Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

Skeptic Tank said:
Whatever issues the Proud Boys may have, for you to look at the Antifa / BLM crowd and what they've been doing over the last several months and still end up feeling like they're the good guys, even to the point where you seemingly bask in the glow of a murder they performed, seems to me to be a strange place to be at mentally.
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Well, let’s see... someone who advocated for mass murder in this very thread is telling us that BLM and Antifa are more of a threat than the Proud Boys and their ilk.

Meanwhile, the Department of Homeland Security have determined that the biggest threat of terrorism is coming from the right wing.

Who to believe... who to believe...
 
Alan Swinney claiming there is a warrant for his arrest, but no corroborating evidence at this time.

Hard to say exactly what crime Swinney would be arrested for as there are a variety of well documented assaults to choose from.
 
portlandatheist said:
Neither have permits. The proud boys applied for a permit but it was explicitly denied because of COVID restrictions.
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In that case I'd say the PB's should meet somewhere else that takes at least4 hours to get to by the other group in Portland--- like Idaho...or Wyoming.
Or better yet, no one meet for anything.

It sounds like an old school 'rumble' when they speak of it doesnt it?
 
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After all these years, I still somehow manage to find myself astonished at the embarrassing stupidity that fuels conservative rage.

Let's play a little guessing game. I'm going to provide some right-wing quotes regarding a recent incident (caught on video) involving a group of left-wing protesters. After reading the quotes, I want you to imagine what the video actually shows, and only then can you watch it to see how close you got. I'm hiding some of the details so as to not spoil the surprise.

Charlie Kirk of Turning Point USA:
This is clearly organized and financed domestic terrorism. Who is behind this?

Where is the FBI? Arrest them all!



Pathetic grifter Dave Rubin:
Seems that [company] can easily find out who rented that [redacted]. It’s about to be used by domestic terrorists. Could they be legally culpable?



House Minority leader Kevin McCarthy:
You can’t just supply people with this type of armor without resources, without funding. Where is that funding coming from and why is it being used? How are these people knowing to come? Are there training facilities that are teaching these people how to do this? This is a grave concern, and this is something that the FBI should be focused on.



Fox & Friends host Lawrence Jones:
They're well-prepared, they're well-funded, but it seems like no one wants to go in there and shut it down. If they have it on video, it shouldn't take this long to do investigative work, to figure out who purchased the [redacted], to find out who's behind it, and shut em all down. They have facial recognition technology and use them to get real criminals off the street.

So there are your clues. What do you think happened? Imagine you heard all of this from someone who was prone to a decent amount of exaggeration. We heard references to terrorism, crime, coordination and funding... What could it be? Lock in your answer, and then click the link below to view the 30 seconds of extremely shocking footage.

Viewer discretion is advised.

I'm not joking. That's it. That is the video that has all these people terrified.

Mediaite link for more info.
 
I Am The Scum said:
After all these years, I still somehow manage to find myself astonished at the embarrassing stupidity that fuels conservative rage.

Let's play a little guessing game. I'm going to provide some right-wing quotes regarding a recent incident (caught on video) involving a group of left-wing protesters. After reading the quotes, I want you to imagine what the video actually shows, and only then can you watch it to see how close you got. I'm hiding some of the details so as to not spoil the surprise. ***SNIP***
Click to expand...

I actually agree on this.

I've been hearing all these people going on about the UHaul, and "who's funding this?" etc.

It strikes me as silly. The left / Antifa types anticipated that the decision might go this way, knew they'd want to protest if it did, so they brought UHauls full of protest materials ready to go - signs and what not.

So what? This seems actually fairly normal to me. I mean I think these people are idiots and completely misguided, but pulling signs and stuff out of a truck? After they've been protesting all year?

I don't see the issue. Nor does it strike me as something that would require all that much funding.

Now, is there probably merit to the idea of like, Soros funding and stuff? Sure - but this doesn't strike me as compelling evidence of it. The more depressing realization may be that there are enough total POS people like this in America now, that you wouldn't even need to fund / encourage it to get this kind of stuff.

EDIT: The real issue if someone wants to get upset about something would be the other vehicles somewhere a lot less public, that didn't probably get opened up until the evening, with ready made molotovs, bricks for throwing, weapons, etc. I'm sure such caches of items were around and ready, but again this doesn't seem to me to imply some big source of funding - and it's no great revelation. This is what Antifa is / does.
 
