don't know who did, it's old news, I've already answered this, why don't you look at the answers I've already given rather than bothering me with this. In contrast, it takes about 9 seconds to read that summary.

If there is anything Ron Paul says in the video which you believe is worth knowing and might change people's opinions on this issue if they were aware of it, it would make sense to post a transcript or summary of those words. Since neither you nor any other Paul supporter here is leaping to post the text of his remarks, my suspicion is there is nothing particularly new or substantive to be found. And I'm not going to waste another 9 minutes, or however long this video is, to find out.

You apparently have seen the video -- and concluded whatever Paul says in it isn't worth the time and effort for you to summarize or transcribe. I'll respect your judgment on that.
 
So, a mystery ghost writer published: "I voted against this outrage time and time again as a Congressman. What an infamy that Ronald Reagan approved it! We can thank him for our annual Hate Whitey Day."

What a clear cut case of identity theft.

if Ron Paul raised money based on those publications, did the ghost writer steal that as well?

Why is anyone defending this?
Rationalizing is a pretty well known phenomenon. I do believe it is just a brain reflex. When something is difficult to accept, we make up a logical reason for it.

One can counter the reflex but it takes critical thinking skills.
 
Jesus Christ, there is no evidence that he has been a racist beyond a newsletter he did not write by himself 22 years ago, by now you should know that.

Got anything more convincing?

I'm pretty sure there must be hundreds of racist quotes of him since and before the newsletters, right? :rolleyes:

You seem to be avoiding the salient point. Ron Paul's name was on the newsletter. He raised funds based on that newsletter. He is therefore wholly responsible for the content of the newsletters, irrespective of who actually typed out the words.

you don't deny that the content was racist.

But you do deny that Paul was responsible.

Why not?
 
Oliver also ignores the fact that Ron Paul actually defended the writings as his own while denying they were racist. It's more recent that RP has been claiming that they aren't written by him.
 
Jesus Christ, there is no evidence that he has been a racist beyond a newsletter he did not write by himself 22 years ago, by now you should know that.

Got anything more convincing?

I'm pretty sure there must be hundreds of racist quotes of him since and before the newsletters, right? :rolleyes:
It's a matter of interpretation, Oliver, of Ron Paul's words over the years. 20 years ago he was more off the cuff (if that's possible ;)). Clearly he changed over the years to either be more careful, or maybe he's even softened his bigotry from that time period.

But when I hear Ron Paul today, I hear a man who sincerely believes there are more people who are poor that resent their situation and want a handout because of it than there are poor people who are poor by circumstance of birth, who do work very hard, who don't want a free lunch and who nonetheless need one.

From my point of view there are more people in the latter group, in Paul's there are more in the former group. If you believe the latter is true, Paul is a bigot, stereotyping the disadvantaged people he sees. And certainly one sees plenty of disadvantaged blacks. I think Paul, from hearing his own words, can't help but see lots of blacks as wanting resources they didn't earn and don't deserve.

If you believe Paul's underlying premise that a large percentage of the needy are needy because of their own actions, then you would not see Paul as a bigot, you would see him correctly reflecting the population of poor people. What makes a person a racist or a bigot is assuming false attributes about someone at a single glance because the racist has false underlying premises.

Maybe Ron Paul has learned to stop himself from repeating racist remarks about blacks. In fact, there's little doubt he has. He goes out of his way now to talk about legalizing drugs and other consenting adult behavior as something that would correct the raw deal black males get in the justice system. That focus serves to compensate for a lot of his past racist remarks. But such a focus doesn't disguise completely Paul's long history of seeing poor black men as responsible for their own situation.


The narrative needs to be rewritten. For Libertarians with Paul's underlying premises, those that blame poor adults for their own situation, I wish they'd look instead at the disadvantages children of the poor have and stop resenting the financial burden Libertarians of Paul's position see in the poor adults' situations. But you don't hear that from Ron Paul, to my knowledge. Correct me if I'm wrong. Paul is all about disavowing any responsibility for adults Paul believes caused their own problems. Do we ever hear him say society should invest in equalizing the playing field with programs for poor children?

No, he says tough luck what cards were dealt to you, it's up to you, not the group to do anything about it. This is the attitude of someone who blames the poor for being poor. It's also the attitude of people who see the poor as leeches. And given Paul's past racists rants and current beliefs about the poor, I don't see convincing evidence Paul has had any kind of major changing of his views just because 20 years have passed and he verbalizes denial of those underlying beliefs. The underlying beliefs show through the denials.
 
Anyone want to comment on Ron Paul's keynote address to the John Birch Society? This isn't ancient history. This is three years ago. And it's him speaking, not someone "ghost speaking" for him.
The topic of his keynote address was "Restoring the Republic: Lessons From a Presidential Campaign," in which he lectured the audience on how our republic can be restored with groups such as the John Birch Society (JBS) and his own Campaign for Liberty leading the way.

How many of you want the John Birch Society leading the way in America?
 
... there is no evidence that he has been a racist beyond a newsletter he did not write by himself ...


