Ed Rob Menard's FOTL Claims

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The fact that so many here argue that we have to have a SIN, is actually them arguing that is how it should be.

No. They are saying they believe that is what the law is.

I have no SIN. The law allows me to exist in that manner.
Since I have no SIN, I have no account with CRA.
Since I have no account with them, I have no obligations to them.

It's certainly possible to stay under their radar if you don't have a job and don't report any earnings. You have demonstrated that this is possible. Lots of people do this all the time, I'm thinking of people who are trying to avoid child support obligations for example. It is certainly possible to do.

If you really wanted to test your theory however, you would have to do something different from all the deadbeat parents living under the radar. Because they have achieved the same results as you have, but with a lot less effort. They live with the same restrictions on thier day to day life as you do, but they don't spend any time on letters to CRA or revoking their SIN or anything like that.

So they've achieved the same result with less effort and without using any freeman ideology to their advantage. What is the benefit of your method?
 
No. They are saying they believe that is what the law is.



It's certainly possible to stay under their radar if you don't have a job and don't report any earnings. You have demonstrated that this is possible. Lots of people do this all the time, I'm thinking of people who are trying to avoid child support obligations for example. It is certainly possible to do.

If you really wanted to test your theory however, you would have to do something different from all the deadbeat parents living under the radar. Because they have achieved the same results as you have, but with a lot less effort. They live with the same restrictions on thier day to day life as you do, but they don't spend any time on letters to CRA or revoking their SIN or anything like that.

So they've achieved the same result with less effort and without using any freeman ideology to their advantage. What is the benefit of your method?


What restrictions would that be? I am one of the freest men I know. Unlike so many others I have no SIN or obligation to the CRA. I keep all my earnings.

Something like going on The National and claiming no obligation?

The benefit is no need to HIDE. Not having to hide is in my mind a plus to me.

You gonna at least give me credit for that?
 
I am one of the freest men I know.

By that one must assume you are under the illusion that your are never held accountable for your poor research, tall tales and outright lies.

That’s the sort of freedom you have been seeking all your life. . .ever since you got your first whuppin’ for lying.

You still aren’t there, ole son.

Hells bells, son, you couldn't even keep custody of little Elizabeth when you tried as hard as you could!
 
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What restrictions would that be? I am one of the freest men I know. Unlike so many others I have no SIN or obligation to the CRA. I keep all my earnings.

Something like going on The National and claiming no obligation?

The benefit is no need to HIDE. Not having to hide is in my mind a plus to me.

You gonna at least give me credit for that?

Keeping all your earnings only matters if you are earning more than the minimum at which tax is paid. I live in the UK, so I have no idea how much a person has to earn in Canada before tax is due. Do you earn more than that amount?
 
Sorry Yankee Boy, there are many here who do, and that number grows daily. OBLIGATION TO PAY.


But not quickly, or in any great numbers.

If we accept the figure used by the CBC there are 30,000 FMOTL in Canada, that seems like a lot.

Then we look at the overall population of this country (34,108,752 in 2010) this is not a large percentage of the overall population (0.087954% or less than 1/10 of 1%).

According to Stats Canada and the 2001 census 21,000 people reported their religious affliation as "Jedi Knight" in Canada.

Guess which group I am less worried about?
 
What JB did or didn't do two years ago is neither here nor there. Comparing the profile you attract on a forum such as this vs what would inevitably be attracted as a result of a feature item on the national (government-owned, I might add) broadcaster is a bit of a non-starter.
Perhaps you're intentionally putting the CRA's crosshairs on yourself because you fancy yourself a Gandhi or a Mandela. Dunno, don't care; it's ill-conceived in any case.

Nope, just figured that since I was a vocal advocate of these beliefs, the right thing to do was to not hide, but instead accept the invitation to share and clarify our beliefs. I felt refusing their offer would be cowardly.

Hmmm....a "vocal advocate". But one whose advocacy extends not so far as the scruple but rather only so far as the specie. Speaks volumes that.

