Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

portlandatheist said:
True but they were dealt with via our law enforcement agencies and our criminal justice system. Not by the Wolverines or by the Scobby Doo gang or Antifa or any other groups that like role playing as law enforcers and avengers.
Click to expand...

Because the President and Law Enforcement weren't openly on McVeigh or Oswald's side.

Bush didn't tell the Michigan Militia to "Stand by."

When Oswald shot Kennedy an officer didn't give him a loving tousle on the hair and send him on is way as one of the good guys.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Because the President and Law Enforcement weren't openly on McVeigh or Oswald's side.

Bush didn't tell the Michigan Militia to "Stand by."

When Oswald shot Kennedy an officer didn't give him a loving tousle on the hair and send him on is way as one of the good guys.
Click to expand...

*glances at Swinney and others in their cells*
 
Thermal said:
*glances at Swinney and others in their cells*
Click to expand...

You know the history of this case as well as me. Swinney was getting a free pass for months from PPB. It was only the backlash of the Jay Danielson shooting that finally got them to do their jobs and arrest this guy who was committing broad daylight armed assaults. PB were getting ready to hold a vengeance rally that practically guaranteed fatalities and the city finally got off their ass and made the cops give a ****.

That's probably a big part of why Alan is going to spend so much time in prison. Cops ignored him for weeks as he escalated, and now there are several serious felonies they can prosecute in retrospect.

He probably would have been better offer catching a charge promptly rather than being given free reign to commit several serious crimes over an extended period of time.
 
Last edited:
SuburbanTurkey said:
You know the history of this case as well as me. Swinney was getting a free pass for months from PPB. It was only the backlash of the Jay Danielson shooting that finally got them to do their jobs and arrest this guy who was committing broad daylight armed assaults. PB were getting ready to hold a vengeance rally that practically guaranteed fatalities and the city finally got off their ass and made the cops give a ****.

That's probably a big part of why Alan is going to spend so much time in prison. Cops ignored him for weeks as he escalated, and now there are several serious felonies they can prosecute in retrospect.

He probably would have been better offer catching a charge promptly rather than being given free reign to commit several serious crimes over an extended period of time.
Click to expand...


That's true, and exactly my point. That's how the good guys fight things. We don't decide to assassinate Swinney. We do the good guy thing. While not as emotionally satisfying, we kind of have a moral imperative to do so.
 
Thermal said:
That's true, and exactly my point. That's how the good guys fight things. We don't decide to assassinate Swinney. We do the good guy thing. While not as emotionally satisfying, we kind of have a moral imperative to do so.
Click to expand...

Swinney is in jail because armed antifascists refused to be chased from the public square. The police made it clear they would not intervene, and unarmed counter protestors would have been either run off, severely wounded, or killed. I see no reason to require that decent people walk unarmed and unprepared to meet fascist violence as a matter of moral imperative. The antifascists stood their ground, forcing the fascists to escalate to a point that the public finally shamed the police into doing their duty.

Carrying a weapon involves lots of legal risk, but self defense remains a legal right and unquestionably moral. Failures of judgement while armed carries tremendous risk that people should consider carefully, but it remains a moral act.
 
Last edited:
One nice thing about violent right wing extremism is that, sooner or later, the libertarian poison pill kicks in. The savvy fascist knows that it's much more effective to cooperate and co-opt the state than it is to oppose it. Groups like the Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer go to great lengths to recruit from and ingratiate themselves to the local police, and it pays dividends.

But eventually some milita nut decides to talk about shooting the cops or murdering a governor, and then the crushing power of the state gets turned against them. These people just can't resist the siren song of going full OKC bomber, which is a great relief.

Cops might tolerate murdering and terrorizing normal civilians in their churches and schools, but they won't suffer any violence that touches their precious blue line.
 
Last edited:
Thermal said:
That's true, and exactly my point. That's how the good guys fight things. We don't decide to assassinate Swinney. We do the good guy thing. While not as emotionally satisfying, we kind of have a moral imperative to do so.
Click to expand...

We die, and serve as martyrs to get the police to actually stop allying with the bad guys. Genius plan!
 
I'm still always flabbergasted by people talking about the Proud Boys, of all groups, as some sort of scary dangerous thing.

This is a multi-racial, milquetoast group of "bro" types who like raunchy humor, silliness, and being un-PC but still worship at the alter of diversity, get super excited whenever a black person agrees with them or is among their number, and would risk bodily harm to defend Milo Yianopolis, a gay Jewish man, as he extolled the wonders of degeneracy up on a stage.

