Retroactively diagnosing people with autism [also: the Amish]

[The Charnel Expanse]

With the MMR vaccine theory having gone the way of the Loch Ness Monster, a void exists in the theorizing of the source of the autism "epidemic" that people are scrambling to fill.
Everything from food additives to fish consumption to environmental allergens have been blamed.
But at the same time, others are working to backstop the panic by rightly pointing out that autism was not given a concrete definition until 1938 and not recognized as a separate diagnosis until 1981 [and not introduced to the layman until Rain Man] - just a few years before the ongoing "epidemic" took hold and diagnoses skyrocketed. The same line of logic holds that a lot of people in past centuries, including some famous ones such as Michaelangelo exhibited traits consistent with what we now attribute to autism.

Still, there's this one statistic that is commonly cited and begs several questions:
The rate of autism among the Amish is 1 in 15000, which is less than 1% that of the rate in the general population.

Who can offer explanation or refutation to this statistic? And while you're at it, tell me where all these Amish people are hiding, because I had no idea there were that many of them.

 

[Miss_Kitt]

Actually, there are autistic people among the Amish. The preliminary studies suggest that there may be a lower occurance rate than among the general population; however, that correspondence will be true with any number of causes, from the environmental to the genetic.

One example: http://imfar.confex.com/imfar/2010/webprogram/Paper7336.html

Citing a research paper/project interviewing Amish children and their parents to screen for possible ASDs, then having the children assessed for actual diagnosis by trained psychologists...

There are large numbers of neurological disorders that occur at higher and lower rates in various populations. This is not particularly remarkable.

Happy to be of assistance, Miss_Kitt

 

[Dancing David]

The issue I would see is that the amish, non-menonite, IE old school, have their own schools (at least in Illinois), so their children are not screened by teh early education system.

So are they just lumped with the 'mute' and 'retarded' children. So the reported raste is probably not an accurate differential diagnosis, if there is a difference it would be a great research study.

 

[paximperium]

http://photoninthedarkness.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/autism_and_mr_cht.jpg
One of my favorite graphs. Why hasn't anyone looked at the sudden drop in Mental Retardation in children? Are we doing something right?

 

[Modified]

And while you're at it, tell me where all these Amish people are hiding, because I had no idea there were that many of them.

Ohio, Indiana, and Pennsylvania, mostly.

Lots of them live here, and lots more come for "Amish spring break".

 

[paximperium]

Ohio, Indiana, and Pennsylvania, mostly.

Lots of them live here, and lots more come for "Amish spring break".

They are hiding from modernity. Many think them cute and quaint.

I find their entire lifestyle where they mentally retard their kids with outdated nonsense to be child abuse. Their kids can never leave.
How can they join modern society when they have the education on a 18th century farmer? What a waste.

 

[technoextreme]

Still, there's this one statistic that is commonly cited and begs several questions:
The rate of autism among the Amish is 1 in 15000, which is less than 1% that of the rate in the general population.

Who can offer explanation or refutation to this statistic? And while you're at it, tell me where all these Amish people are hiding, because I had no idea there were that many of them.

Isn't the origin of this statistic from the article that Age of Autism gets its name from?

 

[Slimething]

[qimg]http://photoninthedarkness.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/autism_and_mr_cht.jpg[/qimg]
http://photoninthedarkness.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/autism_and_mr_cht.jpg
One of my favorite graphs. Why hasn't anyone looked at the sudden drop in Mental Retardation in children? Are we doing something right?

Now that's fascinating! Do you have anything more that sheds light on that? Thanks.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Now that's fascinating! Do you have anything more that sheds light on that? Thanks.

Just in case you are missing it (and, if not you, some others maybe) the point paximperium is making is that people who would have been classified in past years as "mentally retarded" are now being identified as autistic. Add the graphs together.

 

[Ysidro]

They are hiding from modernity. Many think them cute and quaint.

I find their entire lifestyle where they mentally retard their kids with outdated nonsense to be child abuse. Their kids can never leave.
How can they join modern society when they have the education on a 18th century farmer? What a waste.

