Roe v. Wade overturned -- this is some BS

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TX opinion on Roe in Feb 2022
The poll found that 47% of respondents want the court to overturn the 1973 decision and allow states to decide abortion policy; 50% do not want it overturned, and 3% said they don’t know. Of those who want it overturned, 43% of respondents favor a ban after six weeks while 27% favor 15 weeks or after, and 30% said they were unsure.

Pollster Mark Owens, who teaches political science at UT-Tyler, said Texans mostly know about the Texas law named the “heartbeat bill” by Republicans. And it’s clear that among those who want it overturned, “that is their preference,” he said. ...

The polling indicates that significant numbers of Texans favor restrictions. But even among those who agree Roe should be overturned, there are divisions over details.
You need to be careful reading the article because sometimes they are talking about everyone and sometimes they are talking about the sub-section that would agree with overturning Roe.

The majority: 50% vs 47% did not want to see Roe overturned.


In addition a lot of people misunderstand the so called "heartbeat" at six weeks is not an actual heart beating. It is a sound the sensitive equipment picks up of heart cells beating. There is no heart in a 6-week old fetus. I wish the news would be more clear about this deception.
 
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TX opinion on Roe in Feb 2022You need to be careful reading the article because sometimes they are talking about everyone and sometimes they are talking about the sub-section that would agree with overturning Roe.

The majority: 50% vs 47% did not want to see Roe overturned.

And that poll shows that Zig's 8 year old survey is not the best indicator of current beliefs, representing a 5% jump in Texans in favor of abortion being legal, and a 3% drop in the number of people wanting abortion to be illegal.
 
Also if you read the fine print 100% of Republicans are in favor of abortion for their mistresses and the underage children they rape and knock up.
 
Also if you read the fine print 100% of Republicans are in favor of abortion for their mistresses and the underage children they rape and knock up.

It does seem that Republicans want abortion to be legal for men to have their mistresses et al do, but not legal for women to do on their own.
 
At this point I can't image the court NOT arguing that all the mob boss did would tell the shop owner what a nice little shop he had and what a shame it would be if anything were to happen to it...

"I'm not wrong and evil because I've mad an arbitrary set of formality that I'm following" is way to common these days.

Nobody, literally ******* nobody here, is acting under any pretense that the candidates where unaware of what they were being asked. This whole "Well I gave them a mathematicians answer that wasn't technically wrong" spiel can go cut bait.

They were fully aware the same that when a cop pulls over someone they think might be a drug dealer but claim the reason for the stop was they didn't signal far enough in advance for a lane change. Heck, RGB voted for letting that sort of thing go on. Oblivious formalism isn't bipartisan.

We built this system. The same blind formalism that the Senate used to try to ask that question without asking it was used by the judges not answering it when they answered it.

It's just not a substantive issue. If we are using this as an example of how this know-nothing approach to reality has rotted the courts and political discourse in general, fine. That this example is somehow outside the lines of what happens on a regular basis notsomuch.
 
It does seem that Republicans want abortion to be legal for men to have their mistresses et al do, but not legal for women to do on their own.

You laugh but "Abortion is legal with your male guardian's permission" being where this...

A) Winds up
B) Where the Republican are TRYING to get it to wind up

... would shock me exactly zero percent.
 
Also if you read the fine print 100% of Republicans are in favor of abortion for their mistresses and the underage children they rape and knock up.

I'd assume that some number of them see those pregnancies as gifts of their bodily essence to be protected and supported with full force of law.

If their own kid gets knocked up, well... that might be closer to 100% especially if they are the ones that did it.
 
But again this is old news. The whole "The only good abortion is my abortion" and "Oh you see I'm different, I just made a mistake, I'm not some irresponsible slut like those other women" is well established.
 
But again this is old news. The whole "The only good abortion is my abortion" and "Oh you see I'm different, I just made a mistake, I'm not some irresponsible slut like those other women" is well established.

Yup.

It all comes back to conservative ideology being about preserving a state where there is an in group the law serves but does not bind and the out group it binds but does not serve.

Anything that fits into that dynamic should never surprise anyone. Hypocrisy is a feature.
 
Yes, Bill Clinton said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman..." and then claimed he defined sexual relations as including an emotional involvement.

Not quite right. It was the Independent Counsels office that defined the sex. Per wikipedia:

During the deposition, Clinton was asked "Have you ever had sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky, as that term is defined in Deposition Exhibit 1?" The judge ordered that Clinton be given an opportunity to review the agreed definition. Afterwards, based on the definition created by the Independent Counsel's Office, Clinton answered, "I have never had sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky." Clinton later said, "I thought the definition included any activity by
, where was the actor and came in contact with those parts of the bodies" which had been explicitly listed (and "with an intent to gratify or arouse the sexual desire of any person"). In other words, Clinton denied that he had ever contacted Lewinsky's "genitalia, anus, groin, breast, inner thigh, or buttocks", and effectively claimed that the agreed-upon definition of "sexual relations" included giving oral sex but excluded receiving oral sex.[38]
 
Here is a video of Debbie Reynolds describing her fetus dying in the 7th month of her pregnancy and not being able to have it removed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iF9pI_Szuk

That was heartbreaking. It happened to her not once, but twice. I cannot imagine the emotional pain of knowing you are carrying a dead baby around for another month and a half. She was 7 1/2 months pregnant when the babies died in utero. She almost died herself because they wouldn't remove it earlier and it was literally filling her body with toxins.

This also happened to Barbara Eden of I Dream of Jeannie fame. She was almost 8 months pregnant when her baby died in 1971. She also was made to carry it for another 6 weeks.
 
That was heartbreaking. It happened to her not once, but twice. I cannot imagine the emotional pain of knowing you are carrying a dead baby around for another month and a half. She was 7 1/2 months pregnant when the babies died in utero. She almost died herself because they wouldn't remove it earlier and it was literally filling her body with toxins.

This also happened to Barbara Eden of I Dream of Jeannie fame. She was almost 8 months pregnant when her baby died in 1971. She also was made to carry it for another 6 weeks.

These ******** who would make a woman do that should be run through a wood chipper feet first and slowly.
 
That was heartbreaking. It happened to her not once, but twice. I cannot imagine the emotional pain of knowing you are carrying a dead baby around for another month and a half. She was 7 1/2 months pregnant when the babies died in utero. She almost died herself because they wouldn't remove it earlier and it was literally filling her body with toxins.

This also happened to Barbara Eden of I Dream of Jeannie fame. She was almost 8 months pregnant when her baby died in 1971. She also was made to carry it for another 6 weeks.


After seven months or so, is "abortion" really the right word? When does it become induced labor or emergency caesarian?
 
After seven months or so, is "abortion" really the right word? When does it become induced labor or emergency caesarian?

I think it's called a stillbirth at that point, not an abortion. Labor can be induced or happen on its own.
 
Don't you get it, they all knew damn well they would overturn Roe the first chance they got.

The reason they were not asked directly (if they weren't) is because the Senators know that answer: "I cannot address anything specific" or something to that effect. So the Senators were asking the only questions they knew they could get an answer to.

The members lied because they knew full well their answers were purposefully deceptive. You can bitch all you want that technically blah blah blah :words: It doesn't change the fact THEY LIED.
Sure. They concealed their true intent.

But I don't agree that the Senators couldn't ask that question directly. Had the judges been evasive about a direct question then that would have been a sign that they were prepared to overturn Roe vs Wade. But because the Senators went softly soflty with the questions, the Judges got away wit concealing their intentions. So they share the blame with the judges.

You can redefine a lie to mean concealment if you wish but that doesn't make it so.
 
This will be a sh*tshow:

If it doesn't get fixed legislatively at the national level, trying to just address it with executive orders is just going to very quickly end up climbing up the judicial ladder until it hits the SCOTUS which will swat it down.
I suspect that even national legislation would be swatted down by the SCOTUS.

Having ended Roe vs Wade, it seems unlikely that they would let congress interfere with that decision.
 
Do you know what triggered the position?
Well, it's complicated. And mainly down to the foibles of various popes.

In Ye Olden Days the generally accepted belief was that a fetus/embryo acquired a soul at "quickening". This happened at (based on Aristotle who appears to have just Made It Up) 40 days (male) or 90 days (female). This, BTW, is pretty much still the general belief within Islam, at 120 days.
Other, pre-xian, cultures and religions tended towards ensoulment at birth (the 'first breath' standard) or occasionally at conception.

Aristotelianism was incorporated into xianity by the Church Fathers (e.g. Aquinas, Augustine, Jerome and Tertullian) and if you look at the history of the discussion on quickening and ensoulment it's a mess of arguments between these believers and those to wanted to incorporate the rival Pythagorian doctrine of ensoulment at conception.

About a thousand years now passes and we reach Aquinas who reignited the debate, paralleling the reintegration of Aristotelian learning into Europe, by being pretty definitive that ensoulment was well after birth. Hence abortion was, as in he Hebrew tradition, a misdemeanor.

Matters continued along these lines for a couple more centuries until Sixtus V who, in 1588, issued the Bull Effraenatam, which subjected those that carried out abortions at any stage of gestation with automatic excommunication and the punishment by civil authorities applied to murderers.

This lasted three years until his successor Gregory XIV limited that mandatory excommunication to abortion of a "formed" fetus. This may demonstrate Jesuit influence as the doctrine of ensoulment after birth was pretty common among them.

Another century passes and Innocent XI condemns the Jesuit teachings but doesn't actually promulgate the doctrine of ensoulment at conception.

Finally we reach the nineteenth century and the medical organisations (such as the nascent AMA) who engaged in a power-grab over midwives, whom they really didn't like and blamed for carrying out terminations. Suddenly civil society started getting in on the act and the first severe restrictions on abortions started being enacted. That's when (in 1869) Pius IX staged an abrupt about-turn in four centuries of church doctrine, and Canon Law, with Apostolicae Sedis, and re-enacted the penalty of excommunication for abortions at any stage of pregnancy,
This was very much down to the man himself, who'd undergone an equally abrupt change in views following certain matters in 1848, like being chased out of Rome by the republican revolutionaries and only returning with the French Army.
He spent the rest of his life descending into knee-jerk conservatism, condemning liberalism, modernism, moral relativism, secularisation, separation of church and state and other such dangerous ideas.
Abortion was really only a tiny part of this process.

Hope this helps.
 
I suspect that even national legislation would be swatted down by the SCOTUS.

Having ended Roe vs Wade, it seems unlikely that they would let congress interfere with that decision.

Probably depending on the legislation. I doubt that they'd rule against a nation wide ban.
 
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