Restoring Honor Rally 8/28

[Skeptic]

Please.

Just last week, Palin demanded that Laura Schlessinger "reload", after she repeatedly used the N-word while stereotyping black people

I listened to the clip. She did not call anybody a "n****er". She said that Black people use the n-word a lot on HBO (which they do, duh) and that therefore not every use of the n-word is necessarily racist.

Nonsense, since even if not every use is, most of them surely are. (Jews tell Jewish jokes about themselves but that hardly means someone who uses those jokes' stereotypes seriously is not an antisemite).

Why this woman -- which has so little insight into other people's feelings, views, and circumstances -- gives advice on the radio at all (or why should anybody listen) is another issue.

But there's a big moral difference between being a racist and not recognizing somebody else is a racist. She isn't racist, she's just an insensitive idiot.

 

[dudalb]

This seems appropriate... although I can't speak to the veracity of the claims...

[qimg]http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/beck-mlk_flow-chart.jpg[/qimg]

Hate to say it, but Beck was no worse then a lot of DeeJays doing the "Wacky,Outrageous "routine.
Problem is that kind of stuff does not qulify you to be a political commentator.
One reason why politcal talk radio is so bad is that they are recrutiing..and this goes for liberal talk as well as right wing talk...from the ranks of Deejays and Shock Jocks rather then political reporters.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

What's offensive to me is the word "n-word". We all know what it means yet we think somehow making up this saying changes anything. I don't know why people are more concerned about phonetics instead of intent. Unless it's Al Sharpton, then we know why. He sees dollar signs every time a white person says it. But of course that's not racist....

 

[GreNME]

Hate to say it, but Beck was no worse then a lot of DeeJays doing the "Wacky,Outrageous "routine.
Problem is that kind of stuff does not qulify you to be a political commentator.
One reason why politcal talk radio is so bad is that they are recrutiing..and this goes for liberal talk as well as right wing talk...from the ranks of Deejays and Shock Jocks rather then political reporters.

Waitwaitwait.... there are still political reporters?

 

[bynmdsue]

What's offensive to me is the word "n-word". We all know what it means yet we think somehow making up this saying changes anything. I don't know why people are more concerned about phonetics instead of intent. Unless it's Al Sharpton, then we know why. He sees dollar signs every time a white person says it. But of course that's not racist....

...then yer gonna love this...http://www.amazon.com/N-word-Narcissus-Joseph-Conrad/dp/9076660115

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I listened to the clip. She did not call anybody a "n****er". She said that Black people use the n-word a lot on HBO (which they do, duh) and that therefore not every use of the n-word is necessarily racist.

Which is completely consistent with what Mumbles said,

used the N-word while stereotyping black people

 

[Cicero]

I see a lot of Father Coughlin in Glenn Beck these days.

I had the same thought.

Perhaps the two of you could enlighten us where Beck resembles Father Coughlin who was infamous for his anti-Semitic diatribes?

 

[Spindrift]

You miss the point. What has Beck accomplished?

You tell us how this ad could be reversed? Here, let me get you started:

MLK: cheated on his wife.

Beck: turned to God, overcame alcoholism, and went on to broadcast hate and bizarre conspiracy theories misleading thousands of people to believe false things.

You missed the point. I'm not defending Beck. These things are assumedly targeted at fence sitters, they certainly aren't going to change the mind of anyone who is already for or against the subject. But each side could twist reality to fit their need. That fact that Beck was a shock jock and had hired Jessica Hahn is irrelevant and gets people detoured into defending whether or not being a shock jock makes him good or bad. It does neither.

That fact that he's now spouting bilious garbage is the point and lots of people are swallowing it voluntarily is the problem.

 

[Cicero]

I watched some earlier - it was a bit like dropping acid except I could make it stop with my finger. It was a highly politicized mixture of religion and flag fetishizing.

It reminded me of this:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/263894c66aee8f0a32.jpg[/qimg]


Warning: Everything in the montage above is fake

Interesting. Sinclair Lewis managed to say something 50 years before he was born.

It couldn't be part of the warning that "Everything in the montage above is fake?" Since Sinclair Lewis never said the above quote, the dates of his birth and death are superfluous.

 

[GreNME]

It couldn't be part of the warning that "Everything in the montage above is fake?" Since Sinclair Lewis never said the above quote, the dates of his birth and death are superfluous.

Actually, Lewis has this quote misattributed him because he paraphrased someone else who said that fascism would come to America waving a flag and whistling dixie. Of course, that doesn't have to stop you from ignoring the parts of historical reference that don't agree with your "libruls are eebil" mentality.