Actually there is, if you had simply taken the time and effort to click every single link in this thread and read everything posted there.

Which is an unreasonable requirement in my mind. I believe when people have evidence they should present the evidence in their post (either by summarizing it or quoting it) -- with a link provided, so that people who wish to check and make sure the material is fairly summarized or quoted can do so.

Many people, however, feel that simply posting a link is sufficient. They will post a link to an article, or a video, and think that's sufficient to make their point. It isn't.

One noteworthy article you may have missed is one Tricky linked to. Ironically, Tricky's post is one which is not guilty of the link problem I was just talking about. Tricky provided a good summary in his post of an article he was linking to which contains a good deal of information showing Paul's entanglements with racism and conspiracy theories were not simply a brief decades-old one-of-a-kind mistake.

The summary and details Tricky provided indicated this was a source worth looking at, and made me interested in reading the whole thing to see what additional details it had. I'm surprised, if you are interested in examining the evidence of Paul's racism and you really believe that a link is better than an in-post summary, that you didn't click the link too.

David Frum said:
Don't get the idea, however, that racism-as-strategy was some brief, futile dead-end for Paul. Paul exploited bigotry throughout his career, before as well as after the newsletter years. As Dave Weigel and Julian Sanchez reported in the libertarian magazine Reason, "Cato Institute President Ed Crane told Reason he recalls a conversation from some time in the late 1980s in which Paul claimed that his best source of congressional campaign donations was the mailing list for The Spotlight, the conspiracy-mongering, anti-Semitic tabloid run by the Holocaust denier Willis Carto until it folded in 2001."

Crane is the president of the premier institution in the libertarian world. If his recollection is correct, Paul was appealing to consumers of Holocaust denial for political purposes half a decade before the newsletters commenced.

Nor is it wholly accurate to describe Paul's strategy of appealing to the extremes as "abandoned." Ron Paul delivered the keynote address to the John Birch Society as recently as the summer of 2009...


The John Birch Society was a key promulgator in the '60s of the idea that MLK was a Communist and the Civil Rights Movement was part of the Communist conspiracy to destroy America. See, for example, It's Very Simple: The True Story of Civil Rights, published by the John Birch Society in 1965 (and available for free online here).

The article Tricky linked to, in turn, links to and draws upon several other good articles which expand on Paul's connections to racism. Rather than overload this post, I'll quote from one of them in a separate post.
 
One of the articles quoted and linked to in the article Tricky linked to is "... Why Do 20 Year Old Newsletters Matter So Damn Much?" by Steve Horwitz. Essentially, the racism in Paul's newsletters was the result of a deliberate strategy (concocted by Ron Paul's newletter editor Lew Rockwell, among others) for libertarians to appeal to racists for support.

Steve Horwitz said:
The paleo strategy, as laid out here by Rockwell, was clearly designed to create a libertarian-conservative fusion... It was about appealing to the worst instincts of working/middle class conservative whites by creating the only anti-left fusion possible with the demise of socialism: one built on cultural issues...

The paleo strategy was a horrific mistake, both strategically and theoretically, though it apparently made some folks (such as Rockwell and Paul) pretty rich selling newsletters predicting the collapse of Western civilization at the hands of the blacks, gays, and multiculturalists. The explicit strategy was abandoned by around the turn of the century, but not [until] after a lot of bad stuff had been written in all kinds of places. There was way more than the Ron Paul newsletters. There was the Rothbard-Rockwell Report, which was another major place publishing these sorts of views. They could also be found in a whole bunch of Mises Institute publications of that era...


Murray Rothbard died in 1995, but Lew Rockwell -- the editor of Paul's newsletter -- is still alive and still a close associate of Ron Paul's.

Rockwell may have been the author of the racist bits which appeared in Ron Paul's newsletter. He is almost certainly the author of the piece Horwitz linked to (which appeared in the January 1990 issue of Liberty Magazine under Rockwell's byline). The link goes to a PDF of the entire issue. The article, in which Rockwell argues that libertarians should appeal to the far right on 'culture' issues, starts on page 34 -- but if you don't have the patience to wade through the whole thing then start on page 37, the section titled "Egalitarianism and Civil Rights"

Lew Rockwell said:
Most Americans despise civil rights and rightly so. At one time, civil rights "meant the rights of the citizen against the State," says Sobran. Now "it means favored treatment for blacks (or some other minority) at the expense of everyone else."

Yet because so many libertarians are themselves egalitarians, they are either blind to this issue or purposely ignore it. Paleolibertarians suffer from no such liability. They reject not only affirmative action, set-asides, and quotas, but the 1964 Civil Rights Act and all subsequent laws that force property owners to act against their will.

State-enforced segregation, which also violated property rights, was wrong, but so is State-enforced integration. State-enforced segregation was not wrong because separateness is wrong, however. Wishing to associate with members of one's own race, nationality, religion, class, sex, or even political party is a natural and normal human impulse...


For Ron Paul to knowingly hire Rockwell to edit his newsletter, and to keep him on as editor despite his published intention to pander to racists, makes Ron Paul responsible for whatever racist content appeared in the newsletters. His continued association with and support for Rockwell and Rothbard also tars him with their racism.

