Richard Dawkins -- Islamophobia?

I honestly don't get it. Even if I disagreed with Dawkins and didn't like his tone, I wouldn't waste my time raging about him (just like I don't waste my time raging about Anne Coulter, or Bill O'Reilly). I don't understand people, who, in principle, agree with Dawkins, but rage against him because they don't think he's towed the line the way they have, or is a "slacktivist". Who cares what Dawkins does or doesn't do? What's important is what you're doing. Dawkins has his own priorities, just like you have yours.

The political correctness thing is a problem, and so far, I haven't heard anybody come up with a way to help solve it. The idea that Dawkins is inexperienced on the FGM issue, and so shouldn't talk about or criticize it, is exactly the sort of attitude that Leyla Hussein is talking about. There are too many European-American liberals shaking their heads over what a tragedy FGM is, but don't want to take a stand for fear of being politically incorrect. They aren't Muslims. Their skin is too pale. Or they are men. So, they shouldn't talk about FGM. They shouldn't try to fight it. Because they don't "understand", they don't get it. I think that's even worse than slacktivism.
 
Why waste the English language on an illiterate pedophile, and the cult of the supernatural he started 1400 years ago. Better instead to educate the witless armies of Islam who still don’t get it! Yes, it’s 2014 girls and boys.




It is most important to understand the nature of what we see, not what we want to see.
 
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Humes fork said:
They what to shut up critics of Islam.
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Close. They want to shut up critics of Islam who aren't Muslims, Arabs, Africans, etc. Apparently, European-Americans are too "privileged" to talk about FGM, Islam, or anything else their poor ignorant minds can't handle. This is precisely the attitude that Leyla Hussein is upset about! If you're told that you're "privileged", and that imposing your morality onto other people is "cultural imperialism", then you might be willing to sign a petition for the "right" to perform Female Genital Mutilation. Because what's wrong for your culture might be right for another one?

BTW, if it wasn't for Dawkins, I would have no idea who Leyla Hussein is. Now, I guess you could say that's because I'm a "slacktivist", and maybe you're right...but the fact remains. Like it or not, Dawkins has access to a certain audience, and increasing awareness of FGM within that audience is valuable.
 
Craig B said:
As stated, there is a tendency among some people to use religion, and in particular Islam in places where where most of its adherents are recent immigrants or their near descendants, as a proxy for race.
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Therefore it's OK to bash all critics of Islam as racist?

Broad brush anyone?
 
Axiom_Blade said:
Close. They want to shut up critics of Islam who aren't Muslims, Arabs, Africans, etc. Apparently, European-Americans are too "privileged" to talk about FGM, Islam, or anything else their poor ignorant minds can't handle.
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Um, no.

Like it or not, Dawkins has access to a certain audience, and increasing awareness of FGM within that audience is valuable.
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That would be a lot more convincing had Dawkins' website actually mentioned Hussein's work and not snipped out the mention of her organization's name from the cut-and-pasted article.

The article about fourth-wave feminism did that for the co-founder of Hussein's organization, which means that in the category of "actually increasing awareness of FGM/C and the campaigners and organizations working to end the practice", the score is Feminists 1, Dawkins 0.
 
A'isha said:
Um, no.
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Um, yes.

Why do you think that people signed that petition?

That would be a lot more convincing had Dawkins' website actually mentioned Hussein's work and not snipped out the mention of her organization's name from the cut-and-pasted article.
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No. That was not snipped out. Her organization is mentioned in the last paragraph.

Ms Hussein, who is co-founder of the anti-FGM charity Daughters of Eve, is calling on the Home Office to take responsibility for drawing up an action plan to eliminate FGM in this country.
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tsig said:
Therefore it's OK to bash all critics of Islam as racist.
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No, of course not! Here is what I first wrote on this topic in this thread, post #33.
I very much take Dawkins' point as a valid one. But there is one consideration he's missed. Thank Heaven, nowadays racism is unacceptable in polite society. People who wish to continue being racists therefore often find excuses or proxies for racism. Because, at least here in the UK, most Muslims are recent immigrants or close descendants of immigrants of darker pigmentation, opposition to Islam is often used as such a proxy, precisely because being opposed to a particular, or any, religious belief is perfectly in order. The liberal intelligentsia, being liberal and intelligent, is aware of this, and suspects that it may frequently be a motive in criticism of Islam - read Muslims - which it encounters. And it is not rarely right, though in particular cases it may be wrong.
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Bold added here.
 
Back in the early eighties I remember the matter of FGM being mentioned and in those days cultural (moral?) relativism was the norm from both men and women. 'We do not have the right to interfere...' and so forth...

I for one am glad that the subject can now be discussed for what it is, an irrational and dangerous abuse of the human body.

Regardless of the gender and in whatever way they do their bit to oppose it and bring it to light to those in power, their actions should be welcomed.
 
Mister Agenda said:
Their diversity should prevent you from thinking you can say anything about them that applies to all of them. The best criticism is precise and accurate.
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The belief that the Koran is the final and immutable word of God, and that "there is no god but God and Mohammad is his prophet" applies to all of them.
 
A'isha said:
Which is completely tangential to the point Mister Agenda and I are making.
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Not really, not when I consider any belief in Islam to be unacceptable. I judge religions by their most extreme members, because religion, based on nothing real, provides justification for atrocities that would not otherwise be there.
 
Polaris said:
Not really, not when I consider any belief in Islam to be unacceptable. I judge religions by their most extreme members, because religion, based on nothing real, provides justification for atrocities that would not otherwise be there.
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You sure as hell don't need religion to justify atrocities.
 
A'isha said:
You sure as hell don't need religion to justify atrocities.
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That wasn't my claim. My claim was that religion provides justification that would otherwise not be there.

9/11 would not have happened without Islam. The witch hunts and Inquisition would not have happened without Christianity.
 
Polaris said:
That wasn't my claim. My claim was that religion provides justification that would otherwise not be there.

9/11 would not have happened without Islam. The witch hunts and Inquisition would not have happened without Christianity.
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As someone else pointed out, I as an atheist wouldn't want to be judged by Stalin or Mao, so therefore I don't judge Muslims by Bin Laden, Catholics by Torquemada, or Protestants by Samuel Sewall.
 
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