Ed Rob Menard's FOTL Claims

Status
Not open for further replies.
Stevens also has a $5k challenge set to anyone that can produce empirical evidence of a "state" or "citizens"

Wouldnt the existance of the $5k prove that?
 
Menard seems to be trying to steal Marc Stevens "conflict of interest" nonsense

ie if the judge says he represents the Crown then you have a conflict of interest.

http://marcstevens.net/?s=conflict+of+interest
Its all in there somewhere
PS dont waste too much time on it though.



It's odd, but I thought the Crown was represented by, ya know, the Crown Prosecutor.

But that's just slave talk, right?
 
It's odd, but I thought the Crown was represented by, ya know, the Crown Prosecutor.

But that's just slave talk, right?
Sure is, because judges swear their oath to the Crown! That means the system is rigged!
 
Ha ha!

O dear, I've just been silly enough to skim Marc Stevens' site. Forget states, what planet is that guy on?

For the record, that sort of argument is so stupid and you have cited one of the reasons why, JB. A "state" doesn't exist because it isn't a "thing" in the sense of being tangible, so that line of argument appears to go. Applying the same reasoning, perhaps Marc should just be ignored - after all his name doesn't exist in the sense of being something tangible either, so he must be saying that he doesn't exist.

Well that was easy, Marc is now erased.
 
Stevens also has a $5k challenge set to anyone that can produce empirical evidence of a "state" or "citizens"

Wouldnt the existance of the $5k prove that?

Nope, that proves the existence of a central bank but a tax demand would do the trick.
 
Quel Surpriz! A judge who would have lost the power he loves, rules in his own favour, in a matter that he should not have been deciding. If the FMOTL decided in his own favour, you would not accept it, yet when a judge rules in his own favour, you do.

And you call that evidence of a justice system operating properly?

Yes, the judge ruling that he has jurisdiction to hear the case for an offence that took place in the territorial jurisdiction of the court he has been appointed to hear cases in by the people's elected representatives.

You gave your consent to be governed by these laws (all of them, common, natural and statutory) by living within said territorial jurisdiction, or by commiting the offence within said jurisdiction.

Suck it up, princess.

Hey have you figured out how one man can rule another without mutual consent and not abandon the rule of law and the requirment for equality yet?
THOUGHT NOT!

hahahahaha

:D

But don't worry, according to JB, I am finished.

:D

Well, you would be. Your allegedly legal ways to opt out of the jursidiction of the legal system by using the legal system have been demonstrated to be worthless, without a single court case where they work. In Canada, or abroad.

It's alright, you consented to be subject to Canadian society's rules by living in the territorial jurisdiction of Canada. You consented to be judged by the judge by either:

a. Bringing a civil matter before the court; or
b. Being accused of a criminal or statutory offence and thereby becoming subject to legal process.

There is no status recognized in any legal system for "freeman on the land" or sovereign citizen" or whatever variation you choose to use. No one gets to opt out of society's rules like you get to opt out of eating the canneloni at a buffet.
 
JLORD, as you are the only one posting anything resembling actual discussion, and not sophomoric drivel, I have been working on a proper response for you. I do have a life however, and this forum, and the cries and taunts and jibes of the regulars, are simply not my priority, and this forum is about as important to myself and the freeman movement as a butterfly fart in a tornado. Thank you for your patience though. I will post it on another better forum, one not populated by RANDIOTS or children, where proper discussion and not childish insults are the norm. Thank you.


That's fine. I will continue to check this thread while I await your proper response. Until then I will keep ignoring the insults back and forth so don't worry about that. Just post the response when you can.
 
As strange as it seems, I've noticed that for a lot of freemen (and Menard in particular), their arguments remind me a lot of someone arguing in favor of Zeno's famous paradox with Achilles and the tortoise. It may be difficult to come up with a mathematical equation for why Achilles can pass the tortoise, but that does not mean that Achilles can't pass the tortoise. Anyone with eyes can see him quickly zip past. Two people arguing about the precise mathematics of the occasion will not change the facts on the ground.