The reality is, fascism will wear a flag and a cross if it comes to America, much the same as it wears the icons of majority while stoking the ignorant anger of populism wherever it pops up.

 

[Cicero]

Actually, Lewis has this quote misattributed him because he paraphrased someone else who said that fascism would come to America waving a flag and whistling dixie. Of course, that doesn't have to stop you from ignoring the parts of historical reference that don't agree with your "libruls are eebil" mentality.

Actually, not. Lewis did not paraphrase anyone. Huey Long never said it either .

The reality is, fascism will wear a flag and a cross if it comes to America, much the same as it wears the icons of majority while stoking the ignorant anger of populism wherever it pops up.

You speak of the "reality" of something that exists only in your mind. You must be spending too much time with 911 grunions.

 

[GreNME]

Actually, not. Lewis did not paraphrase anyone. Huey Long never said it either .

Yawn. I had who was doing the paraphrasing backwards, and it wasn't Dixie it was the Star Spangled Banner. Lewis never put those words in that order to print, so if you guys had stopped there in contending the quoted text you would have been accurate-- but you just had to that extra mile for fail the other direction.

You speak of the "reality" of something that exists only in your mind. You must be spending too much time with 911 grunions.

Nope, just reading that damned librul Christopher Hitchens.

 

[Cicero]

]Yawn. I had who was doing the paraphrasing backwards, and it wasn't Dixie it was the Star Spangled Banner. Lewis never put those words in that order to print, so if you guys had stopped there in contending the quoted text you would have been accurate-- but you just had to that extra mile for fail the other direction.

Fail? You were wrong in every direction.

Nope, just reading that damned librul Christopher Hitchens.

Where did Hitch, still the most talented polemicist around, say:

The reality is, fascism will wear a flag and a cross if it comes to America, much the same as it wears the icons of majority while stoking the ignorant anger of populism wherever it pops up.

in his Slate article? If he wrote your drivel, he would have been reduced to writing Hallmark greeting card aphorisms long ago.

More recently, almost every European country has seen the emergence of populist parties that call upon nativism and give vent to the idea that the majority population now feels itself unwelcome in its own country. The ugliness of Islamic fundamentalism in particular has given energy and direction to such movements. Hitch

Hitch used to describe himself as a socialist and still is a self-described atheist, yet he had his kids baptized.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

nevermind

 

[Mumbles]

I listened to the clip. She did not call anybody a "n****er". She said that Black people use the n-word a lot on HBO (which they do, duh) and that therefore not every use of the n-word is necessarily racist.

Nonsense, since even if not every use is, most of them surely are. (Jews tell Jewish jokes about themselves but that hardly means someone who uses those jokes' stereotypes seriously is not an antisemite).

I don't think you understand the problem. Her using "the N-word" is the least offensive part of her reply to the caller (and that's saying a lot). There's the crap about how she should just accept these racist jokes, about how so many black people voted for Obama based on skin color (Uh, democrat!), how black people are hypersensitive and led by militants, how every black person loves to use "the N-Word" but gets offended if a white person says it, her idiotic comment that we "have more complaints about racism than ever", and so on.

mean, bravo for out-Limbaughing Rush Limbaugh.

 

[Lurker]

deleted double post

 

[Lurker]

I don't think you understand the problem. Her using "the N-word" is the least offensive part of her reply to the caller (and that's saying a lot).

Considering the context of her use of the N-word I don't find it all that offensive.

There's the crap about how she should just accept these racist jokes,

Yep, that was bad.

about how so many black people voted for Obama based on skin color (Uh, democrat!)

Yep, that was idiotic of "Dr" Laura. Evidence is how poorly black Republican candidates do in general. We don't see blacks voting for black Republicans in anywhere near the % htey voted for Obama.

, how black people are hypersensitive and led by militants,

Base generalization on her part and woefully wrong.

how every black person loves to use "the N-Word" but gets offended if a white person says it,

Another silly generalization.

her idiotic comment that we "have more complaints about racism than ever", and so on.

Even if this were true, I am glad the complaints about racism are relegated to name calling versus lunch counter or bus racism of yesteryear. We have made significant progress.

mean, bravo for out-Limbaughing Rush Limbaugh.

No easy feat.

And I would like to add the part of the call that I found most disconcerting was her advice that sensitive people should not enter into interracial marriages. Whaaat?