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Mumbles said:
Depends on how the Oregon state PD behaves, I suppose. Forgive me for finding this...less than reassuring, but that state does have a history after all.
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I don't have tremendous confidence in the Oregon state cops, but the PPB has proven itself to be especially terrible when it comes to policing fascist violence. It's pretty clear that the PPB sees armed right wing vigilantes as their allies and grant them tremendous latitude to commit extrajudicial violence.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I don't have tremendous confidence in the Oregon state cops, but the PPB has proven itself to be especially terrible when it comes to policing fascist violence. It's pretty clear that the PPB sees armed right wing vigilantes as their allies and grant them tremendous latitude to commit extrajudicial violence.
Click to expand...

If this is true, then why is it true? Most or all of the leadership, legislative, and law enforcement roles in Portland and Oregon (along with many other cities and states experiencing frequent rioting, looting, and arson) seem to have been occupied by liberals and Democrats for many years. What has prevented them from implementing reasonable reforms that would make them stand out as at least moving toward models of community-collaborative and generally non-fascist policing that BLM, antifa, and the far-left seem to be asking for?

I think it's because most politicians are pragmatic corporatists that mostly do things that make money for lobbyists, special interests, and high dollar contributors. The politicians point and say: "The other side stopped us from doing thing! (that they didn't actually want to do, while they sigh in relief)"

Alternatively, the Portland police aren't that bad and the perspective of BLM, antifa, and far leftists is fundamentally flawed and skewed. These groups hate liberals and Democrats so no changes or reforms will ever satisfy them anyway.

This isn't a gotcha post. I'm curious about any other answers that can be offered.
 
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Anyone else think Portland today ends badly? I just saw video of the Facists drinking beeer while armed with rifles. Doesn't bode well for a peacuful evening.
 
chrispy said:
Anyone else think Portland today ends badly? I just saw video of the Facists drinking beeer while armed with rifles. Doesn't bode well for a peacuful evening.
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yeah, I'm watching some of the same images. An extremely volatile situation that is likely to only get worse.
 
johnny karate said:
Well, let’s see... someone who advocated for mass murder in this very thread is telling us that BLM and Antifa are more of a threat than the Proud Boys and their ilk.

Meanwhile, the Department of Homeland Security have determined that the biggest threat of terrorism is coming from the right wing.

Who to believe... who to believe...
Click to expand...

Most skeptics would agree that believing whatever a senior Trump administration official is reported to have said is the best way to go.
 
Scopedog said:
If this is true, then why is it true? Most or all of the leadership, legislative, and law enforcement roles in Portland and Oregon (along with many other cities and states experiencing frequent rioting, looting, and arson) seem to have been occupied by liberals and Democrats for many years. What has prevented them from implementing reasonable reforms that would make them stand out as at least moving toward models of community-collaborative and generally non-fascist policing that BLM, antifa, and the far-left seem to be asking for?
Click to expand...

Yet again, it's because most elected officials are unable to toss out senior police management - and this typically includes union and fraternal order leaderships who fight hard for violent and/or racist police to continue to operate without penalty. As one more prominent example, check out Pat Lynch's screeching about how Bill de Blasio had "blood on his hands" when a Georgia resident, having shot his ex-girlfriend in Baltimore County in Maryland, travelled to Bed-Stuy and killed two police officers. And why is this?

1) De Blasio stated that he discussed how to deal with police with his (noticably black) son - a move which police should support, given that they claim that moving too fast, moving too slow, not moving, raising one's hands, lowering one's hands, reaching for ID after they request to see ID, wearing rad clothes, wearing blue clothes, wearing a hoodie, carrying a gun in an open carry state, and being chased by a wannabe vigilante are among the many reasons that justify young black men being shot;

2) De Blasio had police stop harassing young black and Hispanic men, in keeping with federal court rulings that such behavior was unconstitutional;

3) De Blasio allowed nonviolent protests, which have long been seen as fully constitutional.

Pat Lynch also complained about the "lack of support" from city hall for this rally where police wore "I Can Breathe" shirts to mock the murder of Eric Garner for standing outside (it was claimed that he was selling loose cigarettes, but police later said that a lieutenant saw him standing around, and demanded that they remove him). Chief O'Meara, photographed in one such "I Can Breathe" shirt, was one of the cops who, earlier this year, after police spent weeks attacking protestors, spoke at a press conference demanding that everyone "respect" them and to stop treating NYPD officers "like animals and thugs".