You're wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa

 

[Slimething]

Just in case you are missing it (and, if not you, some others maybe) the point paximperium is making is that people who would have been classified in past years as "mentally retarded" are now being identified as autistic. Add the graphs together.

That would be the obvious conclusion but I have a kid that's been diagnosed with autism who could not possibly be considered retarded. He's actually brilliant. (Yes, it skips generations.) Because of him and his brother's ADHD, I've met a lot of parents with unusual kids that could also not be considered retarded in any fashion.

I'm wondering if something is afoot on the order of better medical care, nutrition, etc. that could be signaling an effect away from true retardation towards more manageable deficits. Let me know if that's absolutely not happening.

Thanks.

 

[PixyMisa]

You're wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa

I think the point was more that they're crippled by having an 18th-century upbringing in a 21st-century world, not that they're actually forbidden to leave.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...
One of my favorite graphs. Why hasn't anyone looked at the sudden drop in Mental Retardation in children? Are we doing something right?

Another point that is often missed, since the rate of autism diagnosis in children went UP when thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines, how do we know thimerosal wasn't having a protective effect?

 

[money]

Now that's fascinating! Do you have anything more that sheds light on that? Thanks.

Here's the whole post from that author -

http://photoninthedarkness.com/?s=mental+retardation

The comments are worth reading as well... he replies to every comment and question in the posts that I read. Impressive stuff.

 

[SteveSauerwein]

That would be the obvious conclusion but I have a kid that's been diagnosed with autism who could not possibly be considered retarded. He's actually brilliant. (Yes, it skips generations.) Because of him and his brother's ADHD, I've met a lot of parents with unusual kids that could also not be considered retarded in any fashion.

I'm wondering if something is afoot on the order of better medical care, nutrition, etc. that could be signaling an effect away from true retardation towards more manageable deficits. Let me know if that's absolutely not happening.

Thanks.

I think that until recently, children with autism who were not on the low end of the intelligence spectrum (i.e. retarded) simply were not diagnosed. They were just viewed as socially awkward.

 

[Dancing David]

Ohio, Indiana, and Pennsylvania, mostly.

Lots of them live here, and lots more come for "Amish spring break".

There is a small pool in central Illinois around the town of Arthur.

 

[Dancing David]

You're wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa

The Old Covenant and New Covenant are having a very slow schism here as well, besides those who become Mennoites, many who still wear the traditional garb, now own cars and go shopping in the 'big city'.

 

[Dancing David]

That would be the obvious conclusion but I have a kid that's been diagnosed with autism who could not possibly be considered retarded. He's actually brilliant. (Yes, it skips generations.) Because of him and his brother's ADHD, I've met a lot of parents with unusual kids that could also not be considered retarded in any fashion.

I'm wondering if something is afoot on the order of better medical care, nutrition, etc. that could be signaling an effect away from true retardation towards more manageable deficits. Let me know if that's absolutely not happening.

Thanks.

Um, the more severe end of the spectrum would have been 'classed retarded' until the mid-seventies. The wide spread use of differential diagnosis and early childhood screening did not begin until the 1980s and did not become prevalen until the 90s and 00s.

 

[paximperium]

You're wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa

Pixy kind of clarified my point.
These kids are kept from modern society, told how bad it is and given the education of elementary school student.
What do you expect them to do?
Most will either run screaming back to mommy or become people without the education or social support to function in modern society.

 

[sophia8]

Pixy kind of clarified my point.
These kids are kept from modern society, told how bad it is and given the education of elementary school student.

Wrong. They mix with modern society all the time and they make use of technology when they see that it makes work more efficient; many Amish have cell phones and even computers. They don't teach that modern life is evil, only that their simple way of life is better.
It's true that most Amish kids leave school at 14, but those who want to continue study are encouraged. Nobody stops them from leaving the community if they want to - it isn't a cult.

The Rumspringa tradition may be a factor in their low (reported) levels of autism. There's a genetic factor to autism and it''s been reported that autism appears to occur in families that have members with 'eccentric' personalities who don't fit in with the norm. So perhaps, by allowing those teenagers who are awkward, rebellious and 'don't fit' to leave the community, these autism-associated genes are being selectively bred out of Amish communities?
Just a theory.....