Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

crescent said:
You might have misread the article.

The debate he worked at was hosted by Denver 7, the ABC affilliate (KMGH). They asked for unarmed security.

But the day of the shooting, he was assigned to a reporter from 9News/KUSA, the NBC affiliate. We don't know if KUSA wanted an armed or unarmed guard. Different station, different security contract.

Still no word on who the second gun belonged to (two guns recovered at the scene. One from the shooter, one from???).
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You're right. I didn't notice that and just assumed it was the same TV station in each case. Still, it seems that he lacked the proper license. And I think Pinkerton probably bears some kind of responsibility in that regard.
 
Puppycow said:
....I think Pinkerton probably bears some kind of responsibility in that regard.
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I think there will be limited information available until the criminal trial (if it gets that far) and the web of lawsuits between the NBC, Tegna (the owners of the affiliated station KUSA), Pinkerton, Pinkerton's (yet unidentified) subcontractor, the victim's family, and possibly the shooter himself.

This is going to be a mess of lawsuits.

KUSA is in a bad way with this. The news station has become the story they were covering.
 
crescent said:
Still no word on who the second gun belonged to (two guns recovered at the scene. One from the shooter, one from???).
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It was the victim's handgun concealed in a holster on his left side under his vest. There are filter adjusted pictures clearly showing the holster strap and handgun grip. The shooter may have been reaching for the concealed handgun rather than the mace. However, the pictures don't indicate that the victim ever reached for his own handgun.
 
crescent said:
I think there will be limited information available until the criminal trial (if it gets that far) and the web of lawsuits between the NBC, Tegna (the owners of the affiliated station KUSA), Pinkerton, Pinkerton's (yet unidentified) subcontractor, the victim's family, and possibly the shooter himself.

This is going to be a mess of lawsuits.

KUSA is in a bad way with this. The news station has become the story they were covering.
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Curious what liability looks like in these situations. I wonder what representations the Pinkertons made to the news outlet as far as licensure, insurance, etc of the contractor they would provide.

I have no idea what a Pinkerton contract would even look like, or what kind of liability protection is considered standard in such arrangements. I'm not shocked that some rent-a-cop company would be lazy about actually ensuring legal compliance with their subcontractors.

I have no affection in my heart for armed Pinkertons, but I can easily see why a news crew would hire a security details for covering right wing rallies. MAGA types make no secret of their animosity towards the news, and the cops are not reliable in these matters.
 
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I can't imagine how this guy seemingly thought it was justified to try to snag this guy's bear mace can, and then to shoot him dead when he sprayed it in reaction to that.
 
Puppycow said:
The guy you quoted however is wrong. And in an earlier post you said:


You never really offered any evidence for the second half of that statement, and the first half doesn't actually contradict what the TV station actually claimed. He was effectively employed by Pinkerton, even if indirectly. A company can outsource the work, but not their contractual obligations.

I read in another story that the TV station says they asked Pinkerton for unarmed security. Not only was he armed, but apparently he didn't have the required license.



I wonder what the actual contracts say. If they specifically asked that the security be unarmed, and yet the man provided by Pinkerton's contractor was not only armed, but unlicensed, I think they could argue breach of contract. But of course, that would depend on the actual wording of the contract.

More info:
https://kdvr.com/news/local/pinkerton-says-shooting-suspect-was-not-their-employee-city-weighs-in/



Can Pinkerton simply claim that none of this was their responsibility as they outsourced the work to another company?
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crescent said:
You might have misread the article.

The debate he worked at was hosted by Denver 7, the ABC affilliate (KMGH). They asked for unarmed security.




But the day of the shooting, he was assigned to a reporter from 9News/KUSA, the NBC affiliate. We don't know if KUSA wanted an armed or unarmed guard. Different station, different security contract.

Still no word on who the second gun belonged to (two guns recovered at the scene. One from the shooter, one from???).
Click to expand...