Getting back to the Horwitz article:

Steve Horwitz said:
Even after the paleo strategy was abandoned, Ron [Paul] was still there walking the line between “mainstream” libertarianism and the winking appeal to the hard right courted by the paleo strategy. Paul’s continued contact with the fringe groups of Truthers, racists, and the paranoid right are well documented.

Even in 2008, he refused to return a campaign contribution of $500 from the white supremacist group Stormfront. You can still go to their site and see their love for Ron Paul in this campaign and you can find a picture of Ron with the owner of Stormfront’s website.

Even if Ron had never intentionally courted them, isn’t it a huge problem that they think he is a good candidate? Doesn’t that say something really bad about the way Ron Paul is communicating his message? ...
 
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Wow, the amount of hate being directed at Ron Paul on this forum is unbelievable. I could probably spend 24 hours a day replying to it and still couldn't keep up.
Since you're the guy who is big on evidence, please cite the posts in this thread in which "hate" is directed at Paul.
 
You "think" that's what he was "trying to say," but what he ACTUALLY SAID was that Obama was "the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."

Indeed, that is what he said. Sometimes people say things they don't mean. Sometimes people communicate poorly, so that the intended meaning is lost. Given that Biden apologized and clarified less than a day later, I think it is fair to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Contrast this to Paul. When confronted with decades of racist materials, published by him, under his name, as if he had written it, he DEFENDED the material as accurate. He didn't apologize. He didn't clarify. He didn't reject. He said the newsletters were correct. And his campaign said that Paul was the author.

ETA: Biden's behavior is irrelevant to Paul's.


As I said in another post, my gut feeling is that he just doesn't want to know. It might benefit him politically to "out" the person, but it just isn't in him to put somebody through that media crucifixion.

So he goes from cashing in on selling his racist newsletter to defending it to claiming he didn't write it to denouncing it to claiming he never read it. And all this time he has not been curious as to who did the actual writing? That, I can't believe. If someone in my close circle had spent a decade writing racist garbage under my name, I wouldn't hesitate to ask them who was involved. I'd want to know why no one bothered to tell me.

I will say I am amused by the idea that it is OK to tar anyone who dares question Paul about his behavior, but holding a racist accountable for his/her writings is a "crucifixion".
 
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Paul, in 1995:

PAUL: Like the minority views from the Gold Commission Report. That would have been done about ten years earlier. Anyway, I’m a physician here in Lake Jackson. I deliver babies for a living, but I also do an investment letter. It’s called the Ron Paul Survival Report, and I put that out on a monthly basis –

Q: I’ve heard of that.

PAUL: — which is a gold-oriented newsletter, but it’s also, uh, convening — expressing concern about surviving in this age of big government, where there’s a lot of taxes and regulations, and attacks on our personal liberties. I was concerned about this many years ago. Even in 1974 I had a lot of concern about this, and, uh, advocated some of the things that they’re talking about right now.

"I didn't know"

Nonsense.
 
Ex Paul Staffer: Ron Paul wouldn't use gay man's bathroom, thinks Israel shouldn't exist.

In 1988, Ron had a hardcore Libertarian supporter, Jim Peron, Owner of Laissez Faire Books in San Francisco. Jim set up a magnificent 3-day campaign swing for us in the SF Bay Area. Jim was what you would call very openly Gay. But Ron thought the world of him. For 3 days we had a great time trouncing from one campaign event to another with Jim’s Gay lover. The atmosphere was simply jovial between the four of us. (As an aside we also met former Cong. Pete McCloskey during this campaign trip.) We used Jim’s home/office as a “base.” Ron pulled me aside the first time we went there, and specifically instructed me to find an excuse to excuse him to a local fast food restaurant so that he could use the bathroom. He told me very clearly, that although he liked Jim, he did not wish to use his bathroom facilities. I chided him a bit, but he sternly reacted, as he often did to me, Eric, just do what I say. Perhaps “sternly” is an understatement. Ron looked at me directly, and with a very angry look in his eye, and shouted under his breath: “Just do what I say NOW.”

. . .

Is Ron Paul an Anti-Semite? Absolutely No. . . .
He is however, most certainly Anti-Israel, and Anti-Israeli in general. He wishes the Israeli state did not exist at all. He expressed this to me numerous times in our private conversations. His view is that Israel is more trouble than it is worth, specifically to the America taxpayer. He sides with the Palestinians, and supports their calls for the abolishment of the Jewish state, and the return of Israel, all of it, to the Arabs.

ETA: I guess he was afraid of catching AIDS from the guy's toilet seat or something (it can't happen, but it seems like the kind of thing Ron Paul would believe).
 
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Jesus Christ, there is no evidence that he has been a racist beyond a newsletter he did not write by himself 22 years ago, by now you should know that.

Except you're continuing to ignore the evidence that he either did write the racists comments himself or they were ghost written for him in his name and in his persona.
 
So the Paulites think I should disregard the fact a man who wants to be in the most important seat in the world can't even competently run a newsletter?
 

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