Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

Minoosh said:
He loves the U.S. marshals but repeatedly, he can't be arsed to get the name of the agency right.

Do his supporters care all that much about what happens in Portland?

I doubt if he knows the difference between marshals, martial and Marshalls.

ETA: Maybe he'll slip and make a reference to "marshal law," which is a good thing, right?
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Marshall law, it's highly discounted...
 
cullennz said:
As an outsider the need for some people to keep proclaiming all this is just peaceful protesting and there are no rioting looting scum in amongst them is becoming a bit of a joke.
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It's a joke that isn't funny because no-one is claiming that there are no rioters at the peaceful protests.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Yes, all 100 (or less) of them. (A significant portion of which are right-wing instigators)
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It's not ever MY ideological side that's doing bad things. And when they are, the bad things are being blown waaay out of proportion, it's only a few bad apples perpetrating the bad things, no wait agents provocateurs trying to discredit us :rolleyes:
 
Shadowdweller said:
It's not ever MY ideological side that's doing bad things. And when they are, the bad things are being blown waaay out of proportion, it's only a few bad apples perpetrating the bad things, no wait agents provocateurs trying to discredit us :rolleyes:
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Whatever. I'm just stating facts. There aren't many rioters at all out there and they are condemned by the peaceful protesters.
 
Scott Adams is not as smart as he thinks he is, either. He was insightful on corporate culture, sure, and maybe a decent programmer or whatever he did back in the day. But nothing that makes him the smartest cartoonist in the field. He just sort assumed that since IT guys were putting up his comics on their cubicle walls he was the genius.

In the age of webcomics, he probably wouldn’t crack the top ten smartest comic makers.
 
kookbreaker said:
In the age of webcomics, he probably wouldn’t crack the top ten smartest comic makers.
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When he took a short hiatus to deal with his fiance's breast cancer recovery, Randall Munroe (Degree in Physics from Christopher Newport University) brought in several other comic strip (both print and web based) creators for a few guest comics on his popular XKCD comic strip, including FoxTrot creator Bill Amend (Masters in Physics from Amherst College) and Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal creator Zach Weinersmith (Degree in Physics from San Jose State College).
 
Ziggurat said:
Okay, then, so you already know. Then why did you ask? :confused:
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I gave an example why I would consider it a problem: Documentation (recordings and body cams) helps resolve questions of fact. Like whether a Miranda warning was read. But why do *you* consider it bad practice? What are the problems it has created for the bureau?

Ziggurat said:
Yeah, no. This didn't start with Trump. It's got basically nothing to do with Trump. It's not like the Feds were recording things and then stopped after Trump came into office.
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I never said it started with Trump; I just said that having unresolved questions might help Trump. Such as, will we see the detailed forensic ballistics that will let us know if, for example, if Reineohl ever fired his weapon? How many cops were shooting? How many shots were fired? Body cam footage MIGHT have given us answers, but apparently there isn't any.

So Trump didn't start these practices, but in the short term, they may benefit Trump.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Alan Swinney has been openly bragging about his violent action during the last proud boy rally in Portland. Here he is sharing a video of his crimes and promising that Sep 26 will be worse.

https://twitter.com/betacuck4lyfe/status/1305017425474199554?s=09

The choice by the police not to arrest Swinney and others like him speak volumes. The cops endorse this street violence.

It's likely that the 26th rally will be extremely violent and that more will be killed in the streets, either by the fascists or by antifascist counter-protesters. Remember that the police chose for this to happen.
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So does the left(ish) wing do anything to amplify Swinney's brags? Are any Democrats using it against him? It doesn't matter if the brags give the Democrats political ammo if no one ever uses the damn ammo. Is he just bragging, or trying to instigate more violence against the alt-right?

I haven't watched the footage yet; I'm kind of depressed just thinking about it. But if this turns out to be effective messaging for the right, then the left needs an effective counter-message. Not just more hotheads in the street.

Could the state bring its National Guard to keep protesters separated? And, do both sides have permits? Can the Proud Boys permit be endangered by such talk? Does it fall under instigating violence? These aren't rhetorical questions; someone needs to be publicly acting on them. Getting an injunction or whatever.
 