Puppycow said:
You're right. I didn't notice that and just assumed it was the same TV station in each case. Still, it seems that he lacked the proper license. And I think Pinkerton probably bears some kind of responsibility in that regard.
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Well, that changed. Now KUSA/9News is stating that they also requested an unarmed guard, and that the reporter and staff members didn't know the guard was armed until he pulled the gun.

9News crew didn’t know security guard who shot demonstrator was armed, station says

9NEWS contracted with Pinkerton and had directed that security guards accompanying our personnel not be armed,” Mark Cornetta, president and general manager of the station, said in a statement Tuesday. “None of 9NEWS’ crew accompanied by Mr. Dolloff on Saturday were aware that he was armed.”
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KUSA is outsourcing much of the reporting of the event to reporters from other NBC affiliates. Not all of it, though. Couple of new videos, but they don't show much (second one autoplays after the first):

 
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crescent said:
Well, that changed. Now KUSA/9News is stating that they also requested an unarmed guard, and that the reporter and staff members didn't know the guard was armed until he pulled the gun.

9News crew didn’t know security guard who shot demonstrator was armed, station says



KUSA is outsourcing much of the reporting of the event to reporters from other NBC affiliates. Not all of it, though. Couple of new videos, but they don't show much (second one autoplays after the first):

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"Get the cameras out of here or I'm gonna **** you up". Threat from a man that immediately after threw a punch and tried to mace a security guard protecting a journalist. Shot dead while trying to make good on his threat of violence. Seems pretty clear that this CHUD who was getting ready to assault a counter protestor and was very displeased that this attack might be captured on video. This CHUD was seen brandishing the can of mace, and another was seen expanding an asp baton in a show of unlawful force against a counter protestor engaged in 1A protected activity.

Security guard likely has problems because he was working without a license, but that's a minor charge compared to murder. Hard to say this is an unprovoked shooting. If not lawful self defense outright, pretty clear this is a textbook imperfect self defense claim that would mitigate a murder charge. Critical support for a Pinkerton killing an aggressive CHUD.

****** around, found out. That's two dead CHUDs that presumed to mace someone at a protest and caught a bullet. How many more before the right learns?

ETA: inb4 "both sides". Literally a mob of armed reactionaries getting ready to attack an unarmed protestor before attacking a journalist. Had this journalist not had security, they likely would have been injured and/or robbed of their camera.
 
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Having just watched the video above, I would say that the deceased was being needlessly aggressive and should have had an attitude more like the older guy who kept trying to break it up.

He got into that "I'm not gonna be the one to back down" mindset with the mixed race fellow, and he should have had the sense to de-escalate and remain calm more.

Even so, I don't think anything he did necessitated the Antifa gun-for-hire popping off.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Having just watched the video above, I would say that the deceased was being needlessly aggressive and should have had an attitude more like the older guy who kept trying to break it up.

He got into that "I'm not gonna be the one to back down" mindset with the mixed race fellow, and he should have had the sense to de-escalate and remain calm more.

Even so, I don't think anything he did necessitated the Antifa gun-for-hire popping off.
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Cool story. Are you ready for the security guard to walk away from this with nothing more than a slap on the wrist for not having a city security license?

"not backing down" is legal. Brandishing weapons and threatening people is not. Hope this CHUD had enough time before the bullet scrambled his brains to realize how bad he screwed up.

Imagine thinking you're gonna beat up some soyboy journalist and his hired goon pulls out a tricked out glock with red dot and laser pointer and puts a single clean shot into your face. Courts gonna call it a legal shoot and the guy is probably going to get a fine for not having the right paperwork to grease a CHUD in Denver. Totally owned, what a loser.

Perhaps he should have listened to the "mixed race" nostradamus and saved his own life. He did indeed "**** around", and he did in fact "find out". Can't say nobody warned him.
 
