Republicans FINALLY have their own health-care reform plan!!

[Thunder]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091103/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul

Oh.....NOW they have a plan!!! What took so damn long Republicans???? Maybe spent too much time attacking Obama, the Democrats, and our plan? Maybe spent too long calling us Socialists and Fascists? Well, you may have finally decided to join the game, a little too late. And its your own damn fault.


You guys might even have some good ideas about how to cut costs, but it may just be too late for that too. Hopefully, Obama will be nice to you'all, and include some of your ideas in the final bill. But he sure doesn't have to...not based on how you have been treating him and the democrats.

 

[WildCat]

So you think Obama should reject cost savings in health care (the most expensive in the world) and stick it to the taxpayers instead in order to get back at the GOP?

 

[Thunder]

So you think Obama should reject cost savings in health care (the most expensive in the world) and stick it to the taxpayers instead in order to get back at the GOP?

Obama's and the House and the Senate plans already have ideas for cost savings.

But sure, if the Republicans have some good ideas, throw it in the mix.

....just to be nice.

 

[drkitten]

So you think Obama should reject cost savings in health care (the most expensive in the world) and stick it to the taxpayers instead in order to get back at the GOP?

Not "in order to get back at the GOP." But in order to bring a reasonable bill out of Congress and get it into action in a reasonable time frame.

One of the basic lessons you have to learn in politics (unless you're a Libertarian, in which case you never have to learn anything, but you never need to be elected, either) is that the best cannot be permitted to be the enemy of the good, and that building consensus is often the best route to getting something done. A "perfect" bill will never survive committee, and if you insist that it be "perfect" before you vote for it, you'll never get anywhere.

But a "good" bill can usually be shepherded through and put into action.

The GOP may indeed have some good ideas for health care (although, personally, I rather doubt it), but at this point it's a little late to be sent to committee for the experts to dissect in detail. There's a tremendous amount of the current legislative power structure tucked into the current floor version of the bill, and people aren't going to look kindly at attempts to break the current coalition of deals that it took to bring it to where it is.

And Obama has more of a stake in bringing a "good" bill through than trying to make a "perfect" bill. Which means he's going to be pushing back against the GOP version simply because he's been working closely with the existing proposal to make sure it's something he can live with.

And, quite frankly, this assumes that the GOP bill is even being offered in good faith, to be seriously considered. My admittedly cynical reading is that it is not a good faith bill but a simple delaying tactic; they're trying to sow dissention among the discussants, in the same way that a lawyer will file a whole slew of unrelated claims late in the trial process just to harass and to delay. It's unethical when a lawyer does it, and it should be unethical when a Congressman does it, but nothing about the GOP's handling of the health care bills has yet been ethical....

 

[WildCat]

Not "in order to get back at the GOP." But in order to bring a reasonable bill out of Congress and get it into action in a reasonable time frame.

One of the basic lessons you have to learn in politics (unless you're a Libertarian, in which case you never have to learn anything, but you never need to be elected, either) is that the best cannot be permitted to be the enemy of the good, and that building consensus is often the best route to getting something done. A "perfect" bill will never survive committee, and if you insist that it be "perfect" before you vote for it, you'll never get anywhere.

But a "good" bill can usually be shepherded through and put into action.

The GOP may indeed have some good ideas for health care (although, personally, I rather doubt it), but at this point it's a little late to be sent to committee for the experts to dissect in detail. There's a tremendous amount of the current legislative power structure tucked into the current floor version of the bill, and people aren't going to look kindly at attempts to break the current coalition of deals that it took to bring it to where it is.

And Obama has more of a stake in bringing a "good" bill through than trying to make a "perfect" bill. Which means he's going to be pushing back against the GOP version simply because he's been working closely with the existing proposal to make sure it's something he can live with.

I've seen little to indicate the 1000+ page monstrosity that is the Baucus plan is a "good" bill. In fact, the requirement that insurers cover everyone regardless of pre-existing conditions coupled with extremely weak mandatory coverage requirements is disaster in the making.

And, quite frankly, this assumes that the GOP bill is even being offered in good faith, to be seriously considered. My admittedly cynical reading is that it is not a good faith bill but a simple delaying tactic; they're trying to sow dissention among the discussants, in the same way that a lawyer will file a whole slew of unrelated claims late in the trial process just to harass and to delay. It's unethical when a lawyer does it, and it should be unethical when a Congressman does it, but nothing about the GOP's handling of the health care bills has yet been ethical....

