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Retroactively diagnosing people with autism [also: the Amish]

Wrong. They mix with modern society all the time and they make use of technology when they see that it makes work more efficient; many Amish have cell phones and even computers. They don't teach that modern life is evil, only that their simple way of life is better.
I am aware of that. I don't consider them a cult per say, I do consider them harmful.
It's true that most Amish kids leave school at 14, but those who want to continue study are encouraged.
Please tell me what they are taught? I'm under the impression it is basic....very very very basic.
Nobody stops them from leaving the community if they want to - it isn't a cult.
How do you leave a society where all your social support structure is there and you lack any actual education or skills to support yourself? Farm? Make quilts?
 
I think the worst thing the Amish do is operate puppy mills. Other than that, I think they're the least of anyone's worries.
 
How do you leave a society where all your social support structure is there and you lack any actual education or skills to support yourself? Farm? Make quilts?

It's not just that. In many Amish communities, you are free to leave, but you are shunned. You are cut off from the community, your family, etc. And it's not just like you aren't allowed to live there, you aren't even allowed to TALK to your family again, even if you left in good standing in the community, and simply did not wish to be Amish anymore.

I'm not claiming all Amish communities/families are the same. However, in ones where shunning does occur, I feel Rumpspringa is nothing more than the illusion of choice. How likely (and safe) is it for you to venture out in the world with only a rudimentary education and knowing that you will have absolutely no social or emotional support because you are cut off from all your friends, family, etc? Also added with the fact that you simply weren't raised to operate in the outside world (even if you aren't completely isolated from it).

I don't think it's a cult, or that it's child abuse, but I do find it sad for those who do wish to leave but don't want to lose their families, or don't know how to get by financially.
 
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They are hiding from modernity. Many think them cute and quaint.

I find their entire lifestyle where they mentally retard their kids with outdated nonsense to be child abuse. Their kids can never leave.
How can they join modern society when they have the education on a 18th century farmer? What a waste.
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Saw a bunch of Mennonite(?) kids on 20th Century bicycles in the peninsula in Maryland a few years back.
Looked normal to me.
Other than the straw safety helmets. :)
 

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I don't think it's a cult, or that it's child abuse, but I do find it sad for those who do wish to leave but don't want to lose their families, or don't know how to get by financially.
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Religion is about control, innit?
Perfect example.
 
.
I sometimes wonder about me.

I first heard about aspergers syndrome when my nephew was diagnosed. Looking back I've known a lot of people (myself included) who would probably be diagnosed with autism if they had been born in the last decade or so. I don't think there has been a change in the numbers or kinds of people with autism, just in how they are labeled.
 
It's either better detection of the condition due to more alertness by the diagnosee, or over-diagnosing because it's easier than looking for less obvious causes.
I'd go for #2.
 
I've some controversy over DSM-V, possibly being too aggressive in diagnosis.
With the existing problems with over-diagnosis currently, which apparently lists normal kids behaviors as aberrant and needing medication, I kinda wonder about the whole thing, seeing as there's a few thousand years of living that seems to work out OK without excessive interest in "fixing" problems which may be transitory or non-existent.
 
I've some controversy over DSM-V, possibly being too aggressive in diagnosis.
With the existing problems with over-diagnosis currently, which apparently lists normal kids behaviors as aberrant and needing medication,
Specious claim, not evidence.
I kinda wonder about the whole thing, seeing as there's a few thousand years of living that seems to work out OK
Except for all the ones that didn’t, the ‘village idiot’ and the suicides.
without excessive interest in "fixing" problems which may be transitory or non-existent.

I notice that you aren't citing any specific, as is usually the case. (In people talking about overdiagnosis.) (Which is not generally an issue in autism.)

Their are people who are trained to use the DSM, they follow the criteria, but I am glad to know that your arm chair impressions matter more than facts. Now if you are referring to people who are untrained and just reading stuff and saying 'I have autism', then that might make sense.

I am again asking, so what other causes in autism, you made the claim, do you even know the criteria or what they mean?

Do you?

What are the other causes in autism of the over diagnosis?
 