It seems almost like that with freemen. Every time Menard returns here, he asks how someone can govern another without consent. Then he leaves, returns a few days later, repeats the same question, and leaves again. What he seems to fail to understand is that the current legal system does not hinge on us giving him a satisfactory answer to that question. Menard's little conundrum does not change the facts on the ground, that courts completely disregard freeman garbage and throw it out the moment they encounter it. It is no less silly to argue that courts can't be doing what they are already doing than it is to say that Achilles will literally never catch up to the tortoise.
 
During an earlier rendition of this nonsense in the 1980's a few people tried to prove they weren't 'human' and therefore not subject to 'mans' laws'; that didn't work out to well either
 
I think that the FMOTL advocates have confused the legal system with Tinkerbell; police officers and judges will not disappear if you stop believing in them.
 
As strange as it seems, I've noticed that for a lot of freemen (and Menard in particular), their arguments remind me a lot of someone arguing in favor of Zeno's famous paradox with Achilles and the tortoise. It may be difficult to come up with a mathematical equation for why Achilles can pass the tortoise, but that does not mean that Achilles can't pass the tortoise. Anyone with eyes can see him quickly zip past. Two people arguing about the precise mathematics of the occasion will not change the facts on the ground.

It seems almost like that with freemen. Every time Menard returns here, he asks how someone can govern another without consent. Then he leaves, returns a few days later, repeats the same question, and leaves again. What he seems to fail to understand is that the current legal system does not hinge on us giving him a satisfactory answer to that question. Menard's little conundrum does not change the facts on the ground, that courts completely disregard freeman garbage and throw it out the moment they encounter it. It is no less silly to argue that courts can't be doing what they are already doing than it is to say that Achilles will literally never catch up to the tortoise.
If you're new to this topic, then it's probably been lost in the barrens, but he has, in fact, received answers to the consent question. Many times in many threads and on many forums. Most of us who, at one time or another, provided those answers have no interest in fruitlessly repeating ourselves. In any event, the real issue here isn't philosophical; it's, as you say, the fact that FOTL tactics don't work coupled with the fact that the Menards of the world keep trying to con people into believing that they do.
 
If you're new to this topic, then it's probably been lost in the barrens, but he has, in fact, received answers to the consent question. Many times in many threads and on many forums. Most of us who, at one time or another, provided those answers have no interest in fruitlessly repeating ourselves. In any event, the real issue here isn't philosophical; it's, as you say, the fact that FOTL tactics don't work coupled with the fact that the Menards of the world keep trying to con people into believing that they do.

Oh, I know that he's been answered before. That's actually why I specified that it be a "satisfactory" answer to the question, as my assumption is that he keeps repeating this question because the answer he's been given doesn't satisfy him. That seems to introduces an element of egoism into the situation; as if to say that Menard is the sole judge of whether or not something is lawful.
 
Oh, I know that he's been answered before. That's actually why I specified that it be a "satisfactory" answer to the question, as my assumption is that he keeps repeating this question because the answer he's been given doesn't satisfy him. That seems to introduces an element of egoism into the situation; as if to say that Menard is the sole judge of whether or not something is lawful.
Exactly so.
 
Robby-Robby-Doo, Where Are You?
We got some work to do now.
Robby-Robby-Doo, Where Are You?
We need some help from you now.

Come on Robby-Doo, I see you... saying consent's the answer
But you're not fooling me, cause I can see, you dodging like a hot coals dancer.

You know we got a mystery to solve,
So Robby-Doo be ready for your act.
Don't hold back!
And Robby-Doo if you come through
you're going to have yourself a dooby snack!
That's a fact!

Robby-Robby-Doo, come on you.
You're ready and you're willing.
If we can count on you Robby-Doo,
You won't be snake oil selling.
 
Last edited:
Robby-Robby-Doo, Where Are You?
We got some work to do now.
Robby-Robby-Doo, Where Are You?
We need some help from you now.

Come on Robby-Doo, I see you... saying consent's the answer
But you're not fooling me, cause I can see, you dodging like a hot coals dancer.

You know we got a mystery to solve,
So Robby-Doo be ready for your act.
Don't hold back!
And Robby-Doo if you come through
you're going to have yourself a dooby snack!
That's a fact!

Robby-Robby-Doo, come on you.
You're ready and you're willing.
If we can count on you Robby-Doo,
You won't be snake oil selling.

