Ed Rob Menard's FOTL Claims

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I will post the rest of Traceys e-mails later, she has already added information to them that Menard has never even mentioned.
I may be wrong but I think I understand how Menard works by now, he will have absolutly nothing that will link him personally to the site, sure the introduction video is there but Menard can just say, 'Hey, its for entertainment purposes and Tracey just took it from Youtube, am I responsible for someone elses actions?'
 
jargon buster said:
I will post the rest of Traceys e-mails later, she has already added information to them that Menard has never even mentioned.
I may be wrong but I think I understand how Menard works by now, he will have absolutly nothing that will link him personally to the site, sure the introduction video is there but Menard can just say, 'Hey, its for entertainment purposes and Tracey just took it from Youtube, am I responsible for someone elses actions?'
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You're not suggesting that he's throw his 'friends' under the bus?
 
Mine are in Red.

Thanks
By the way, how will the banks know when to pay and when not to pay?
Your welcome. Anytime. :)

ACCP members will have every purchase pre-approved by ACCP first to ensure that 1) the member is in good standings 2) the member has enough credit on account to cover the cost and 3) that the purchase being made follows the guidelines ACCP sets out. So, essentially as long as the proper procedures are followed by the Provider and the member, then the banks will know that all receipts are correct. The provider will be responsible for ensuring the transactions are completed properly, just like they are required to obtain a signature for a credit card. Also, this takes it out of the banks hands. I don't know about you but I don't trust the banks decision making abilities so I would like to keep them out of it as much as possible.
Who decides if the member is a person of good standing?
How does the member have enough credit on account, is it down to the amount of credit they pay in?
So for every $125 a month they accrue 62.50 on their account less the artists fee taken.
Is that how the credit is accrued?

This is totally different than how Robert Menard has explained it, he claimed to be able to access $10,000 based on a simple signature from his customer who he was doing masonry work for, the work was charged to the customer by Robert who did the work and Robert claimed that he could redeem this signed bill at the bank for $10,000 cash.

Is this the case or has Robert got it wrong?
ACCP members will pay $125 and in return be given $2500 a month to use toward consumer purchases. Therefore, ACCP decides if the member is in good standings as far a membership payments go and also ACCP approves that there is credit on the account that covers the purchase and member hasn't exceeded their $2500 limit.

What Rob is saying is correct. Every Canadian has the right to use consumer notes as a species of money for things that are consumed. The problem with doing this individually is that it will be an extremely hard battle trying to get the Bank Tellers to acknowledge your consumer note. ACCP is being established for a number of reasons, including that is power in numbers. If we, as an association, demand that banks must accept these consumer notes we have a solid foundation to stand on and to fight for our rights to do this.

Does that help?
$2500 a month seems a bit excessive dont you think?
Most wage earners dont earn anywhere near that amount, how can you justify such a large amount?

So could Rob claim back $10,000 in a single transaction?
Also how are all the bank tellers going to be briefed on the correct method of accepting these notes?
Also how are you going to "demand" the banks accept the notes?
At the moment the Consumer note is simply an unproven theory or has it already been used successfully?

Every time you respond to me you seem to open another can of worms, I am thankful of your patience in responding.

Joe

Hi Joe, most of these questions will be answered within the coming months. I hope you understand that ACCP is still in the developing stages and things are constantly being changed and updated. There is a certain process that needs to take place in order to answer all your questions correctly and accurately however, until I have an Executive Team, these things will not be sorted out.

Your questions and concerns will be answered however, it will need some time. I recommend you watch the introduction video again for some answers.

Tracey
There is nothing within the video that explains the process and indicates the legislation that will allow the notes to be accepted.
It also contains no actual evidence of the process actually being used successfully, I really think that needs to be achieved before you try and go any further.
Is there any point getting the people on board and taking monthly payments without knowing if the process actually works.
Also why develop a site that is constantly changing, I really think you should have held back until all these issues were ironed out.
It looking like its floundering before its even dipped its toe in the water.

I hope it gets better pretty soon.

Joe
We are no where close to accepting monthly membership fees. We do not want them right now and are not asking for them right now. That would be very premature of us.

Can you explain to me in layman's terms how the process actually works and the legislation that supports the actual transaction, I have read the acts stated in the video and am at a loss as to how you have come you your interpretation.
Has to process actually been used yet, if not why not if the law supports it?

Joe

And now the site says they are not answering anymore questions on a one to one basis :rolleyes:
 
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ACCP members will pay $125 and in return be given $2500 a month to use toward consumer purchases.
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They'll be "given" $2500? Who will give it to them? The ACCP? The Bank of Canada?

And who decided on $2500? Surely if the Bank of Canada is required to pay off "Consumer Notes" under the relevant statutes, then this amount should be either defined by those statutes, or be unlimited. A consumer who has only themselves to support would naturally spend less than one who has kids or other dependents, so why are they all "given" the same amount?


Therefore, ACCP decides if the member is in good standings as far a membership payments go and also ACCP approves that there is credit on the account that covers the purchase and member hasn't exceeded their $2500 limit.
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Oh, so it's all the ACCP's decisions, is it? Well, who gave them that authority?
 
Rob launches these grandiose schemes in fits of self-induced euphoria which freeman wannabe’s may mistake for enthusiasm over the start of well thought out endeavor.

The sad truth is each scheme has been preceded by a disaster which has driven Rob to develop the new ruse in the hopes he will impress others and gain admiration.

These self aggrandized risings from the ashes date back to the early 2000’s when Rob lost custody of Elizabeth Anne and was driven to develop the lofty, but eventually failed, Elizabeth Anne Society.

IMHO, the stunts we know as the World Freeman Society, freeman valley and the C3PO evoke Menard’s childhood constructions of a grandiose persona intended to hide what he was told were shameful failures.

The loss of Elizabeth Anne, his failures in court (including being barred from BC courts), the airline’s refusal to accept freeman ID, the Lance Thatcher debacle, the failure of freeman valley and the C3PO are just a few of the failures that have triggered Menard’s life long overreaction to failure.

Now in the wake of a disastrous CBC-TV piece, his banning from internet forums and "Debbiegate" Menard has again constructed a scheme he hopes will be perceived as brilliant.
 
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ACCP members will pay $125 and in return be given $2500 a month to use toward consumer purchases.
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So all the unemployed people simply pay their welfare cheques into the ACCP and then get $2500 to spend.
If this actually got off the ground it would simply cripple the country, why would anyone do anything?
Why would any contractors do any work, they wouldn't need to, it would be everyone sat at home trying to hire a contractor who was doing exactly the same as they were doing.
 
So they could by chips, gum, smokes and lawyer's advice, duh.
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Ah..but who would supply the chips, gum and smokes?
And who would need lawyers advice?
I take it Rob would still have the no consent rule even though now technically he would have to consent to be governed to enable this process to work as he is accepting benefits from said government.

Is that another foot in mouth moment for Robert?
 
Well, I know this is a horrible scam but under Rob's magnificent plan every member of ACCP would have $30 000 per year to spend on basic necessities like eating out at a nice restaurant or cosmetic dentistry. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that this $30 000 of free money can't be taxed as income.

To put this in perspective, in 2009, 11,147,420 Canadians earned less than $25,000 before taxes. That's about 44% of income earners. Link.

So that's 11,147,420 people who would see an income increase (more so when you consider taxes) by joining the ACCP. If every one of them spent their 30 000 of "free money, that would lead to the creation of $334,422,600,000 in new money. The Canadian GDP was about $1.758 trillion in 2011. The new money would be about 19% of the entire Canadian economy.

1920's Germany would look like a paradise compared to Menardtopia.
 
http://consumerpurchasers.ca/?page_id=31
Members are able to view artists profiles through their online membership accounts at www.consumerpurchasers.ca. Once a member has created their ACCP account, members are able to select the artist of their choice. Half of the members monthly dues will go directly to an account for the artist they choose. The artist will then be able to purchase canvas, paints, books, and other tools and supplies needed that are not considered a consumer purchase.
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To produce works of art that can be sold for ....... oh dear, back to the drawing board (pardon the pun)

I think the only success (if you can call it that) for these notes will be 'stiffing' restaurants out of meals, theres not many things these days that you recieve and use/consume before you have paid for it.

Oh and Taxi rides.
 
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So I have something of a rant to expel. In advance, thanks for being an audience.

Something FMOTLish has come to my attention that has left me unusually irritated. I learned through the grapevine that there was an incident at the “Law Day” held at the Edmonton Law Courts last month. For those of you unfamiliar with Law Day, it is an event organized by the Canadian Bar Association every year where the Courts, lawyers, and court staff members open the court on a Saturday to provide an educational opportunity for the public to engage in question and answer sessions with court staff and judges, see simulated court proceedings, go on tours of court facilities, and generally become more familiar with the Canadian justice system.

The event has a strong family orientation and is intended, to no small degree, for kids. For example, most courts will hold a simulated trial with a scenario derived from a fairytale, or some popular children’s fiction. It’s meant to be fun.

Some of the Edmonton area FMOTLish folk decided to disrupt the Edmonton Law Day. From what I can piece together it sounds like the group were largely drawn from minister Robin-Jay: Belanger’s “Church of the Ecumenical Restoration International”. These are the guys with the “ecclesiastical pursuit chariots”.

The group arrived and began harassing various presenters with their combination of King James Bible literalism, unauthorized court jurisdiction arguments, and usually drivel. Thankfully, they were quickly identified and removed by court security. Their removal was apparently without significant violence or shouting, which was fortunate since they were in a lobby area stuffed with children and family groups.

Their apparent primary target was the simulated family law hearings – one thing I suspect many people here may not know is that there is a significant overlap between the “father’s rights” people and the Freemen – it usually comes down to irritation at child support requirements and their collection. Or for Menard, his custody issues.

I digress. Naturally enough, once expelled minister Belanger and Co. then headed to the nearby police station to press charges that they had been assaulted and that Court security had breached the Criminal Code, s. 176(1) prohibition against obstructing a clergyman. No doubt private informations will also be filed.

True to form, minister Belanger has posted a video recounting his heroic descent into the Court of Frauds, and how his Charter rights to proselytize were infringed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EER4olAYgq8&list=UU5q1yZgnjCjwv6RVt4qFwlQ&index=6&feature=plcp

I usually view FMOTL and their ilk as annoyances, and their leaders as parasites. They waste court, state, and litigant resources. They adopt schemes that are intended to disrupt and delay. They attempt to avoid their legal and social obligations, but gladly strip-mine any advantages or benefits possible.

And on that level, I can put up with them. They have a legal right to appear in court and attempt to enforce foisted contracts, claim the font of their name changes their identity, that no law exists in Canada because Queen Elizabeth swore the wrong oath – go ahead guys, make those arguments, bring your friends. If you are disruptive you may end up in detention and/or fined. If you advance a stupid and invalid argument you won’t succeed. If it takes the Courts awhile to disentangle the fact that you are attempting to game the system, rather than simply have some mental impairment, then that’s the Court’s problem for not having in place mechanisms to capture and neutralize your illegitimate and vexatious proceedings.

But an attempt to intentionally disrupt a public family-oriented event is low. Scummy. If you want to be a raving loon, attend court and we’ll deal with you. Leave the public out of it. Especially children.

This incident represents a kind of ‘political activity’ I have never previously encountered, and it leaves me concerned. For the most part Canadian FMOTLish litigants seem to be more interested in ripping off the system and making a fast buck. This is different, and is pushing towards the conduct more typical of American Sovereign Men and their mandate to confront and disrupt the state, in any form.

Very worrisome. Exceptionally annoying. And as previously stated, distasteful in the extreme.

[As an aside, minister Belanger’s YouTube channel also features a series of recordings of his first in-person meeting with Chief :Nanya-Shaabu: El:, who owns North America thanks to his treaty with the Olmec people. If you’ve ever wondered what love at first sight looks like between the chronically stupid and mentally ill, have a peek. Somehow I think the Edmonton courts are in for a rough ride the next couple years.]

Chaetognath.
 
Chaetognath said:
But an attempt to intentionally disrupt a public family-oriented event is low. Scummy. If you want to be a raving loon, attend court and we’ll deal with you. Leave the public out of it. Especially children.
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Well this behaviour does not surprise me. Unfortunately, I expect we'll see more of this.

Freemanism is a cult for mainly very irresponsible people to reject the social contract and act selfishly while pretending that a) they are really the most responsible and adult people in the country despite overwhelming evidence otherwise and b) that there exists a magic way for them to opt out of the social contract while bilking the country and the people in it.

And there is one core truth of Freemanism. If enough Canadians subscribed to the notion that parking violations are tyranny, or that we needed everyone's individual consent to be governed, then the system would simply stop working and change would be needed. Unfortunately for the Freeman (and very fortunately for us sane individuals), the vast majority of Canadians, while they may disagree with some of our laws and regulations and may feel that our society is to some degree unfair for various reasons but they don't fundamentally reject the system. Nor do they convince themselves there exists a magic way for them to easily get everything they want instantly by writing something in blue ink at a 45 degree angle.