 

[phiwum]

I guess you missed the allusions made by these folks:

Quite right. I only read the MoveOn entry, thinking that's what was being pointed to. My mistake.

The point still remains: portraying Obama as Hitler is a bad thing. It remains a bad thing no matter how many people did a similar bad thing to Bush. I don't see why adding up instances matters here.

 

[Dr. Keith]

(Laughing)

Maybe you should be reading, instead.

Yeah, because when I buy a car, what I want from it is to have a range seven miles longer than what the average citizen drives in a day before it stops dead and has to be recharged all night! Because, you know, nobody ever drives more than that on average, or wants to take a trip somewhere, or wants to go to another store on the way home, or has to give junior a lift unexpectedly, or is stuck in traffic, or has the battery's efficiency go down with age...

No. it has an electric range that will get most people through their day, but has a total range of about 300 miles, IIRC. So, when you decide to drive across town to meet a friend for lunch, you will simply be using a bit of gas. Man, that sure is inconvenient. To your argument, at least.

Besides, playing will-this-lemon-die-on-me-in-the-middle-of-the-highway? as you enter the last few miles of its generous 40-mile limit is FUN and EXCITING, as happens to you when you forget to fill your car's tank and are driving looking for a gas station when the damn Needle has been on "E" for the last 20 minutes. Have no excitement in your life? Want to live on the edge? Buy a Volt. Only this time with no gas stations, as it can only be charged from the grid using an electric cable all night. Damn. (Why, yes, you could then use the -- bleeeech -- fossil-fuel gobbling environment-killing regular engine, but that sort of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?).

Wait, so you knew it had a gas back-up, but you just spewed all that "range anxiety" BS because you were being obtuse? It doesn't "defeat the purpose" to have a very efficient gasoline generator to extend the usefulness of an electric car. It is actually rather insightful and my only complaint is that it isn't diesel, as diesel motors make for more efficient generators.

It makes sense, though, that the car also only seats four and has about the same performance of a car costing 1/3 as much. After all, the average family size in the US is now only 3.14 (presumably since single people are considered "families" for this purpose). Clearly thinking about having room for five or six people is ridiculous overkill. Who asked you to want more than the average! Shame on you! Nobody's ever going to want to, you know, give grandma and grandpa a lift anywhere, or arrange a trip with friends, or other crazy activities that grossly violate the "average number of people in a car" rule.

The VOLT is a four passenger car, but the platform will spawn many variants. Just as the first mini-vans in the US were built off the k-car platform, and most current mini-vans and crossovers can trace their platforms to family sedans, there will be future "people carriers" based off this platform. Do you really think a car company spends so many years and millions of dollars on developing a single car?

Or did you not realize that this was a project that has taken many years and was started well before Obama took office? Or are you just blaming him for the Volt because he has supported it?

Yes, the Volt is going to a big hit, I'm sure -- just like the projects, which were planned around the idea of how much space, air, light, etc. an average family needs. It was scientific! It used all the statistics! Whaddaya mean, the result was a hellhole? What are you, a racist or something?

Ah, so one scientific project went wrong so we should all abandon science? Or just the government shouldn't rely on science? (Note that unlike the projects the Volt was actually a project started by a private company. This may affect your answer to that last question.)

Also, you mentioned elsewhere that the price is outrageous. I saw that it would be about $41,000 and I'm assuming that will be with AC power windows and a decent radio. Now, I'm sure you could get a car for less, put there are plenty of people buying $40,000 family sedans out there who would like to buy one with better mileage than the current offerings. Maybe they think that gas won't stay as low as it is now, maybe they think carbon footprint is more important than acceleration. I don't know.

But there are buyers and they don't have to be you. You are not being forced to drive a Volt. Frankly, I'd wait a couple of years for them to get some of the bugs out anyway. My suggestions for a more efficient vehicle would be: If you drive a lot of city miles you can get a Nissan Leaf and if you drive a lot of highway miles the VW TDIs are nice. But if you drive a bit of both you may want an extended range electric vehicle . . . now where could you get one of those?

Oh, and Beck isn't racist because of the rally. He is racist and had a rally. That's different.

 

[Rodney]

Quite right. I only read the MoveOn entry, thinking that's what was being pointed to. My mistake.

The point still remains: portraying Obama as Hitler is a bad thing. It remains a bad thing no matter how many people did a similar bad thing to Bush. I don't see why adding up instances matters here.

Agreed. It's just that I don't recall Skeptic Ginger and many others on these forums being exercised about comparisons of Bush to Hitler.