Again stop playing Zigg's "Oh lordy me why do you have to make it about Trump I just can't comprehend it" game.

The standing President of the United States is both telling his followers to engage in violence and espousing conspiracy theories that encourage it.

We don't have to be all toady and milquetoast about why so much is about Trump just because his cult members think "Trump Derangement Syndrome" is really a thing.
 
Minoosh said:
So does the left(ish) wing do anything to amplify Swinney's brags? Are any Democrats using it against him? It doesn't matter if the brags give the Democrats political ammo if no one ever uses the damn ammo. Is he just bragging, or trying to instigate more violence against the alt-right?

I haven't watched the footage yet; I'm kind of depressed just thinking about it. But if this turns out to be effective messaging for the right, then the left needs an effective counter-message. Not just more hotheads in the street.

Could the state bring its National Guard to keep protesters separated? And, do both sides have permits? Can the Proud Boys permit be endangered by such talk? Does it fall under instigating violence? These aren't rhetorical questions; someone needs to be publicly acting on them. Getting an injunction or whatever.
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Portland has a Democratic Mayor who has direct control over the police department. The governor is also a Democrat and would have authority over the state guard. The failure of the police department to enforce the law on these people is ultimately under the mayor's supervision.

Local Democrats already have all the authority they need to crack down on the most openly violent members of these rallies. They simply choose not to.

It seems clear to me that people like Swinney are very openly attempting to incite other like-minded right wingers to violence. He is trying to encourage more people to join him in Portland, or to take action in other cities. His gloating appeals to others who might wish to commit violence, but fear repercussions. His continued freedom from criminal charges is a giant invitation to other would-be agitators.

The last Proud Boy event was considered a failure on their end. They fled the area while being pursued by undaunted antifascists, and they were mocked and criticized by their own on the internet afterwards. It seems extremely likely to me that they will come prepared for a higher level of violence this time around to avoid a similar fate. That means they are trying to recruit more followers to join them, and I suspect they will be more likely to use more dangerous weapons in order to achieve a victory.

Antifa types in Portland are undoubtedly aware of this very heated rhetoric, and will likely come prepared for more intense violence themselves. In the abdication of law enforcement, superior firepower will decide who is allowed in the public sphere.
 
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kookbreaker said:
Scott Adams is not as smart as he thinks he is, either. He was insightful on corporate culture, sure, and maybe a decent programmer or whatever he did back in the day. But nothing that makes him the smartest cartoonist in the field. He just sort assumed that since IT guys were putting up his comics on their cubicle walls he was the genius.

In the age of webcomics, he probably wouldn’t crack the top ten smartest comic makers.
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"Your best work hangs in the cubicle of everyone’s least favorite coworker."
 Heh!

https://www.themarysue.com/scott-adams-twitter/
 
JoeMorgue said:
Again stop playing Zigg's "Oh lordy me why do you have to make it about Trump I just can't comprehend it" game.

The standing President of the United States is both telling his followers to engage in violence and espousing conspiracy theories that encourage it.

We don't have to be all toady and milquetoast about why so much is about Trump just because his cult members think "Trump Derangement Syndrome" is really a thing.
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It took me a long time to post that response because of slow Internet and other distractions. I did consider letting it go. But no, dammit, I have to make my point, even if it is a pedantic quibble. Especially if it's a pedantic quibble, because I'm right, dammit! I can PROVE it. In the process they don't answer my question - which was, Why is it bad practice for feds not to have recordings or body cams? I threw out one example; but I wanted Zigg's take. Instead he dismissed the question with an obtuse comment - I had speculated about one example, so why I was I asking? I wanted to discuss it, which I thought would have been clear but whatever.

This method of "triggering the libs" - what is the equivalent "trigger the cons" tactic? The right seems damn good at it. Libs want to win the (main) argument with earnest persuasion, while the right simply dodges the question.

But if taking the bait is the wrong approach, what is a more effective way of engaging (if any)? Should we stop trying and use our energy for voter registration drives etc.?

Dang! Donald Trump or CREEP 2.0 just called for third time today. I hope he's broke because his fundraising team is skimming whatever they can off the top. I am seeing mail from Democrats even though I'm a Republican, and they're saying Republicans will take away your health insurance. Decent tactic IMO.
 
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