Robots

[theprestige]

As I said: intimidation. Just planting the idea that China could produce a neverending supply of the equivalent of Star Wars Battle Droids.

That's the stupidest idea I've seen so far this year. And it's been a bad year, for stupid ideas.

If nothing else, China has 2 million soldiers in the PLA. That's already far more soldiers than China has the capability to transport anywhere. Adding more soldiers, robotic or otherwise, won't intimidate. Adding more sealift capacity and naval defense capability, to move their existing army around, would be intimidating.

Too, the humanoid form factor isn't all that. There's a reason the extreme evolutionary pressure of war has led Ukraine to wheeled and flying solutions, rather than bipedal ones.

I don't think you know how intimidation works. If China wanted to waste its "neverending"* resources on a bunch of Star Wars Battle Droids, it wouldn't be intimidating. It would be laughable.

Meanwhile the USN is pursuing things like autonomous cargo ships. This is very intimidating to China, if you are actually paying attention instead of spinning tankie fantasies.

 

[Puppycow]

I've been to boot camp. There is no obstacle course.

Navy? I think in the Army and/or Marines there is one. But they call it "Basic Training" in the Army not "boot camp".

 

[Darat]

I think the few sensible thinkers yet to be purged in the USA military will already be deadly afraid of Chinese advances in robotics.

One of the reasons why the Chinese are pushing ahead with human proportioned and shaped robots is that these can be slotted into place wherever humans currently work with little to no redesign of facilities, so no major retooling required. However I suspect that humanoid robots will be a stop gap technology and then become a niche technology. The human form is very flexible and adaptable but not optimal for many tasks.

 

[theprestige]

I think the few sensible thinkers yet to be purged in the USA military will already be deadly afraid of Chinese advances in robotics.

Why do you think that? The US military is making its own advances in robotics. Nothing I've seen from China puts it ahead or even on par with the US, in this regard.

One of the reasons why the Chinese are pushing ahead with human proportioned and shaped robots is that these can be slotted into place wherever humans currently work with little to no redesign of facilities, so no major retooling required.

I think that narrative is nothing more than a coping mechanism, to cope for the fact that nobody can explain, even to themselves, why humanoid robots are a worthwhile investment.

The reality is that dark factories and dark warehouses are already being designed and built. Nobody is sitting around with their thumbs up their butts, waiting for humanoid robots so they don't have to redesign their current facilities. The USN is contracting for robot cargo boats, not waiting for humanoid robots to crew its crewed boats.

In terms of practical applications, humanoid robots are already obsolete.

However I suspect that humanoid robots will be a stop gap technology and then become a niche technology. The human form is very flexible and adaptable but not optimal for many tasks.

This day is already upon us.

 

[Pixel42]

One possible exception would be carers/companions for the elderly and disabled in their homes.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

I will grant you the companionship aspect, but it has to actually be autonomous for that. If you have to have a guy in the basement remote controlling it, you'd get more value out of just talking to the guy. (And does it even have to be an android? Plenty of people get their social fix by talking to ChatGPT and/or a face it generated.)

Disabled... not that sure.

And for anything else, we already don't need androids for a good reason. We didn't build android maids like in the Jetsons, we built a flippin' Roomba. We didn't build android bank tellers, we built a flippin' ATM. We didn't build android farmers to drive a tractor around like in Musk's deranged dreams, we just installed a GPS unit and control module in the tractor. We didn't build androids to work in factory assembly lines like Bender in Futurama, we just built stuff like a big arm with a cheap controller. We didn't build android restaurant employees like in Star Wars, we built a flippin' vending machine. We didn't build android protocol bots to translate for us (SW again), we just use a phone app. Etc.

 

[GlennB]

One possible exception would be carers/companions for the elderly and disabled in their homes.

Have you seen that brilliant comedy series on BBC, Ann Droid? Highly recommended.

 

[EHocking]

One possible exception would be carers/companions for the elderly and disabled in their homes.

I’m rather saddened by the idea that society would remove themselves from personal care of their elderly and disabled. (emphasis on “person”) I’m fine with aid devices, but I’d be disappointed if we further isolated vulnerable people by fobbing off their care to mechanised plastic.

 

[theprestige]

I’m rather saddened by the idea that society would remove themselves from personal care of their elderly and disabled. (emphasis on “person”) I’m fine with aid devices, but I’d be disappointed if we further isolated vulnerable people by fobbing off their care to mechanised plastic.

