Ed Rob Menard's FOTL Claims

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What a remarkably patient judicial system you Canadians have.



Oh, you don't know the half of it. I specialize in the 'eccentric' litigants we see in my court, so I often observe our judges facing schizophrenics, religious or ideological extremists, paranoids, persons with severe cognitive impairments, addictions, and so on. To their credit, the judiciary is very aware that persons who make extraordinary claims are sometimes telling the truth. And that sometimes an extraordinary claim has embedded within it a genuine legal right of a more mundane character. The court's job is, in part, to tease out that right.

But when we are confronted by someone who is attempting to consciously distort and game the system, that role becomes problematic. For one, Canadian judges have a positive obligation to assist a self-represented litigant to present and advance their case: R. v. Phillips, 2003 ABCA 4, 320 A.R. 172, affirmed en toto, 2003 SCC 57, [2003] 2 S.C.R. 623. Now, that's a criminal prosecution scenario, but that same concept has been held to apply as well in a civil context.

There's a strong logic to that. Court processes are complex and, at times, damned arcane. Some persons are self-represented by necessity.

[Editorial note - and the Canadian Law Societies deserve nothing but contempt for their claim that there are always pro bono or government assisted legal services that fill that need. Spend one morning in any family law chambers session and you WILL see the unanswered needs of persons with socially and personally important legal issues drowning without a life preserver in an alien and confusing sea.]​

So justice is served by a judge assisting the self-represented litigant in explaining court processes, rules, and other general hand-holding. Judicial assistance keeps legal proceedings structured, timely, and helps obtain a fair result.

Nevertheless, that leaves the system very open to manipulation. By design or accident, a fair number of FMOTLish tactics play directly into that judicial vulnerability. Unless a judge knows that a litigant's lack of cooperation or peculiar conduct is a pre-planned mechanism to jam the court, the judge will have an obligation to attempt to help that litigant through the process, step by step. The judge has only the most limited right to say "I think you're screwing the system - get out."

As if they don't, that is grounds for an appeal. Here's an unsuccessful attempt on exactly that point:

Papadopoulos v. Borg, 2009 ABCA 201 - http://canlii.ca/t/23nxk

Papadopoulos v. Borg does not appear to indicate a standard of review, but I think the right to assistance would have to be an aspect of procedural fairness and an aspect of the Charter, s. 7 principles of fundamental justice. As a consequence, an appellate court would review the trial judge without deference - so an appeal on this kind of point would be, in theory, rather easy.

My experience has been that in Canada the legal community has only a minimal understanding of the FMOTL and their relatives. That means a judge almost never receives in evidence a backstory on the spurious argument / scheme / courtroom antic in play. Let alone relevant case authority. The judge then has to ask: is this a person who may have an actual legal right, or someone attempting to disrupt the system? If the judge cannot exclude the possibility this is a genuine attempt at litigation, then R. v. Phillips requires the judge assist, warn, and guide, step by step.

So that's problem #1. There are two other factors that combine to complicate the situation. Canadian courts have taken a very cautious approach to their contempt of court authority. In practice, a person is only rarely found in contempt of court because appellate courts have instructed that contempt of court ought to be used with caution, and that a penalty is only appropriate where a litigant is given an opportunity to 'cure' their misconduct.

Last, it is difficult to terminate a civil proceeding before trial. The rule is that a proceeding can only be struck if there is no change a litigant might succeed, in spite of the length, complexity or novelty of a matter, or the defences available: Hunt v. Carey Canada Inc., [1990] 2 S.C.R. 959 at para. 33. My observation has been that appellate courts apply Hunt v. Carey Canada Inc. in a very strict manner. That too shelters the FMOTL from being kicked out of court.

Then there's a more personal aspect. I have come to know the judges at the court where I work very, very well. Without exception, they take their roles very seriously, and are loath to think that they might deny a person the right to response, remedy, and beyond anything else, a fair hearing of their grievances. One of the fascinating things I have observed, watching many proceedings where one party has been a little less than calm (and arguably rational), is how often that angry person is satisfied if they have some confidence that they have been heard, in full, and that a fair and unbiased umpire has chosen the other side. That is why detailed reasons for a decision are not only important for appellate review, but those reasons and explanation can often also make a difference on a more personal, social level.

Sadly, Freemen and their relatives take advantage of and exploit that vulnerability.

Chaetognath.
 
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It would appear Robert has had some influence on Tracey after all, my e-mail address is now not recognised by the ACCP site and as such I cannot log in.

Pretty much looks like a ban to me. :rolleyes:
 
Last, it is difficult to terminate a civil proceeding before trial. The rule is that a proceeding can only be struck if there is no change a litigant might succeed, in spite of the length, complexity or novelty of a matter, or the defences available: Hunt v. Carey Canada Inc., [1990] 2 S.C.R. 959 at para. 33. My observation has been that appellate courts apply Hunt v. Carey Canada Inc. in a very strict manner. That too shelters the FMOTL from being kicked out of court.


Certainly, Hunt v. Carey limits one's options on a motion to strike, and has done since the decision was released in 1990 (although if a given FOTL is only regurgitating the same old same old that has failed before, an action should still be able to be knocked out on a motion to strike on the strength of one's factum and book of authorities; on the other hand, if the FOTL has posited something new or different than the decided cases that have gone before, yes, it would be difficult to have it struck out as having no chance of success.)

But, as a side note that might interest you, there were significant changes made to the Ontario Rules of Civil Procedure in 2010 which have made it quite a lot easier to obtain summary judgment pursuant to Rule 20, so that has opened things up quite dramatically if one proceeds under Rule 20 (motion for summary judgment) instead of Rule 21 (motion to strike).

The wording in Rule 20 changed from "no genuine issue for trial" to "no genuine issue requiring a trial" and the amendments also gave motions judges far more leeway than was the case prior to the 2010 amendments. Pre-amendment, they could not weigh evidence, find facts, or assess credibility on a summary judgment motion, and no viva voce evidence was permitted, for instance (very similar to proceedings under Rule 21, except that affidavit evidence was, of course, permitted for motions for summary judgment under Rule 20 but not for motions to strike a pleading under Rule 21), but the 2010 amendments have changed things. Now, at a motion for summary judgment, the judge can draw reasonable inferences from the evidence, make findings of fact, assess credibility, order that viva voce evidence be heard on a "mini-trial", etc.

The Ontario Court of Appeal recently delivered an omnibus judgment that provides clarification and guidance for the application of the 2010 amendments and the increased availability of summary judgment (Combined Air Mechanical Services Inc v Flesch, which combined five appeals at the same time), and developed a new test, the "full appreciation" test, which asks whether proceeding by way of summary judgment can achieve a full appreciation of the evidence required to decide the case or whether a full trial is required to do so.

This, combined with the expanded evidence assessment powers granted by the 2010 amendments, makes summary judgment much more readily available in Ontario than it had been in the past. It is entirely possible that other provinces will follow suit and amend their own Rules of Civil Procedure to make this avenue more available to litigants, in which case FOTL nonsense could more readily be knocked out on a motion for summary judgment, without having to resort to a motion to strike and the latter's more limited scope.
 
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It would appear Robert has had some influence on Tracey after all, my e-mail address is now not recognised by the ACCP site and as such I cannot log in.

Pretty much looks like a ban to me. :rolleyes:

As there are only three people on the planet dumb enough to believe in FOTL-Waffle or ACCP-Crap I would suggest that 'Tracy' is about as real as 'Debbie'.
 
http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=13475

it would appear that Menard isnt of the same mind as Tracey as to taking membership money for the ACCP
SHOW TIME CONFIRMED!
Freeman Empowermentality
with MOI!
Saturday May 26th 5PM-9PM
Masonic Hall (HAHAHAHA!)
203 Cochrane Street
Whitby Ontario,
Chili Dinner and Meet and Greet 5-7PM
Show 7-9PM
Cost: $50

Then....
Sunday May 27
2PM - 6PM
Same Place
Association of Canadian Consumer Purchasers
Information and Sign up Seminar
Come meet the Executive team, see what we are all about!
Attendance is free, Membership fee is $100 ($75 for those who attended the previous nights show.)
For tickets call Marc at 905-903-7186

So thats $125 for the two shows and becoming a member.
And for this you get instant access to $2,500

Good luck Rob, just one member will see you under close investigation by the RCMP.

PS. You do have to laugh at the amazing double standards.
Show one= Free yourself from the nanny state and stand alone as a sovereign FMOTL

Show 2= Sign up for free money sucking on nannies teet.
 