Beats the **** out of me.
You guys what's in the know on this stuff, lead us to the light.
 
Beats the **** out of me.
You guys what's in the know on this stuff, lead us to the light.
I don't have much to say about the level of dishonesty in this garbage based statement. No evidence, not even a basic understanding of the issue and not even the decency to honestly come clean when called out.

Sounds like any other creaotard, anti-vaxxer or alternative med supporter out there.
 
Beats the **** out of me.
You guys what's in the know on this stuff, lead us to the light.

So you can't back your claim?

Sigh, you made it not me.

If you wish to discuss the pressures that lead to misdiagnosis in children I will gladly discuss them in another thread, the main one being the desperation of parents and inaccurate reporting. the second one being the 'shot in the dark' nature of diagnosis in mental health treatment, where with inaccurate information the doctor is making a guesstimate, the third being palliative treatment of symptoms when an accurate diagnosis does not lead to resolving treatment.

Now in autism, starting with the heavy duty side not the 'asperger's' side, there is a cluster of traits.

[The following is from Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders: DSM IV]
(I) A total of six (or more) items from (A), (B), and (C), with at least two from (A), and one each from (B) and (C)

(A) qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
Now there are metrics that are used despite the use of the word qualitative, which is a poor choice that I disagree with. It is important to note that these are pervasive behaviors, and that they should manifest in all areas, setting and people. They are not better accounted for by something like social anxiety.
1. marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
As in that they don’t, they do not use postures , facial expressions and eye to eye contact. Marked means that it is VERY noticeable. One area where people who do not understand the DSM misunderstand, this mean VERY noticeable all the thime
2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
As in not just that they do not have a friend, but that they do NOT develop those skills at all. As in this is not social anxiety.
3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people, (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
very odd behavior, they often appear flat and do not share joy or reflect the joy of others. You can tell them that you just one the lotto, they don’t care. They could have won the lotto, they do not express it. No happy birthday.
4. lack of social or emotional reciprocity ( note: in the description, it gives the following as examples: not actively participating in simple social play or games, preferring solitary activities, or involving others in activities only as tools or "mechanical" aids )
Now that one I know is often misinterpreted by people who do not know what it is. There is no social reciprocity, so it shows in some strange ways, social distance, laughing when really not appropriate.
When it talks about the solitary thing, imagine them playing a with a block, the same block every day, over and over. “Fire”, play with the block, time to eat, play with the block. “here is another block”, nope it HAS to be that one.

It is like they bond with objects rather than humans.
(B) qualitative impairments in communication as manifested by at least one of the following:
1. delay in, or total lack of, the development of spoken language (not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through alternative modes of communication such as gesture or mime)
This one is really marked, in that they do not learn to communicate unless there is intervention, and delay means way outside the mormal range of acquisition.
2. in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others
Imagine that, in a kindergarten, again not social shyness, not a desire not to talk, but lacking the ability to make and sustain conversation, it is hard to describe without citing paragraphs and paragraphs, they lack the ability, it is not a will issue.
3. stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language
As in perseveration, repeating the word ‘buzz’ for hours and hours and hours, especially if when they hum it, day after day. Idiosyncratic not like most children, they only refer to something by that special word.
4. lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social imitative play appropriate to developmental level
As playing with a spoon. Only a spoon. Having to say the exact same phrases in all ‘play’.
Not like OCD.
(C) restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least two of the following:
1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
As in they ONLY talk about it, “That dog just got ran over”, baseball, “please to meet the president”, baseball, “Your pants are on fire”, baseball. All the time, nothing else. Not about food, the weather, their pants being on fire.
2. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
3. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
4. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects
A truly strange one, like they have to touch your feet, they don’t look at e your face, just your feet, for every one and everything.
(II) Delays or abnormal functioning in at least one of the following areas, with onset prior to age 3 years:
(A) social interaction
(B) language as used in social communication
(C) symbolic or imaginative play

(III) The disturbance is not better accounted for by Rett's Disorder or Childhood Disintegrative Disorder


So suggest alternative causes and we can discuss how they would hopefully have been ruled out. Granted many people do 'assesment' who are in no way qualified , like teachers.
 
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