They seem to primarily be excited about the idea of free speech and standing up to violent anarchists who want to burn things down and attack people unprovoked.

I mean it's actually just WILD that anyone tries to portray this group as some sort of KKK militia or something.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
I'm still always flabbergasted by people talking about the Proud Boys, of all groups, as some sort of scary dangerous thing.

This is a multi-racial, milquetoast group of "bro" types who like raunchy humor, silliness, and being un-PC but still worship at the alter of diversity, get super excited whenever a black person agrees with them or is among their number, and would risk bodily harm to defend Milo Yianopolis, a gay Jewish man, as he extolled the wonders of degeneracy up on a stage.

They seem to primarily be excited about the idea of free speech and standing up to violent anarchists who want to burn things down and attack people unprovoked.

I mean it's actually just WILD that anyone tries to portray this group as some sort of KKK militia or something.
Click to expand...

What was the color of the pill they gave you?
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Swinney is in jail because armed antifascists refused to be chased from the public square. The police made it clear they would not intervene, and unarmed counter protestors would have been either run off, severely wounded, or killed. I see no reason to require that decent people walk unarmed and unprepared to meet fascist violence as a matter of moral imperative. The antifascists stood their ground, forcing the fascists to escalate to a point that the public finally shamed the police into doing their duty.

Carrying a weapon involves lots of legal risk, but self defense remains a legal right and unquestionably moral. Failures of judgement while armed carries tremendous risk that people should consider carefully, but it remains a moral act.
Click to expand...

Agreed, within limits. My basic limit, as I argue on many threads, is:

Are you adequately prepared to fire this weapon in a crowd?

I have not talked to a single person who has given this the slightest meaningful thought. I get a lot of vague platitudes that amount to "**** your kid peacefully counterprotesting on the sidelines, I'm just gonna wing it. Tough luck if I kill her".

Paper targets at the range ain't jack **** compared to live-action. If you have not seriously prepared for what you will do in the event of, say, getting jumped by multiple attackers in a crowd, don't bring a gun, full stop.
 
Portland cop, now retired, accused of driving into vandalism suspect while monitoring mid-June protest

A Multnomah County grand jury has indicted a former Portland police officer on misdemeanor charges and accused him of driving into a man seen running from a Northwest Portland skateboard shop that was vandalized during protests in mid-June.

The officer, Scott Groshong, faces charges of official misconduct, third-degree assault and failure to perform the duties of a driver, according to a source familiar with the investigation but not authorized to speak about it.
Click to expand...

Cop was caught on camera deliberately hitting a fleeing suspect with his truck.

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/10/retired-portland-cop-indicted-in-alleged-hit-and-run-of-vandalism-suspect-during-protests.html
 
Charges: Boogaloo Bois fired on Minneapolis police precinct, shouted 'Justice for Floyd'

Feds say Ivan Harrison Hunter helped burn and loot the Third Precinct building as part of a coordinated attack from the far-right group trying to ignite an American civil war.

Two hours after the police precinct was set on fire, Hunter texted with another Boogaloo member in California, a man named Steven Carillo.

“Go for police buildings,” Hunter told Carillo, according to charging documents. “I did better lol,” he replied. A few hours earlier, Carillo had killed a Federal Protective Services Officer in Oakland, Calif., according to criminal charges filed against him in California.
Click to expand...

Right wing accelerationists coordinated the 3rd precinct fire and the murder of a federal security guard in an effort to stoke violent unrest.

https://www.startribune.com/charges-boogaloo-bois-fired-on-mpls-precinct-shouted-justice-for-floyd/572843802/
 
Four people were punched and assaulted at a recall Gavin Newsom rally in Palm Springs, California. Two teens were charged, one for assault with a deadly weapon.

A car of young people confronted a small group of President Trump’s supporters who were advocating for the recall of California Gov. Gavin Newsom on Sunday, and “an altercation ensued” with at least two of the youths, Palm Springs Police Lt. William Hutchinson said.

According to rally organizer Toni Ringlein, the people in the car yelled obscenities at the crowd.

“You could tell they were trying to agitate us,” Ringlein said. “And we don’t engage with them — just, ‘No, go on,’ ” she said.

Ringlein said that after parking the car near the protesters, the group “came running through the crowd” and started hitting people.
Click to expand...

https://www.latimes.com/california/...at-pro-trump-rally-in-palm-springs-police-say
 
Bill Barr blamed "far left" groups for violence after a Minneapolis police bldg was set ablaze.
Today, DOJ is charging *right-wing* saboteurs with attacking that building.
But Barr's damage was done.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom