Restoring Honor Rally 8/28

[MattusMaximus]

So I'm starting to get the feeling the Tea Party is really a kind of stealth Christian Supremacist movement, with all the racism, shallow jingoist mentality, and choking overdose of Everything in the Name of Jesus you'd expect.

In a way, it's almost the inverse of the Republican Party. Instead of a fundamentally political movement that relies on a small number of religious issues to shanghai a large number of grass roots activists, the Tea Party seems fundamentally religious, relying on a small number of political issues to shanghai its activists.

I'm not all the way convinced yet, but I'm certainly getting there.

I've been saying this for over a year here now: the Tea Party is going to end up being the latest incarnation of the Religious Right and will ultimately serve their purpose to attempt to use the power of the government to foist their version of Christianity on the rest of us (so much for "smaller government" ). Beck & Palin's influence in the movement serve to reinforce this view.

Nothing new here. Last time around, in the mid 90s, it was the "Contract with America" and once the GOP got control the religious whackjobs went crazy drunk with power, culminating in the Terri Schiavo lunacy before most of the nation clued in. This time, it's the Tea Party... and the wheels on the bus go 'round & 'round...

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

As usual the charges of "bigoted racism" fall flat when one looks at what Beck or Palin actually said.

You judge this based on the fact these two have learned a few controversial things to avoid, like signs depicting Obama as Hitler. The question remains, just what honor needs restoring? Which "American values" do you think these guys are referring to?

Are they bigoted against the unemployed thinking an unemployed person must be a lazy bum? Poor people don't work hard? Mexicans are ruining the country? Muslims are anti-Christian? Gays are sinners?

Those are examples of the "problems" this group claims the country currently has.

...
Then again, on second thought, I fail to see why either's record as "political activist" and "community organizer" would make him a worse candidate for the presidency than some other politicians.

Because we all know Obama's Harvard degree and record are such worthless accomplishments...

 

[Rodney]

You judge this based on the fact these two have learned a few controversial things to avoid, like signs depicting Obama as Hitler.

http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler.html#moveon

 

[Accidental Martyr]

http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler.html#moveon

I thought we were talking about Glenn Beck.

 

[Rodney]

I thought we were talking about Glenn Beck.

I'm simply pointing out to Skeptic Ginger that the number of Obama as Hitler allusions have a long way to go before they rival the number of Bush as Hitler allusions.

 

[SezMe]

I guess the debate is whether Beck is a Nehemiah Scudder, who really believes the crap he is saying, or a Lonesome Rhodes (The Andy Griffith charecter in A Face IN the Crowd) who is cynically exploiting his followerers for personal gain.

You don't believe him when he, himself, says it is the latter? Ok, not the cynical part.

 

[bynmdsue]

How is it "racist" to portray Obama as Hitler?

It can be wrong or stupid or whatever but how is it "racist" ?

 

[Accidental Martyr]

How is it "racist" to portray Obama as Hitler?

It can be wrong or stupid or whatever but how is it "racist" ?

Yes, I would consider this to be a much more racist image.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/17/obama.witchdoctor.teaparty/index.html

 

[bynmdsue]

http://theblogprof.blogspot.com/2009/09/cnn-going-green-recycles-old-news-obama.html

How about the pic of Bush and Condi at the bottom of the page? Is it half racist?

 

[bit_pattern]

http://theblogprof.blogspot.com/2009/09/cnn-going-green-recycles-old-news-obama.html

How about the pic of Bush and Condi at the bottom of the page? Is it half racist?

I certainly never saw that back during the Bush years, for all we know the author could have photoshopped it himself.

 

[SezMe]

How is it "racist" to portray Obama as Hitler?

It can be wrong or stupid or whatever but how is it "racist" ?

Because he's Kenyan, not Aryan.

 

[Skeptic]

Either way, the guy is despicable. And I am fairly conservative on several issues.

Yes, I agree.

An interesting similarity is found in this article.

It's a bit like the so-called "million man march". Farrakhan is a disgusting loon, but his message during the actual march was -- for a change -- not racist, but one about self-responsibility and self-reliance. Most people who came to the march wanted and expected to hear that, not his zionist-UFO-conspiracy nonsense.

Still, I 100% agree that they should find someone else to give the message.In the case of both marches one is thinking, "well, that's very nice, but why choose this guy to tell it?"