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I can imagine Rob opening show two
"Ok guys and gals, anyone here last night?"
Yes!
th_woody.gif
 
it would appear that Menard isnt of the same mind as Tracey as to taking membership money for the ACCP
And not only that, appears that Rob has recruited an entire executive team, meeting his exacting standards, in a few days and they are all up to speed and available to be quizzed by the public. As usual, anyone might think that this crap is being made up as they go along, with the added stupidity of putting things in writing before they've made them up.
 
Im sure its true about the recruitment of the board, the request for staff has gone from the site. :)

Im sure the interview process was well thought through and efficient.

'Hello, come in and sit down, can you fill in this application form.'
'Yes of course'
'Sorry dude that makes you over-qualified for the position.'
 
Is there anyone in the locality who could attend this meeting on the Sunday?

Mmm...I may just drop Adrienne Arsenault a quick e-mail.;)
 
taken from the ACCP membership agreement (no longer available on the site)
Becoming a Member. To become a member of ACCP, you must complete a Membership Agreement form. To join Association of Canadian Consumer Purchasers, you must agree to pay a onetime fee of $100 upon signing Agreement and a monthly fee of $125. The monthly fee is broken down as follows: $125 is divided evenly in half ($62.50 each). One half covers membership, and administrative fees as well as daily operations of ACCP. The other half, $62.50, is donated on your behave to an Artist, Musician, Student or Volunteer (called “artist” hereafter) that is affiliated with ACCP by your own choosing. You will be required to login, via ACCP website, to your ACCP account and review profiles, biographies and art samples, pictures, and prototypes. You will then be required to select the artist you wish to help. The donated money will go towards tools and supplies needed to further the artist. These tools and supplies will vary depending upon artist needs. For a complete list of items your donation will help go towards, all artists will have a list of items that they require on their profile. From that list, you will know specifically what your donation is being spent on. An artist will be selected for a minimum of three months unless ACCP receives a written cancellation of membership. If you wish to continue supporting your chosen artist you can select the continual option which will continue to pay for artist until either you change artist or the artist is no longer affiliated with ACCP, in which time ACCP will notify you by mail to update your selection. If you wish to choose a different artist after three months, you may login to your ACCP account at any time and review the other artist’s profiles to make your selection.

Isnt it strange that the majority of the agreement concentrates on the chosen artist portion of the fee.

I believe Robert will not even be a member of the ACCP and will simply be an "artist" that recieves donations and as such will be totally free of all blame if the government takes action.
 
. . .and ya' have to wonder if the Masons realize to whom they are renting out their hall?

As a mason on our building committee for my own lodge - I can guarantee you pretty much they have no idea who its being rented to. All we ask when renting our lodge out is (1) a check for the entire amount ahead of time as well as a deposit for any damages, (2) how long they want to rent for and what rooms they want access to, and (3) the general purpose of the rental.

I imagine Rob put "business conference" or something generic when renting the room. My lodge is pretty vigilant about declining kook/insane groups from using the rooms (because every time they do someone goes OMG KOOK GROUP IN MASONIC LODGE = MASONS SUPPORT IT)...but most lodges wont. If you just tell them its being used for a generic meeting 99% wont ask any further questions. These days, most lodges really rely on that rental income and are glad to take a check from just about anyone except the KKK.

However, if I can find the lodge information Im still going to contact them and point out that they are renting to a kook group and recommend as a brotherly suggestion that they not do so. Might be too late depending on the contract they signed with Rob for the rental though.
 
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However, if I can find the lodge information Im still going to contact them and point out that they are renting to a kook group and recommend as a brotherly suggestion that they not do so. Might be too late depending on the contract they signed with Rob for the rental though.



You might want to point them to this little bit of the post linked above:


Masonic Hall (HAHAHAHA!)


...which suggests to me he buys into they typical anti-Mason nonsense, and finds it amusing that he's "using them against themselves".
 
However, if I can find the lodge information Im still going to contact them and point out that they are renting to a kook group and recommend as a brotherly suggestion that they not do so. Might be too late depending on the contract they signed with Rob for the rental though.


Here you go: http://www.ontariodistrictmasons.com/Hall_Rental.htm

I imagine Rob put "business conference" or something generic when renting the room.


Nailed it in one. It's booked as a generic "Seminar".

http://whitbymasoniccentre.famundo.com/calendar_center
 
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