Rick Perry, mind like a steel trap I tells ya...

[Ladewig]

Senator Robert Nichols (R-Jacksonville) said “One of those freedoms is the freedom of speech, freedom of expression, and as the governor was saying the Constitution refers to the freedom of religion, not the freedom from religion.”

Perhaps Texas schools have bigger problems than deciding who may say Merry Christmas.

.....................
I wonder what will happen when the smart-ass students want Druid and Wiccan displays of winter celebrations

 

[Alferd_Packer]

Do kids still do Goth?

 

[Brainster]

While I actually agree in general with your point, I have to ask what you're responding to in this thread.

Or is this one of those kneejerk "must attack people who are criticizing a Republican" impulses?

Do you think what Rick Perry said is incorrect? That his statement somehow exposes that his mind is deficient in some way? Or perhaps you believe that RandFan was actually praising him?

 

[theprestige]

That's like a policy proposal based on the argument that government agencies may restrict the freedom to peaceably assemble without running afoul of the free assembly clause.

Maybe it is; I expect there's room for debate on the topic. Can a government agency engage in religious expression without automatically engaging in establishing a state religion and criminalizing non-believers? Governor Perry clearly thinks that when it comes to saying "Merry Christmas", the answer is yes.

I realize that some people disagree; just as I disagree with the OP's implication that Perry is some kind of idiot for taking this position on this subject. It is, I think, hardly the most charitable interpretation of Perry's position.

 

[rdaneel]

Maybe his trap is too effective? Reason gets in, but never escapes through his mouth?

I think it's more like a steel trap won't do much if you never open it.

 

[RandFan]

Do you think what Rick Perry said is incorrect? That his statement somehow exposes that his mind is deficient in some way? Or perhaps you believe that RandFan was actually praising him?

Do you think what you said has any contribution to this thread? What Perry said was idiotic no matter how you interpret it. Jefferson was clear. The founders intended to build a wall of separation between Church and state. Of course the religious are free to express themselves and of course there is nothing in the constitution that guarantees my life will be "free from religion". That's a fatuous premise. This nation guarantees freedom of religion and I know of no atheist who would have it any other way. We are concerned about the establishment of religion by the state. That's our complaint not this asinine straw man or silly understanding of what atheists really think.

That's NOT what atheists are complaining about. I would fight for the right of any religious person to express himself anywhere so long as it did not infringe on the 1st Amendment.

• Rick Perry's religion has nothing whatsoever to do with his official job as governor.
• What Rick Perry said is either a straw man or an absurd argument about the establishment clause or free exercise clause. If you have another option please to give it to me.

By all means, if you think Perry's remarks are defensible then defend them. But give me a valid argument as to why his remarks are not monumentally stupid or an idiotic straw man.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

So basically, under this law, a school or other government facility can have a nativity scene as long as they have a fake snowman next to it.

 

[dudalb]

While I actually agree in general with your point, I have to ask what you're responding to in this thread.

Or is this one of those kneejerk "must attack people who are criticizing a Republican" impulses?

I remember the days when a certain individual here ,though a Republican, would criticise other Republicans when they did something stupid. I noticied he stopped doing that in Early November of last year,and went into kneejerk defenses anytime a Republican was attacked for whatever reason. Sad.

 

[RandFan]

No surprise, the least tolerant religion, the one that cannot bear the mention of any other religion, is the one that claims not to be a religion at all.

I would like to remind people that many theists AND atheists came to the defense of the so called "mosque at ground zero".

Atheists very much believe in freedom OF religion. But, if that doesn't include the right to free my personal life of religion then it is meaningless.

• You have the right to worship a god.
• You have the right proselytize so long as you don't do so in an official (govt) capacity.
• I have the right not to worship a god.
• I have the right to propagate my beliefs so long as I don't do so in an official (govt) capacity.
• Atheists ask only for equal treatment under the law. If you have evidence to the contrary now would be a good time to post it.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Okay, **** it, atheism IS a religion. There.

 

[theprestige]

Okay, **** it, atheism IS a religion. There.

See, if you'd said humanism was a religion*, I'd probably agree with you.

In the sense of being a body of moral reasoning that follows from a set of commonly-recognized humanist axioms.

 

[RossFW]

The law in question:



The law is silly and unconstitutional as it clearly enumerates what the acceptable "established" religions are.