IOW, there's little chance that GOP officials, who are openly pro-brutality (note that De Blasio's two predecessors include then-republican Mike BLoomberg, who applauded racial harassment by police, and republican Rudy Guiliani, who did the same - and literally announced his mayoral bid in a rally where drunken police flung beer cans, jumped on cars, and screamed racial slurs)

I'm not surprised at all that police in Oregon have many of the same issues, if not more - Oregon initially banned black people from the state entirely, which is part of why it's a famous home area for violent racist white supremacists today. That's why I'm highly skeptical that they'll do a good job in this case.

(I'll note that Sarah Iannorone, who is running for Portland mayor against incumbent Ted Wheeler, seems to understand the problem. What she can do about it is another matter, however)
 
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CaptainHowdy said:
Most skeptics would agree that believing whatever a senior Trump administration official is reported to have said is the best way to go.
Click to expand...

Luckily, there are multiple sources that confirm what the Trump administration can no longer deny.
 
Mumbles said:
Yet again, it's because most elected officials are unable to toss out senior police management - and this typically includes union and fraternal order leaderships who fight hard for violent and/or racist police to continue to operate without penalty. As one more prominent example, check out Pat Lynch's screeching about how Bill de Blasio had "blood on his hands" when a Georgia resident, having shot his ex-girlfriend in Baltimore County in Maryland, travelled to Bed-Stuy and killed two police officers. And why is this?

1) De Blasio stated that he discussed how to deal with police with his (noticably black) son - a move which police should support, given that they claim that moving too fast, moving too slow, not moving, raising one's hands, lowering one's hands, reaching for ID after they request to see ID, wearing rad clothes, wearing blue clothes, wearing a hoodie, carrying a gun in an open carry state, and being chased by a wannabe vigilante are among the many reasons that justify young black men being shot;

2) De Blasio had police stop harassing young black and Hispanic men, in keeping with federal court rulings that such behavior was unconstitutional;

3) De Blasio allowed nonviolent protests, which have long been seen as fully constitutional.

Pat Lynch also complained about the "lack of support" from city hall for this rally where police wore "I Can Breathe" shirts to mock the murder of Eric Garner for standing outside (it was claimed that he was selling loose cigarettes, but police later said that a lieutenant saw him standing around, and demanded that they remove him). Chief O'Meara, photographed in one such "I Can Breathe" shirt, was one of the cops who, earlier this year, after police spent weeks attacking protestors, spoke at a press conference demanding that everyone "respect" them and to stop treating NYPD officers "like animals and thugs".

IOW, there's little chance that GOP officials, who are openly pro-brutality (note that De Blasio's two predecessors include then-republican Mike BLoomberg, who applauded racial harassment by police, and republican Rudy Guiliani, who did the same - and literally announced his mayoral bid in a rally where drunken police flung beer cans, jumped on cars, and screamed racial slurs)

I'm not surprised at all that police in Oregon have many of the same issues, if not more - Oregon initially banned black people from the state entirely, which is part of why it's a famous home area for violent racist white supremacists today. That's why I'm highly skeptical that they'll do a good job in this case.

(I'll note that Sarah Iannorone, who is running for Portland mayor against incumbent Ted Wheeler, seems to understand the problem. What she can do about it is another matter, however)
Click to expand...

Why have the liberal and Democratic Party leaders failed to address many or most of the sorts of concerns you presented (including the union and fraternal order barriers)?

Not enough time?

How much time do they need?

Also, was Chief Danielle Outlaw a fascist nazi Proud Boy or what (presumably the current Portland police are at least partially a product of her past leadership)?

Are there examples of policing in the USA or another country that would meet with the approval of BLM, antifa, and the far left?

It's interesting that Ted Wheeler is worried about Proud Boy violence after being chased from his home by (peaceful) arsonists.
 
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Scopedog said:
It's interesting that Ted Wheeler is worried about Proud Boy violence after being chased from his home by (peaceful) arsonists.
Click to expand...

He’s probably aware of the crime data that demonstrates how much more violent right wingers are.
 
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