You make all sorts of claims and challenge all and sundry to disprove them. That's not how real intercourse works. You provide the independently verifiable proof of your claims. You can claim that you talked to someone named "Allan Tocher (?)". There may be someone of that name working for CRA; there might not. It's your assertion and yours to prove factual. It also falls to you to provide the proof that he said what you claimed, not for anyone else to go digging for some passing reference in a post that might or might not support your assertion.

I know he is no longer working for CRA; he suicided.

Operative phrase? "I know". More accurately, you claim. Proof, Rob. It's all about proof (of which you've provided none).

As for making claims the people in the government do that all the time, and then I ask them to do exactly what you are asking of me, provide proof of their claim, and guess what? THEY COULD NEVER DO IT!

You claim.....again. Claim≠proof.

The difference is, I am not making a claim UPON you. I do not seek to govern you. I have no obligation to prove my claims to you, as I demand nothing of you.

You make claims that beggar belief and for those claims to be accepted, you have an obligation to prove them. Sure, you can find some trusting flathead that will accept your claims at face value (absent his having any life experience for him to recognise snake oil when presented to him) and then the poor feckless soul finds himself beneath the wheels of the bus right quick when your 'advice' goes south on him

You claim. Another bare assertion supported by nothing of substance.
There are pictures available if you want to see them...

Serve it up. Locations. Date. Compensation. Client. Contact information for the client.

'Course, I'm pretty sure that you'll not rise to the challenge with verifiable info. That'd be just too unlike the sort of response that you only seem capable of.

You had one as a member of the CF (assuming you actually were a member of the CF) and if you've lost/disposed of/whatever your SIN card, that doesn't mean that you are without a SIN.
It is not only the SIN card I do not have, I no longer willingly and voluntarily associate with one in any fashion. What obligation do I have to do so? I claim I do not need to, AFTER others try to claim I must. Clearly the onus is on them to provide proof of their claim. Something the people in HRC and CRA were incapable of doing.

They have the ability to compell as granted them by the people of Canada. And as per HRC and CRA? You claim....again. Claim≠proof.

You just let everyone know when you get into a conversation with a number. I don't think anyone would gainsay you not talking to a number; certainly, I wouldn't. That doesn't remove its association with you, like it or not.

Um, associating yourself with something is not ONLY accomplished by conversing with it nor did I even imply such a thing.

Animate things are the only things that are capable of association for the purposes of the "right of association" is concerned. I guess I was bieng to flippant or subtle for you. I shall heretofore endeavour to drive points home with mallet-like subtlely

It is incapable of associating, for that requires a conscious choice, and it is not conscious, and incapable of choice.

It isn't choosing to be associated with you; it's a thing. The other vector in this equation is the government, representative of the people.

Like it or not, we actually have the right to choose our associations. Sorry to see you are the type of human being who refuses to accept that level of power over your own life.

I recognise that nobody will associate me with a tree (except perhaps in a metaphorical sense). So me hypothetically choosing to associate with a tree is a one-way vector where "right of association" is right up there with being formed.

Like it or not, I am not associated with a SIN, and neither you nor anyone in the government can force me to do so. :D

You can claim it all you like but the fact is that (you say) for a part of your life you DID accept being associated with a SIN (perhaps as a temporary means to an end but that's neither here nor there) and that assignation requires agreement from both parties to break it, something you have not provided a stick of proof of.

As for the government's ability to force you to do something against your will, I'm sure you'd find there's perfectly good societal abilities to compel you to part with monies and/or your freedom to hither and night when the spirit moves you.

If you gainsay that, do make sure that someone has a camera rolling and feel free to provide fulsome evidence of your 'triumph'.

Fitz

p.s. Do learn how to use the "Quote" function. If you're having trouble with the subtlety of that, it really doesn't bode well for your ability to parse subtle regions of law in the manner you claim.
 
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But not quickly, or in any great numbers.

If we accept the figure used by the CBC there are 30,000 FMOTL in Canada, that seems like a lot.

Then we look at the overall population of this country (34,108,752 in 2010) this is not a large percentage of the overall population (0.087954% or less than 1/10 of 1%).

According to Stats Canada and the 2001 census 21,000 people reported their religious affliation as "Jedi Knight" in Canada.

Guess which group I am less worried about?
I did not see the National Report on them Jedis. When was it aired?:D
 
Hmmm....a "vocal advocate". But one whose advocacy extends not so far as the scruple but rather only so far as the specie. Speaks volumes that.

No idea what you mean with that. Sorry. No Grok.

Operative phrase? "I know". More accurately, you claim. Proof, Rob. It's all about proof (of which you've provided none).

I have no need to provide you with proof, as I do not care if you agree, believe or accept.

You claim.....again. Claim≠proof.



You make claims that beggar belief and for those claims to be accepted, you have an obligation to prove them. Sure, you can find some trusting flathead that will accept your claims at face value (absent his having any life experience for him to recognise snake oil when presented to him) and then the poor feckless soul finds himself beneath the wheels of the bus right quick when your 'advice' goes south on him

To be accepted by YOU is what you mean. Others do their own due diligence and come to the same conclusion. You refuse to do so. Again, I do not care if you agree or accept these claims. YOu have NO POWER over me. Why should I care even a little if you personally agree? I do not know you.

Serve it up. Locations. Date. Compensation. Client. Contact information for the client.


Serve me! Serve me!
Sorry spanky. Serve yourself or go hungry.

'Course, I'm pretty sure that you'll not rise to the challenge with verifiable info. That'd be just too unlike the sort of response that you only seem capable of.

You mean I will refuse to serve you? Wow, such a psychic you are...



Animate things are the only things that are capable of association for the purposes of the "right of association" is concerned. I guess I was bieng to flippant or subtle for you. I shall heretofore endeavour to drive points home with mallet-like subtlely

Likely a rubber one.

It is incapable of associating, for that requires a conscious choice, and it is not conscious, and incapable of choice.

It isn't choosing to be associated with you; it's a thing. The other vector in this equation is the government, representative of the people.

Like it or not, we actually have the right to choose our associations. Sorry to see you are the type of human being who refuses to accept that level of power over your own life.

I recognise that nobody will associate me with a tree (except perhaps in a metaphorical sense). So me hypothetically choosing to associate with a tree is a one-way vector where "right of association" is right up there with being formed.


You can claim it all you like but the fact is that (you say) for a part of your life you DID accept being associated with a SIN (perhaps as a temporary means to an end but that's neither here nor there) and that assignation requires agreement from both parties to break it, something you have not provided a stick of proof of.

Says WHO?

As for the government's ability to force you to do something against your will, I'm sure you'd find there's perfectly good societal abilities to compel you to part with monies and/or your freedom to hither and night when the spirit moves you.

There is no function of law allowing you or your representatives to force me to beg for something you call a benefit.

If you gainsay that, do make sure that someone has a camera rolling and feel free to provide fulsome evidence of your 'triumph'.

Again, I simply could not care less if you believe or agree. YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER ME. Why would I try to convince you otherwise when you have not even attempted to exercise any?

p.s. Do learn how to use the "Quote" function. If you're having trouble with the subtlety of that, it really doesn't bode well for your ability to parse subtle regions of law in the manner you claim.

Thank you for your concern. Is this better for you?

Now you seem to think I have some sort of obligation to provide you with proof. Do you have any evidence to support THAT claim? And will you claim refusal to serve you is evidence of inability to do so?
 
It seems our resident narcissist is in one of those moods in which he believes he need not provide proof for what should be even the most easily proved claim.

Since we are expected to take our subject at his word, his character and history are fair game for comment.

The poor boy’s history of faulty scholarship, petty plagiarism, falsification of emails, conflicting tall tales and outright lies renders his credibility nil.
 
I did not see the National Report on them Jedis. When was it aired?:D
They aren't threatening to shoot Mounties. They aren't clogging courts with paper terrorism. They aren't recruiting a militia. They don't sell the lie that they really have force powers that can make the police and/or government yield which you can also have if you just send cash.

If a fringe group does those things, you can probably expect the media to take notice.
 
Rob, concerning Allan Tocher and your amusing letter to CRA in 2007, do you remember the following:

"You invited me into the offices where we had a little discussion. At that time you informed me that you had looked at my account and found that I had not filed in many years. I informed you at that time that I did not have an account with you and that I did not have a Social Insurance Number. You then told me that I did have a number thus an account with you and you stated that you had looked in a file."

"You also informed me that it was possible to file income tax returns without a SIN."

"During the meeting, you seemed to threaten me with legal action and you spoke of how the courts have previously ruled against others. You said some of them were still in jail... typical juvenile insults snipped ...I have revoked consent and I do not have a government. Furthermore I would be willing to guess that not a single one of the people whom you referred to are in possession of a document like the one I have. It is signed by a Queens Counsel who works for the Department of Justice and in it she clearly acknowledges me as a Freeman-on-the-Land who exists outside of the legislated framework and over whom they claim no statutory authority."

"You also asserted that it was not allowed to abandon a Social Insurance Number..."


This part is particularly amusing:

"You are not a lawyer and therefore your words were merely your untrained opinion..."
 
No idea what you mean with that. Sorry. No Grok.

Quel surprise from the man who claims to parse legalese more aptly than the native speakers.

I have no need to provide you with proof, as I do not care if you agree, believe or accept.

Internet forum for "I'm gonna take my bat an' my ball an' go home". Thanks for playing! :rolleyes:

Serve me! Serve me!
Sorry spanky. Serve yourself or go hungry.

:boggled::jaw-dropp:boggled:

In retrospect, I guess I shouldn't really be surprised. Evidence would be so corner-making for you, wouldn't it?

Thank you for your concern. Is this better for you?

It's a start though it seems that you go to lengths to make things needlessly difficult and unhelpful for yourself when it comes to something as simple as quoting another person. In my experience, one who goes to the extreme of eliminating any mention of the person he's quoting is dealing with some deep-seated issues.

Now you seem to think I have some sort of obligation to provide you with proof. Do you have any evidence to support THAT claim? And will you claim refusal to serve you is evidence of inability to do so?

You have an obligation to provide proof that what you say is true. I think it's pretty obvious you don't want your mojo to get blown by exposing it to sense and reason. Mind you, if you can find a deep enough well of the gullible (and God knows, the Internet's great for amassing the gullible in the easiest manner possible) and who don't mind being thrown under the bus when it's their turn to be sacrificed, then how can I gainsay social Darwinism at its most blatant?

Hubris + Kismet + Karma = One really ugly outcome

Fitz
 
It seems our resident narcissist is in one of those moods in which he believes he need not provide proof for what should be even the most easily proved claim.

Since we are expected to take our subject at his word, his character and history are fair game for comment.

The poor boy’s history of faulty scholarship, petty plagiarism, falsification of emails, conflicting tall tales and outright lies renders his credibility nil.

Truthfully, I'm pretty sure that's what got him so defensive and evasive. Payback's such a female dog, ain't it?

Fitz
 
Considering your propensity for falsifying information on the internet I question whether this work is yours.

I'd get a second opinion if he claimed the sun was shining. In any case, he won't provide contact info that someone without a dog in the fight could verify one way or another so it's all moot. He'll say we couldn't prove he didn't and everyone else in the world'll look at him like they normally do.

Fitz
 
okay, then we can count on that Freeman convoy by summer, then?

odd how you keep dodging that, mr. ghandi...
 
Menard said:
"Furthermore I would be willing to guess that not a single one of the people whom you referred to are in possession of a document like the one I have. It is signed by a Queens Counsel who works for the Department of Justice and in it she clearly acknowledges me as a Freeman-on-the-Land who exists outside of the legislated framework and over whom they claim no statutory authority."
Goodness, why didn't he show this document to Adrienne Arsenault? Seems like it would be pretty compelling evidence if true.

I like how he shows how much of a "sweetheart" he is:

It was not wise to threaten me. To be a bully and to threaten me is stupid. To be a bully I can easily outrun and threaten me is next to suicide.
 
As are the other nations of the world which will not let him in without a passport.

Maybe he should go for stateless?
 
And the original extraordinary claim was the one made by folks in the government who claimed they could govern me individually without my individual consent.


No, they can govern everyone collectively without your individual consent. Everyone includes you. You are not special.
 
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