 

[Skeptic]

So I'm starting to get the feeling the Tea Party is really a kind of stealth Christian Supremacist movement, with all the racism, shallow jingoist mentality, and choking overdose of Everything in the Name of Jesus you'd expect.

"Stealth" being the operative word here -- namely, "something I've got little to no evidence for".

I've heard Obama is s stealth Muslim. I've got no evidence, but he's a stealth Muslim, so what did you expect?

 

[DC]

No one's covering it over here, at least not the important question:


Did he cry?

he tried to, but he is a lousy actor.

 

[Skeptic]

You judge this based on the fact these two have learned a few controversial things to avoid, like signs depicting Obama as Hitler.

So when the left-wingers actually showed Bush as Hitler in signs, well, it was a case of "dissent is the highest form of patriotism".

Now that the right-wingers do not show Obama as Hitler, you claim they committed the thoughtcrime of wanting to do it, and as we all know, once Obama was elected, dissent is no longer the highest form of patriotism -- it is now the highest form of racism.

Unless and until another Republican president is elected, when "so-and-so is Hitler" becomes "patriotic dissent" again.

The question remains, just what honor needs restoring? Which "American values" do you think these guys are referring to?

Well, some people think Obama's massive spending is a bad idea, and that the American ideal is one of a government takeover of industry to show them how to run things right -- as in General Motors -- being a bad idea. Or that a government that governs as little as possible, not as much as possible, is preferable. As for honor, there is thinking that As for honor, kowtowing to a bunch of dictators while threatening and ignoring friendly nations is not exactly honorable.

A specific example? Sure. "Government Motors", in line with its new view that ideology (in this case environmentalism) beats the market, produced the pathetic, overpriced Chevy Volt, a hybrid car that gets 40 miles (ooooooh!) on its electric motor, selling for $41,000 -- of which $7500 is a government rebate (that is, other people's tax money) for being politically correct in "protecting the environment" -- which, even after this rebate, has the space and performance of a $15,000 car. This seems in a slight violation of the tradition American belief in the free market, since to produce what people want to buy tends to produce this, while producing what the government thinks is good for them for ideological reasons tends to produce this.

(H'm -- come to think of it, I think the second car is a better choice according to "Government Motors" new ideology. It's smaller and takes less gas, thus protecting the environment; it doesn't cause so many accidents by driving too fast, showing how much you care about road safety; cheaper so that the working class can afford it, avoiding unwanted social polarization between rich and poor; and it has numerous other ideological advantages. Does anybody actually want to buy it? What are you, a racist or something?)

I could give some more examples.

You use words like "racist" not as descriptions, but a thought-stopping cliche against any argument you dislike or disagree with. You know, just like the only possible reason to oppose the GZ mosque is bigotry. Not that this is a one-way street: when Muslim thugs -- I mean "youths" -- stoned an Israeli dance group, you came to their defense. Politically incorrect opposition is "racism and bigotry"; politically correct racism and bigotry are "opposition".

 

[SezMe]

A specific example? Sure. "Government Motors", in line with its new view that ideology (in this case environmentalism) beats the market, produced the pathetic, overpriced Chevy Volt, a hybrid car that gets 40 miles (ooooooh!) on its electric motor, selling for $41,000 -- of which $7500 is a government rebate (that is, other people's tax money) for being politically correct in "protecting the environment" -- which, even after this rebate, has the space and performance of a $15,000 car. This seems in a slight violation of the tradition American belief in the free market, since to produce what people want to buy tends to produce this, while producing what the government thinks is good for them for ideological reasons tends to produce this.

This is funny, Skeptic. Obama has been in office two years. How long ago do you think GM decided to build the Volt?

 

[Ducky]

Well, some people think Obama's massive spending is a bad idea, and that the American ideal is one of a government takeover of industry to show them how to run things right -- as in General Motors -- being a bad idea. Or that a government that governs as little as possible, not as much as possible, is preferable. As for honor, there is thinking that As for honor, kowtowing to a bunch of dictators while threatening and ignoring friendly nations is not exactly honorable.

A specific example? Sure. "Government Motors", in line with its new view that ideology (in this case environmentalism) beats the market, produced the pathetic, overpriced Chevy Volt, a hybrid car that gets 40 miles (ooooooh!) on its electric motor, selling for $41,000 -- of which $7500 is a government rebate (that is, other people's tax money) for being politically correct in "protecting the environment" -- which, even after this rebate, has the space and performance of a $15,000 car. This seems in a slight violation of the tradition American belief in the free market, since to produce what people want to buy tends to produce this, while producing what the government thinks is good for them for ideological reasons tends to produce this.