But for the true believers, they really want to fundamentally change society and lack the ability to see that their wishful thinking simply doesn't have any basis in reality. But some of them really try hard to make this wishful thinking happen. They turn traffic stops into jail time and other foolish court antics. I think though that this is an instance of the true believers realizing that their games in court aren't effective. So they are attempting to get the message out in other ways even if it ruins a family event for children.

As far as I can tell, for all the Freeman boasting about how responsible they are, they lack any real notion of being responsible to their fellow citizens. We're held in contempt as "children" needing babysitting by the government even as Freeman welch on the debts and ruin the lives of their loved ones. They want to create a catalyst for massive (and unworkable) societal change but hold that very society in contempt.

It is a recipe for doing very stupid things.
 
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Chaetognath said:
Some of the Edmonton area FMOTLish folk decided to disrupt the Edmonton Law Day. From what I can piece together it sounds like the group were largely drawn from minister Robin-Jay: Belanger’s “Church of the Ecumenical Restoration International”. These are the guys with the “ecclesiastical pursuit chariots”.
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I have seen this guy at the Edmonton courthouse before a few times. I think he literally carries around a bible with him at all times. He quotes from the bible in a pretty comical way where he will say "god says..." and then read a passage from Deuteronomy or something. I don't think he understands much about the history of the bible.
 
What a remarkably patient judicial system you Canadians have.

I am by no means an expert on this sort of thing, but my suggestion would be that a judge puts out a warrant for Belanger for his last failure to answer some spitting on the sidewalk charge (he has to have a record of minor offenses) and when he leaves the court after his next "show" the sheriff can be waiting for him with the warrant.

I suggest the arrest happen after he leaves the court because:

1. Belanger shouldn’t be allowed to argue that he didn’t get access to the courts because he was arrested before he got into the courtroom.

2. If Belanger is arrested after his courtroom rant the authorities won’t have to lay in wait for him and can be called in the middle of his rant.

3. If Belanger lays a hand on the arresting officer he can be charged with resisting arrest or assaulting an officer.
 
Chaetognath said:
Some of the Edmonton area FMOTLish folk decided to disrupt the Edmonton Law Day. From what I can piece together it sounds like the group were largely drawn from minister Robin-Jay: Belanger’s “Church of the Ecumenical Restoration International”. These are the guys with the “ecclesiastical pursuit chariots”.
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Wow, talk about taking things to a new low for FMOTL style woo. Must have been terrible for the people who volunteered their time hoping to do a bit of community service only having to spend their time instead managing woo woos.

Maybe next open house they could have a exhibit on "insane legal arguments" for the children and use it in the form of cartoons. For example, maybe Wile E. Coyote is on trial but claims the court has no jurisdiction because hes a Free Coyote On the Land and and thats his corporate fiction name (his real name of course being Wile E: Of the Coyote Family). Think what fun you could have while teaching kids about insane legal arguments!
 
I had never heard of the "ecclesiastical pursuit chariot" - apparently its a new form of "let me justify how I can drive without real plates, license, or registration" insanity:

A woman with homemade paper license plates who calls her car her "Ecclesiastical pursuit chariot" is trying (thus far unsuccessfully) to get out of paying three traffic tickets by claiming a religious exemption. Catherine Flamond is part of a Christian group that doesn't recognize the Canadian government (deferring instead to the King James Bible), wrote a Charter notice claiming the law doesn't apply to her because she is "bound only by God, the Queen of England and the Constitution Act of 1982" -- not the Alberta Traffic Safety Act. Instead, Flamond handcrafted her own ostensibly more authentic license plates out of paper for her 1994 Mercury Sable bearing the Rom. 11:29 biblical verse. Her court battle began when she was pulled over for not having proper plates.
http://now.msn.com/living/0422-religious-woman-paper-license-plates.aspx
 
JLord said:
I have seen this guy at the Edmonton courthouse before a few times. I think he literally carries around a bible with him at all times. He quotes from the bible in a pretty comical way where he will say "god says..." and then read a passage from Deuteronomy or something. I don't think he understands much about the history of the bible.
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[Emphasis added.]

Amusingly, that fact has been confirmed by the Alberta courts. See:

R. v. Fehr, 2004 ABQB 859 at paras. 18-23 - http://canlii.ca/t/1jdd1​

Belanger isn't mentioned, but it's the same group of people. They became King James Bible literalists after they found the courts didn't take them too seriously as the "Edmonton Grove of the Church of Reformed Druids".

Chaetognath.
 
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