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Mr. Reinoehl did have a .380-caliber handgun on him when he was killed, according to the county sheriff’s team that is running a criminal homicide investigation into Mr. Reinoehl’s death. But the weapon was found in his pocket.

An AR-style rifle was found apparently untouched in a bag in his car.
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Increasingly clear that cops that were sent to apprehend Reinoehl, who claimed self defense in the shooting of an armed man, did not attempt to take him alive. No indication that he drew or fired a weapon at the police.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/13/us/police-killing-portland-antifa-reinoehl.html

Garrett Louis, who watched the shooting begin while trying to get his 8-year-old son out of the line of fire, said the officers arrived with such speed and violence that he initially assumed they were drug dealers gunning down a foe — until he saw their law enforcement vests.
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johnny karate said:
If you can’t believe the claims of an accused murderer’s attorneys, who can you believe?

Great skepticism as usual, Bogative.
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How about Lake County State's Attorney's office?

A statement from the Lake County State’s Attorney’s Office said an Antioch police investigation determined the firearm used in the Kenosha shooting was purchased and stored in Wisconsin.

There is no evidence the gun was ever physically possessed by Kyle Rittenhouse in Illinois.
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The "he committed a felony when he transported a firearm across state lines" narrative just collapsed. The first of many.
 
Far-Right Twitter Trolls Won’t Admit They Were Wrong About Killing of a “Patriot” in Denver

It was a reporter’s bodyguard, not an anti-fascist activist, who shot and killed a right-wing demonstrator who had assaulted him....


On Sunday, a leader of the pro-Trump youth movement Turning Point USA, Charlie Kirk, also made the false claim. “A conservative was just gunned down in the streets by ANTIFA and not a single ‘mainstream’ news outlet has asked Joe Biden to condemn the organization he called ‘just an idea,'” Kirk tweeted to his 1.8 million followers. “We don’t have a media in this country anymore,” Kirk added. “We have activists posing as journalists.”
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https://theintercept.com/2020/10/12/far-right-twitter-trolls-wont-admit-wrong-killing-patriot-denver/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=theintercept

Let's just wait for reactionary propagandists to issue a correction on this story. They are serious journalists, they must be so embarrassed to have badly botched the story...
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
Far-Right Twitter Trolls Won’t Admit They Were Wrong About Killing of a “Patriot” in Denver



https://theintercept.com/2020/10/12/far-right-twitter-trolls-wont-admit-wrong-killing-patriot-denver/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=theintercept

Let's just wait for reactionary propagandists to issue a correction on this story. They are serious journalists, they must be so embarrassed to have badly botched the story...
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They are trying to create a Horst Wessel moment
 
Bear Spray Bob shared this meme to his Facebook page before he played his final game of Glock, Pepper, Scissors.
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https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1316252706323849218

Meme jokes how shooting someone directly in the face is a "warning shot" to others.

CHUDs talk a big game about inflicting violence on their political enemies, but it's all pearl clutching and gnashing of teeth when it goes the other way.
 
johnny karate said:
Maybe next time start with reliable information instead of painting a target around your arrow and pretending you got a bullseye.
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Evidence his attorneys were unreliable when they released their statement claiming he had not transported a weapon across state lines? The state's attorney's has proven they are reliable, so far.



Looks the “murdered people” narrative is still holding up.
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For now, but it's slowly collapsing.


From today.

A man has admitted being first to open fire at the Kenosha protests in the moments before accused teen gunman Kyle Rittenhouse allegedly shot and killed two people and seriously injured another, according to court documents.

Joshua Ziminski, 35, and his wife “both admitted” to detectives that he “fired off a ‘warning shot’ into the air” during the Aug. 25 protests in Wisconsin, according to a criminal complaint obtained by The Post.

Attorneys for Rittenhouse have called the gunshot a “pivotal moment” that left the 17-year-old alleged militia member fearing he had “no way out” as he was chased by protesters with “no way to know who fired that shot.”
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