From this link:

With fully charged batteries, enough electrical energy will be stored to power the Volt up to 40 miles (64 km), a distance longer than the daily commute for 75% of Americans,[5] whose average commute is 33 miles (53 km).[6] After 40 miles (64 km), a small 4-cylinder internal combustion engine using premium-grade[7] gasoline creates electricity on-board using a 55 kW (74 hp) generator to extend the Volt's range to more than 300 miles (483 km).[8][9]

and

Once the Volt's battery has discharged to the estimated 30% lower State of Charge (SoC) limit, the engine starts and supplies power to the electric motor to continue driving the car and maintains the battery charge at 30%.[53] The Volt's range-extending gasoline engine is expected to get approximately 50 mpg-US (4.7 L/100 km; 60 mpg-imp) on the city cycle of the EPA's test while operating in this Charge Sustaining (CS) mode.[citation needed]

Bold mine.

Huh. Sounds a lot less crazy when you realize they're targeting this for commuters, and yet it can still get way better mileage than many cars out there today when running on the gas engine - and a fairly decent range per tank. That's not to say it doesn't have issues, but it's about on par with other hybrids for range and mpg, and attempts to maximize battery use.

But how is this a diversion from American Values, rhetoric about big spending and libruls aside and considering the big spending has been done by both parties for 50 years?

If I were arguing your point, I would more point out that what needs to get back to American values is a reversal of warrant-less wiretapping, repeal of amnesty for telcos involved in illegal wiretapping, and laws prohibiting digital snooping such as police-installed gps units without warrants. You know, that whole unreasonable search and seizure bit in the constitution?

However I don't see Beck talking about that either. All I saw was a tent revival dressed up as a march on Washington.

 

[Mumbles]

You use words like "racist" not as descriptions, but a thought-stopping cliche against any argument you dislike or disagree with. You know, just like the only possible reason to oppose the GZ mosque is bigotry. Not that this is a one-way street: when Muslim thugs -- I mean "youths" -- stoned an Israeli dance group, you came to their defense. Politically incorrect opposition is "racism and bigotry"; politically correct racism and bigotry are "opposition".

Please.

Just last week, Palin demanded that Laura Schlessinger "reload", after she repeatedly used the N-word while stereotyping black people and demanding that a caller take racist claims with good humor. Beck has stated, with no evidence, that Obama hates white people and called universal health care "reparations".

This isn't difficult., They aren't called racists because of views someone dislikes, they're called racists because of the racism.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

How is it "racist" to portray Obama as Hitler?

It can be wrong or stupid or whatever but how is it "racist" ?

There is some overlap here, so it isn't black and white.

First, there are a handful of right wing blacks who buy into the right wing agenda. The Tea Baggers, et. al., have no qualms parading said blacks out as evidence the right wingers are not racist.

It is true, conservative and racist are not synonymous. But those conservative non-racists are in denial that the conservative racists exist or are part of the crowd. The racism is coming from the right wingers who blame and dislike any foreigners they perceive as invading the country. Then there are the more intolerant Christians who are intolerant of everyone not Christian. And there are a large number of white Southern conservatives who left the anti-segregationist Democratic Party back in the 60s and 70s. They still have a fair amount of lingering racism among them.

What is it this diverse group have in common? It is intolerance for people they view as not one of them.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

So when the left-wingers actually showed Bush as Hitler in signs, well, it was a case of "dissent is the highest form of patriotism".

I think the Bush as Alfred E Newman was more appropriate than Bush as Hitler.

But let's look at the reasons behind such accusations. After 9/11, Bush had thousands of Muslims rounded up and deported. Bush instituted a system of torture. He incarcerated people without trials. Bush increased spying on law abiding citizens on a logarithmic scale. He flaunted the Constitution by simply ignoring separation of powers on these issues.

If you can list the equivalent specific actions Obama has undertaken, I'd have a different view of the criticism of Obama calling him dangerous and a socialist and depicting him as Hitler. Has Obama reversed all of Bush's damage as fast as I'd like to see it reversed? No. But tell me what Obama has initiated that is anything close to the scale Bush damaged this country.



I'll get to the rest of your post in a bit.