Counterpoint: Gen Alpha is growing up to be functionally illiterate, intractably screen-addicted, and consumed by parasocial relationships with Ill-formed online personas.

Not really a demographic likely to produce the kind of humane, empathetic, competent workforce you'd want for that kind of work.

 

[The_Animus]

I’m rather saddened by the idea that society would remove themselves from personal care of their elderly and disabled. (emphasis on “person”) I’m fine with aid devices, but I’d be disappointed if we further isolated vulnerable people by fobbing off their care to mechanised plastic.

There are drawbacks but there are also advantages. The robot isn't going to commit elder abuse or steal their money. A lot of elderly people are isolated and have little interaction beyond care. We've seen how people get attached to ai companions or chat bots as though they're real people. Robots that can provide both care and companionship might be better than getting no or little care and companionship from people.

 

[Pixel42]

Also, having to wipe someone's bottom for them is unpleasant for one party and humiliating for the other. If I ever get to the point where I need that level of care, I would much rather have a robot do it.

Have you seen that brilliant comedy series on BBC, Ann Droid? Highly recommended.

Came late to that party and am currently half way through it. Excellent stuff indeed.

 

[Helen]

If they make Diane Morgan-robots, I would sign up straight away. And I agree with Pixel; there are things I'd rather have a robot help me with, than a stressed out, underpaid human.

We are facing a crisis in the Western world, there are too many old people, and far too few young ones to take care of them, us. If robots can take care of some of the tasks, maybe there will be more times for human carers to supply, well, more human care?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The way to keep people functional at a higher age is to start early with assistance devices that can slowly take up more and more of the work.
Glasses are the thing we've done for ages, electronic calendars, voice controlled devices, exoskeletons.
It will always be better to keep people active than to become a WALL-E society.

 

[Helen]

The way to keep people functional at a higher age is to start early with assistance devices that can slowly take up more and more of the work.
Glasses are the thing we've done for ages, electronic calendars, voice controlled devices, exoskeletons.
It will always be better to keep people active than to become a WALL-E society.

Oh, I agree, and in most western countries, people are active and healthier for longer, but for most of us, if we live long enough, there will come a time when we need more help.

 

[Darat]

Oh, I agree, and in most western countries, people are active and healthier for longer, but for most of us, if we live long enough, there will come a time when we need more help.

Yep and it is either warehousing us in high density factories, sorry care homes or providing care in the home. And for reasons that are really off-topic for this thread care workers (in homes or in your home) are some of the most poorly paid and overworked workers in society and even with them being low paid 24/7 365 coverage is beyond the means of most people apart from the very wealthy. Robots might be able to step in and make later life care affordable and truly supportive. It could be one area in which humanoid-ish robots would be a good design choice so they can work within structures designed for humans.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

It's a well established principle that the more important and beneficial a job is, the worse it is paid.

 

[jeremyp]

One possible exception would be carers/companions for the elderly and disabled in their homes.

Why not humans for that?

 

[Darat]

Why not humans for that?

Simply not enough humans to be able to offer 24/7/365 care for the elderly and disabled even if we are warehoused. (Never mind that being a carer is not a popular job and probably wouldn’t be even if the wage wasn’t so low.) Being the age I am lots of my friends are dealing with care for their elderly parents so I’m hearing a lot about care. Around here standard local authority care will provide 3 paid visits a day. That for example means the first care visit will be an am visit, which will mean a visit between 8 and 11am, if you require help to get out of bed safely and you wake early means you can easily be stuck in bed just waiting for hours. Same with the PM visit, you may be being helped into bed at 8pm regardless of you wanting to go to bed at such a time. One friend whose father is in his 90s (he still lives on his own) was telling me how he had been unwell recently and been in hospital for little while and on returning home hadn’t showered for 5 days because the AM carer was an 18 year old “girl” (his description) and he was embarrassed for her and him to have her help him shower. All of this would be improved if there was a robot that could provide that type of care.

 

[Puppycow]

Why not humans for that?

Maybe there aren't enough caregivers to go around. Particularly in countries with low birth rates and aging populations.

 

[Andy_Ross]

If the Chinese wanted to scare the bejebus out of the US, they would film a robot passing a boot camp obstacle course - the technology is obviously there.

Getting a robot to do well in a Brutality match would get the notice of the military.
It's not likely to happen anytime soon