Yep.

Where is "Eid Mubarak" and "Ramadan Kareem"??

 

[RandFan]

Complaint: Perry veto threat violates state law

 

[RandFan]

Maybe it is; I expect there's room for debate on the topic. Can a government agency engage in religious expression without automatically engaging in establishing a state religion and criminalizing non-believers? Governor Perry clearly thinks that when it comes to saying "Merry Christmas", the answer is yes.

I realize that some people disagree; just as I disagree with the OP's implication that Perry is some kind of idiot for taking this position on this subject. It is, I think, hardly the most charitable interpretation of Perry's position.

• Christians in Texas are not in any threat of losing their religious freedom (evidence to the contrary please).
• Atheists and theists alike in Texas must fight regularly to keep religion out of govt (also see www.ffrf.org and Americans United for the Separation of Church and state).

Perry's actions (like his calling for prayer to end the states drought) are at best divisive and have no place in govt. Perry is supposed to protect the rights of all of his constituents (he's supposed to be objective when it comes to religious matters). That Perry engages in sophistry and polemics for political purposes makes him cynical or stupid (feel free to provide another option).

I think suggesting that he's as dumb as a bag of hammers over this IS being very, very charitable.

BTW: I don't mind that a politician says that he prays and he or she urges their constituents to follow their conscience and if it helps them to pray then to pray but show respect for those who don't believe. We really aren't the enemy. And people who act in such a boorish manner as Perry has deserve to be called out on it. I resent his either engaging in a divisive straw man and/or cynically using his office to advance Christianity and marginalize part of his constituency.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I resent his either engaging in a divisive straw man and/or cynically using his office to advance Christianity and marginalize part of his constituency.

But that is only because you still see him as the governor of Texas. He isn't, he is the future ex-governor of Texas and is acting that part perfectly.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Its about time someone defended Xmas. Do you know how badly its being suppressed? Its June and there is only ONE full aisle of Xmas stuff at the Walmart. I was expecting Santas and Jesusi to begin appearing all over no later than March.

 

[rocketdodger]

Texas Gov. Rick Perry: Americans have no right to freedom from religion

It must be awfully damn hard to be a Christian in today's America. I salute the proud and courageous Texas governor for sticking to his principles and standing up for freedom OF religion.

I'm curious though, since atheists don't have an inalienable right to be free from religion if I refuse to choose a god to worship will the state assign me one?

The GOP, working hard to make America a Christian nation (AKA theocracy).

I don't understand why this is controversial. A cursory look at that article makes it clear exactly what he is saying, and there isn't anything wrong with it.

You don't get freedom from religion. I never expected it. Why do you?

We don't get to tell people that they can't express their religion. Period. That's what freedom *of* religion means -- you can always express your religion.

 

[Dr. Keith]

That's what freedom *of* religion means -- you can always express your religion.

True, unless you are doing so as the government.

Such as the governor signing a law that gives preference to two religions. But that would never happen.

 

[RandFan]

I don't understand why this is controversial. A cursory look at that article makes it clear exactly what he is saying, and there isn't anything wrong with it.

You don't get freedom from religion. I never expected it. Why do you?

We don't get to tell people that they can't express their religion. Period. That's what freedom *of* religion means -- you can always express your religion.

Why does Perry need to say what he said? Who is arguing that they need to be "free from religion"? No one. That's the problem. It's a giant straw man. I don't know how many times I can say this but Christians (and other theists) are not in any threat from atheists. No atheist I know of is calling for the banning of churches, church billboards, bibles in hotel rooms, etc., etc..

There IS something wrong with it. It's divisive and marginalizes atheists who actually want people to have freedom to worship any god they like. There IS something wrong with it because atheists don't expect freedom from religion in the sense that we will never hear Christmas music at the mall or that we will never see a nativity scene or a religious billboard or that the airwaves should be free of religious messages. That's a straw man for political purposes and that's what's wrong with it.

 

[RandFan]

No atheist I know of is calling for the banning of churches, church billboards, bibles in hotel rooms, etc., etc..

Please, if anyone has evidence of atheists in Texas or anywhere else in America calling for laws to ban religion, religious displays or religious expression (I'm not talking about law suits for equal treatment) I'd love to see it.