Really?
And people question my calling some of the people here childish.
Rhyming and alliteration used to taunt and denigrate with no logic or reason employed. It is like trying to talk to grade school children.

Thanks for showing your true colors cocana and demonstrating your incredible lack of discussion skills, and for showing all just what the standard of discussion here actually is.

Here is a reply YOU can understand:
neener neener boo boo

There you happy, child?
 
Really?
And people question my calling some of the people here childish.
Rhyming and alliteration used to taunt and denigrate with no logic or reason employed. It is like trying to talk to grade school children.

Thanks for showing your true colors cocana and demonstrating your incredible lack of discussion skills, and for showing all just what the standard of discussion here actually is.

Here is a reply YOU can understand:
neener neener boo boo

There you happy, child?

Obviously not a Scooby Do fan then.

Great, it worked, you're back. Now, where's that proof of yours? Still 'filed' away with thousands of other papers hundreds of miles away, or something to that effect?
 
As strange as it seems, I've noticed that for a lot of freemen (and Menard in particular), their arguments remind me a lot of someone arguing in favor of Zeno's famous paradox with Achilles and the tortoise. It may be difficult to come up with a mathematical equation for why Achilles can pass the tortoise, but that does not mean that Achilles can't pass the tortoise. Anyone with eyes can see him quickly zip past. Two people arguing about the precise mathematics of the occasion will not change the facts on the ground.

It seems almost like that with freemen. Every time Menard returns here, he asks how someone can govern another without consent. Then he leaves, returns a few days later, repeats the same question, and leaves again. What he seems to fail to understand is that the current legal system does not hinge on us giving him a satisfactory answer to that question. Menard's little conundrum does not change the facts on the ground, that courts completely disregard freeman garbage and throw it out the moment they encounter it. It is no less silly to argue that courts can't be doing what they are already doing than it is to say that Achilles will literally never catch up to the tortoise.

I realize your answers have no effect on anything, and what happens on this forum has no bearing on what happens outside of it. You may wish to try and tell others here that, as they seem to think that they defeat me in life by insulting me en masse here. I also realize they have never answered the question posed, they simply say 'Thats the way it is" then they insult me, try to taunt or engage in other childish activities to try and hide the fact they can't answer the question without supporting my position. 2+2 = 4, and you cannot govern your fellow man without their consent and not abandon the rule of law and the requirement for equality. It is simply impossible, and they refuse to admit or address it in any meaningful way. Their answers usually involve school yard type chants, taunts, rhymes and insults. You can find a perfect example from coccana here on this page. That is what they consider to be an answer. DO you?


As for arguing about what the courts can do and can't do, well they argue about what I can and can't do, claiming I can't do something I have already done!

Your claim that the courts completely disregard the freeman position is simply not supported by what I have seen first hand with my own eyes. I am not saying it works ALL THE TIME, and yes there are those who after accepting the courts jurisdiction, then try to question it and they fail. There have been cases where the claim of self-defense was not accepted. Does that mean the claim of self-defense is NEVER accepted? And in cases where self-defense was accepted, and no charges were brought due to that, would there be a court record when there was no court action?

Wanna know what some idiot tried telling me in regard to 'equality'? They tried to claim (in order to reconcile equality with what is happening) that I did not know what equality meant, but they of course did, and what it meant to them was not supported by any dictionary. They try claiming that "consent of the governed" does not actually mean 'consent of the governed' and they have to replace one word with another, until they are claiming 'consent of the governed' means 'consent of some of the people' which allows them to govern all people. They have to undertake the most twisty and insane modifications of language to support their position, and they do it here again claiming that their responses to my questions were actually answers. They were responses, I will grant them that. They were not answers.

Hey since you are new, and no one would expect you to dig through all the threads, lets see if the will repeat their 'answers'.

How can you personally govern your neighbour without his consent and not abandon equality and thus the rule of law? And if you can't do it directly to your neighbour in a one on one situation, how can you hire someone and empower them to do it on your behalf?

This is what they have NEVER answered, will not answer and cannot answer, but they will respond, and consider their insults and taunts to be an answer. Like many things, they fail too in this regard and are incapable of distinguishing an answer from a response.

They respond all right, usually like children, yet they never answer the question. And they cannot see the difference.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom