Rick Perry, mind like a steel trap I tells ya...

[maxpower1227]

No surprise, the least tolerant religion, the one that cannot bear the mention of any other religion, is the one that claims not to be a religion at all.

I pray to all-powerful Atheismo that people will stop making this asinine claim.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

So what you're saying is, "Words mean whatever I want them to mean, dictionaries be damned!" Okay then.

Actually I showed above that ThePrestige's position is right in line with some very recent jurisprudence.

No, claiming that the meaning of words change over time is not the same thing as saying your invented quote. What ThePrestige said is nothing like the quote you invented and claimed he is saying.

BTW, I've said it before and I'll say it again, but when you find yourself inventing fake quotes and attributing them to your opponent in an argument, it's pretty strong evidence that you probably are arguing against a strawman.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

No surprise, the least tolerant religion, the one that cannot bear the mention of any other religion, is the one that claims not to be a religion at all.

Wait--you have evidence that atheists are less tolerant than theists?

As for the question of whether or not atheism is a religion, I've given a full explication of that above. You're pretending there is an inconsistency that doesn't actually exist.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I pray to all-powerful Atheismo that people will stop making this asinine claim.

I'm angry at Atheismo, does that make me a theist or an atheist?

ETA: This reminds me a little of a Connie Willis story that included a bizarre depiction of skeptics. In the story, two characters who were skeptics are presented with incontrovertible proof of the existence of a spirit world and the ability of a medium to communicate with spirits of the dead. (OK, one of these two skeptics is in fact the ghost of Mencken!) In that situation the two conspire to fake evidence and hide this amazing proof. IMO, that makes them dogmatists, not skeptics. It's right there with the notion of atheists being angry at god and so on.

 

[RandFan]

Rick Perry should pass a law that makes it legal to like puppies and make it legal to love America and to be a Christian.

 

[RandFan]

Texas Gov Rick Perry mistakes Lebanon for Libya, then says liberals don’t know much

 

[theprestige]

So what you're saying is, "Words mean whatever I want them to mean, dictionaries be damned!" Okay then.

Not at all. Dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive. Word meanings change over time. Social progress can be made. If your atheism is as valuable as you seem to think, humanity could probably benefit from a moral framework reasoned from a belief in atheistic moral axioms.

If you were call such a thing a religion, I wouldn't mind. If it caught on, future lexicographers would no doubt update their dictionaries accordingly.

If you wanted to call it something else, that's fine with me too. How about, "religioff"?

 

[theprestige]

Texas Gov Rick Perry mistakes Lebanon for Libya, then says liberals don’t know much

So? People make mistakes all the time. Obama himself has committed the occasional geography gaffe--and has also accused his opponents of being ignorant.

Indeed, it's a common failing: You yourself have contributed errors of ignorance to these fora from time to time. Does Perry's mistake indicate special stupidity? Perhaps. But perhaps also people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

[SezMe]

I agree with theprestige. Small verbal goof. BFD. He also called the facility an embassy which is also not correct. Small verbal goof. BFD. We all know what his message is.

 

[RandFan]

So? People make mistakes all the time. Obama himself has committed the occasional geography gaffe--and has also accused his opponents of being ignorant.

Indeed, it's a common failing: You yourself have contributed errors of ignorance to these fora from time to time. Does Perry's mistake indicate special stupidity? Perhaps. But perhaps also people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

It is a common failing and I'm happy to admit when I'm wrong. Perry isn't. Further his deception is cynical. I honestly don't want to mislead anyone. I don't think you can honestly make that claim about Perry. As for Obama, I'm disappointed on many fronts. But he does not begin to compare to Perry on the idiocy/deception front. There really is such a thing as degree. IMHO, Perry shouldn't be dogcatcher he is so incompetent. That's an honest opinion.

The man is a fool. Pure and simple. Calling for prayer. Attacking homosexuals. Passing a law to make it legal to say "Merry Christmas". Come on, that's got idiot written all over it.

 

[SomedayGirl]

Oops.

That said, don't misunderestimate Texas governors. Y'all did that once already. One thing you can say about Bush...nope, not a brain trust but he wasn't corrupt. Just one Perry example:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/03/rick-perry-texas-enterprise-fund-audit

The House decided this session to audit the fund. Even Perry's not-glaringly-stupid moves are stinky...he made the HPV vaccination routine for Texas schoolgirls, after he took some money from Merck and they gave his former COS a cushy gig. Then he rescinded the order (so he doesn't even meet the Simon Cameron standard of honesty).

 

[Ausmerican]

If you wanted to call it something else, that's fine with me too. How about, "religioff"?

 

[Corsair 115]

No, claiming that the meaning of words change over time is not the same thing as saying your invented quote. What ThePrestige said is nothing like the quote you invented and claimed he is saying.

You are not familiar with rhetorical devices in an argument? Okay then.

The first definition of religion as provided by Google (emphasis added):

1. The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.

I expect that first definition is the one most folks will go by. But whatever, I'm not so energized by it to get my knickers in a knot over it.

 

[theprestige]

But whatever, I'm not so energized by it to get my knickers in a knot over it.

Are you saying you don't object to me referring to atheism, as a moral reasoning from atheistic axioms, as a kind of religion?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

You are not familiar with rhetorical devices in an argument? Okay then.

The first definition of religion as provided by Google (emphasis added):

1. The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.

[ETA: And arguing against a strawman is not a legitimate argumentative device, even if you consider it a rhetorical device. My issue with your using it was the former. Lying can be an effective rhetorical device as well, but if you lied about a matter of fact in this discussion, I'd call you on it.]

You don't seem to have read my posts.

You don't believe Buddhism is conventionally considered a religion?

Also, you haven't read my previous post citing a bunch of legal cases that shows that for purposes of the First Amendment freedom of religion, atheism is the equivalent of a religion.

Anyway, I'm not personally arguing that atheism is religion. It is a point of creed, though.

Similarly, transubstantiationism isn't a religion. But it would be illegal to discriminate against transubstantiationists--and it would be considered religious discrimination to do so.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

But whatever, I'm not so energized by it to get my knickers in a knot over it.

That's irrelevant.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

FWIW, if you want to debate the conventional meaning of religion, the go-to resource is a decent dictionary, and not Google.

Here's the Merriam Webster entry for "religion". The one you picked up on in Google is 1b(1). That's the only usage that limits the word to considerations of a god or the supernatural. (By the way that "or" is a pretty big open door too, isn't it?)

1
a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>
b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2
: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3
archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4
: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

 

[Dorian Gray]

That's like a policy proposal based on the argument that government agencies may restrict the freedom to peaceably assemble without running afoul of the free assembly clause.

Or like an entire body of laws that restrict free speech without running afoul of the free speech clause.

 

[Belz...]

I'm curious though, since atheists don't have an inalienable right to be free from religion if I refuse to choose a god to worship will the state assign me one?

If so, I hope they assign a cool one to me. Like Odin, or something.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Perry is stupid for what he said. however, making it extra legal to say something that wasn't illegal is very stupid.