Ed Rob Menard's FOTL Claims

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BritPunk said:
Chaetognath
Seems I cannot post links yet here is the text:-

FMOTL – Guidance Management of Proceedings
JCS (Justices' Clerks Society) - The Professional Society for Lawyers who advise Magistrates'

Freemen on the Land –Guidance on the Management of Proceedings - OFFICIAL RESPONSE TO FMOTL

1 Introduction

1.1 Individuals who describe themselves as “Freemen on the Land” have begun with increasing frequency to appear before the courts. These appearances may be in connection with civil proceedings (such as the recovery of unpaid council tax), family proceedings or criminal prosecutions. At such appearances the individual may assert that the court does not have jurisdiction (possibly describing the court as a “commercial” court) and claiming the primacy of their understanding of common law. In this they may argue that statute law may only apply with consent; a consent which they do not give.

...

Edited by LashL: 
Snipped for compliance with Rule 4. Please, do not copy and paste lengthy tracts of text available elsewhere. Instead, quote a short cite and a link (or direct others to the link) to the source. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.
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abaddon said:
Two points.

1. I have to read that in detail.

and

2. Put a link in broken form like www someplace com. Just replace the dots with spaces, another member will repost it for you as a link.
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It's been posted to various FOTL-related forums. Just Google a phrase from it.
 
Nope, started no threads at Icke, sorry. Didn't even break ten poasts before I realized that I was just sullying my e-rep by poasting on a lizard man tin foil hatted kook site. I guess that's where I've already got one up on both you and Rob...
 
abaddon said:
Two points.

1. I have to read that in detail.

and

2. Put a link in broken form like www someplace com. Just replace the dots with spaces, another member will repost it for you as a link.
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Ah, okay, thanks for the help:)
 
BritPunk said:
Chaetognath

FMOTL – Guidance Management of Proceedings
JCS (Justices' Clerks Society) - The Professional Society for Lawyers who advise Magistrates'

Freemen on the Land –Guidance on the Management of Proceedings - OFFICIAL RESPONSE TO FMOTL

1 Introduction

1.1 Individuals who describe themselves as “Freemen on the Land” have begun with increasing frequency to appear before the courts. These appearances may be in connection with civil proceedings (such as the recovery of unpaid council tax), family proceedings or criminal prosecutions. At such appearances the individual may assert that the court does not have jurisdiction (possibly describing the court as a “commercial” court) and claiming the primacy of their understanding of common law. In this they may argue that statute law may only apply with consent; a consent which they do not give.

...

This is the link for the full details:-

forum davidicke com/ showthread.php?t=198683

Hope that works, cheers, LashaL:)
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FreemanMenard said:
Many people who are not lawyers and do not therefore benefit from the very confusing jargon in Acts such as The Income Tax Act wonder why we have Acts created by the lawyers which are themselves so wretched, confusing and purposely deceptive. Many have come to the reasonable conclusion that it is a purposeful deception crafted by the lawyers to ensure THEY ALONE find great benefit form governing their fellow man. Wanna know what it looks like to a growing number of Canadians? “Here are your rules. You have no choice. Your consent is not needed. And oh, incidentally, ONLY we have the ability to understand them, and if you want our opinion on them, if you want to know what they say, you have to pay us more per hour than you make in a week.” Many see that as the biggest scam EVER.
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Statutes like the Income Tax Act (or in the U.S., the Internal Revenue Code) are confusing because, in large part, they are drafted by legislators who often have no legal training. Tax Codes are particularly confusing because they are often amended due to pressure from interest / lobbying groups, rather than due to what is sensible.

At any rate, to call this a scam is disingenuous. The IRS goes to great lengths to make sure that people understand what they owe and why they owe it. For example, the IRS continuously updates its website to present voluminous evidence (generally published judicial opinions) against frivolous tax claims. You, by comparison, can't seem to find any verifiable evidence showing that FOTL has worked.
 
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Bosozoku said:
You, by comparison, can't seem to find any verifiable evidence showing that FOTL has worked.
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Admittedly, I haven't looked too hard (because the topic seems to wear its bat feces on its sleeve) but is there ANY example of a wealthy FMOTL type (who wasn't so before embracing FMOTLism, that is)? Any proof that anyone HAS unleashed the vast store of wealth that's supposedly there for the taking?

Or is this an ersatz faith, chanting mystical words and praying over mystical talismans in the hope of vindication by coincidence?

Fitz
 
FreemanMenard said:
In any event, welcome to the forum. Sorry to blast you with so many questions, please feel free to take your time, and I ask you realize my intent is to in fact uncover truth, and not harass you in any way. Peace, eh?

:)
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Oh, please.

You aren’t interesting at getting to the truth. You are just trying your usual tricks, fez boy.

Knowing full well that Chaetognath can’t answer your all questions, because: (1) unlike you she has a job and (2) can’t comment on ongoing matters.

You are attempted to control the discussion by insisting that each question be answered to your satisfaction. If you had your way Chaetognath would be answering all theses and follow up questions until the end of time.

That way you think you’d avoid talking about how the courts, the cops, media and now the general public are protecting themselves from you and your crew of tax dodging, loan defaulting, electricity stealing, restaurant check skippin’ thieves.
 
fitzgibbon said:
Admittedly, I haven't looked too hard (because the topic seems to wear its bat feces on its sleeve) but is there ANY example of a wealthy FMOTL type (who wasn't so before embracing FMOTLism, that is)? Any proof that anyone HAS unleashed the vast store of wealth that's supposedly there for the taking?

Or is this an ersatz faith, chanting mystical words and praying over mystical talismans in the hope of vindication by coincidence?

Fitz
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I think that is one of the central deficiencies of FOTL. If it actually worked, wouldn't every lawyer be a strict adherent to FOTL? What lawyer wouldn't want to tell his or her wealthy client that they can get out of their debts, or not pay their taxes? Imagine the business you could drum up! And yet, not only is there no evidence of FOTL working, I have yet to see any evidence of a lawyer (rather than a FOTLer representing him/herself) making these arguments in court.
 
Bosozoku said:
I think that is one of the central deficiencies of FOTL. If it actually worked, wouldn't every lawyer be a strict adherent to FOTL? What lawyer wouldn't want to tell his or her wealthy client that they can get out of their debts, or not pay their taxes? Imagine the business you could drum up! And yet, not only is there no evidence of FOTL working, I have yet to see any evidence of a lawyer (rather than a FOTLer representing him/herself) making these arguments in court.
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Myself amoungst others have made this point, if it worked, the market would step in and serious money would be made. I've no idea how FMOTL types can ignore this.
 
Bosozoku said:
And yet, not only is there no evidence of FOTL working, I have yet to see any evidence of a lawyer (rather than a FOTLer representing him/herself) making these arguments in court.
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Well, given the 'quality' of legal representation April Gallop seems to have had in her 9/11 suits, I have to assume that the threshold for the bar is dropping and some of the clan of the robed ones are getting desperate to distinguish themselves from the mob of ambulance chasers.

It may well be only a matter of time before Osgoode Hall has to have a little chat with one of its more....creative...members. :)

Fitz
 
deeper said:
I've no idea how FMOTL types can ignore this.
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I think it depends upon the which brand of FMOTLers you're talking about. The acolytes who've bought the packages are very likely of a desperate persuasion with limited exposure to wackadoodle theories such as this and for whom such easy riches are manna from Heaven.

The peddlers, on the other hand know full well their snake oil product and while peddling it do their best to distance themselves from its ultimate ramifications. They let others that they've fooled take the heat from the relevant tax authorities and casually throw them under the bus again and again when they fail.

I believe the military types call this "leading from the rear".

Fitz
 
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Bosozoku said:
...


...For example, the IRS continuously updates its website to present voluminous evidence (generally published judicial opinions) against www irs gov/taxpros/article/0,,id=159932,00 html "frivolous tax claims". You, by comparison, can't seem to find any verifiable evidence showing that FOTL has worked.
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Excellent Link. If one could have that webpage as an appendix to Blacks Law Dictionary, 95% of the Sovereigns and FMOTL "facts" would be dismantled.
 
Tobysmall said:
Excellent Link. If one could have that webpage as an appendix to Blacks Law Dictionary, 95% of the Sovereigns and FMOTL "facts" would be dismantled.
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Your faith is touching but I suspect that even under the unlikely scenario that FMOTLers and such actually acknowledge the veracity of the sources and gave up on the 95%, they'd cite the remaining 5% as being bullet-proof and focus their attentions on hawking those.

You're talking against an article of faith that like 9/11 'trutherism' doesn't have to withstand logical scrutiny.

Fitz
 
fitzgibbon said:
Your faith is touching but I suspect that even under the unlikely scenario that FMOTLers and such actually acknowledge the veracity of the sources and gave up on the 95%, they'd cite the remaining 5% as being bullet-proof and focus their attentions on hawking those.

You're talking against an article of faith that like 9/11 'trutherism' doesn't have to withstand logical scrutiny.

Fitz
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Faith? No. Entertainment. Pure entertainment.:D
 
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