This is Congress, not a courtroom. And Obama has made it clear he wants a bipartisan bill.

But frankly, IMHO the whole bill should be scrapped and rewritten. It's a joke.

 

[WildCat]

Obama's and the House and the Senate plans already have ideas for cost savings.

Name one. I have the laughing dog ready to go if all you have is "public option".

 

[Newtons Bit]

Hey Parky, do you have a list of (or a link where I can find them) specific items that will lower the cost of the average insurance payer (i.e. me).

 

[MattusMaximus]

Nice to see the Republican Party took some time out of their "scorched earth" politicking to give the impression that they're really giving a damn about health care reform

 

[leftysergeant]

My thoughts on the matter involve K-Y Jelly.

The GOP bill is Lucy's football. They have already stated a desire to see Obama fail and there is nothing in the world to indicate that they are sincere in their desire to get an alternative through Congress. They have not, collectively, had an idea worthy of consideration in over 28 years on much of anything.

What the heck. Make that Vics Vapo-rub.

 

[Thunder]

Hey Parky, do you have a list of (or a link where I can find them) specific items that will lower the cost of the average insurance payer (i.e. me).

yeah, its called a not-for-profit government sponsored alternative.

if the HMOs wanna compete for the folks who will go to Obamacare, they will HAVE to lower costs.

and how will they lower costs? by lowering corporate profits and salaries. oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Newtons Bit]

yeah, its called a not-for-profit government sponsored alternative.

if the HMOs wanna compete for the folks who will go to Obamacare, they will HAVE to lower costs.

and how will they lower costs? by lowering corporate profits and salaries. oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Err, you said, "ideas". I was hoping that there would be more than one.

 

[Thunder]

Err, you said, "ideas". I was hoping that there would be more than one.

i will consult the WH website

 

[Thunder]

• Caps out-of pocket expenses so people don’t go broke when they get sick. The President’s plan will cap out-of-pocket expenses and will prohibit insurance companies from imposing annual or lifetime caps on benefit payments. A middle-class family purchasing health insurance directly from the individual insurance market today could spend up to 50 percent of household income on health care costs because there is no limit on out-of-pocket expenses.
• Eliminates extra charges for preventive care like mammograms, flu shots and diabetes tests to improve health and save money. The President’s plan ensures that all Americans have access to free preventive services under their health insurance plans. Too many Americans forgo needed preventive care, in part because of the cost of check-ups and screenings that can identify health problems early when they can be most effectively treated. For example, 24 percent of women age 40 and over have not received a mammogram in the past two years, and 38 percent of adults age 50 and over have never had a colon cancer screening.

Eliminates the "donut-hole" gap in coverage for prescription drugs. The President’s plan begins immediately to close the Medicare "donut hole" - a current gap in its drug benefit - by providing a 50 percent discount on brand-name prescription drugs for seniors who fall into it. In 2007, over 8 million seniors hit this coverage gap in the standard Medicare drug benefit. By 2019, the President’s plan will completely close the "donut hole". The average out-of-pocket spending for such beneficiaries who lack another source of insurance is $4,080.

• Implements a number of delivery system reforms that begin to rein in health care costs and align incentives for hospitals, physicians, and others to improve quality. The President’s plan includes proposals that will improve the way care is delivered to emphasize quality over quantity, including: incentives for hospitals to prevent avoidable readmissions, pilots for new "bundled" payments in Medicare, and support for new models of delivering care through medical homes and accountable care organizations that focus on a coordinated approach to care and outcomes.
• Creates an independent commission of doctors and medical experts to identify waste, fraud and abuse in the health care system. The President’s plan will create an independent Commission, made up of doctors and medical experts, to make recommendations to Congress each year on how to promote greater efficiency and higher quality in Medicare. The Commission will not be authorized to propose or implement Medicare changes that ration care or affect benefits, eligibility or beneficiary access to care. It will ensure that your tax dollars go directly to caring for seniors.
• Orders immediate medical malpractice reform projects that could help doctors focus on putting their patients first, not on practicing defensive medicine. The President’s plan instructs the Secretary of Health and Human Services to move forward on awarding medical malpractice demonstration grants to states funded by the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality as soon as possible.

You can find the plan here..if you wanna read the whole thing
http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/health-care/plan

 

[Newtons Bit]

Thanks Parky, I'll take a look at it after work today. However I have to say that it looks like the non-medicare ideas will actually increase my annual costs.

 

[WildCat]

• Caps out-of pocket expenses so people don’t go broke when they get sick. The President’s plan will cap out-of-pocket expenses and will prohibit insurance companies from imposing annual or lifetime caps on benefit payments. A middle-class family purchasing health insurance directly from the individual insurance market today could spend up to 50 percent of household income on health care costs because there is no limit on out-of-pocket expenses.
• Eliminates extra charges for preventive care like mammograms, flu shots and diabetes tests to improve health and save money. The President’s plan ensures that all Americans have access to free preventive services under their health insurance plans. Too many Americans forgo needed preventive care, in part because of the cost of check-ups and screenings that can identify health problems early when they can be most effectively treated. For example, 24 percent of women age 40 and over have not received a mammogram in the past two years, and 38 percent of adults age 50 and over have never had a colon cancer screening.

Eliminates the "donut-hole" gap in coverage for prescription drugs. The President’s plan begins immediately to close the Medicare "donut hole" - a current gap in its drug benefit - by providing a 50 percent discount on brand-name prescription drugs for seniors who fall into it. In 2007, over 8 million seniors hit this coverage gap in the standard Medicare drug benefit. By 2019, the President’s plan will completely close the "donut hole". The average out-of-pocket spending for such beneficiaries who lack another source of insurance is $4,080.

• Implements a number of delivery system reforms that begin to rein in health care costs and align incentives for hospitals, physicians, and others to improve quality. The President’s plan includes proposals that will improve the way care is delivered to emphasize quality over quantity, including: incentives for hospitals to prevent avoidable readmissions, pilots for new "bundled" payments in Medicare, and support for new models of delivering care through medical homes and accountable care organizations that focus on a coordinated approach to care and outcomes.
• Creates an independent commission of doctors and medical experts to identify waste, fraud and abuse in the health care system. The President’s plan will create an independent Commission, made up of doctors and medical experts, to make recommendations to Congress each year on how to promote greater efficiency and higher quality in Medicare. The Commission will not be authorized to propose or implement Medicare changes that ration care or affect benefits, eligibility or beneficiary access to care. It will ensure that your tax dollars go directly to caring for seniors.
• Orders immediate medical malpractice reform projects that could help doctors focus on putting their patients first, not on practicing defensive medicine. The President’s plan instructs the Secretary of Health and Human Services to move forward on awarding medical malpractice demonstration grants to states funded by the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality as soon as possible.

You can find the plan here..if you wanna read the whole thing
http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/health-care/plan

Looks to me like someone is confusing "subsidizing with tax dollars" with "lowering costs". Sorry parky, the costs are the same no matter what the subsidy.

As for the private sector mandating increases in coverage (note this is unrelated to mandatory insurance) will increase costs.

And need I point out yet again that even if the public option was 100% efficient (meaning 100% of premiums paid for actual health care and not overhead and administrative costs) it would reduce health care expenditures by a whopping 5%?

What I want to know is what is in the bill to reduce costs, and put the US in line with other comparable western countries?

 

[Thunder]

What I want to know is what is in the bill to reduce costs, and put the US in line with other comparable western countries?

well, see the thing is, the White House can't force doctors and hospitals to lower costs.

all they can do is offer to pay a certain amount, and thats it.

should we be forcing medical providers to lower their costs? Im not sure. id rather let the free market of private HMOs, non-profit Co-ops, and a public plan, help the providers decide what is and isn't a fair and reasonable price for medical care.

what is the Republican answer to medical costs?

 

[WildCat]

well, see the thing is, the White House can't force doctors and hospitals to lower costs.

all they can do is offer to pay a certain amount, and thats it.

Really? Congress can't write laws opening up competition, such as allowing insurance companies to sell policies in all states? They can't favor low-cost, high-outcome hospitals over others? They can't make hospitals list their prices publicly, as well as survival rates and other outcome indicators? They can't rewrite the tax code to get away from employer-based coverage? Encourage tort reform (not caps)?

There's no end to the things they could do, it's just a matter of wanting to do it. If it requires GOP input so be it. Fixing our pathetic health delivery system shouldn't be forever mired in political muck.

 

[gtc]

My thoughts on the matter involve K-Y Jelly.

The GOP bill is Lucy's football. They have already stated a desire to see Obama fail and there is nothing in the world to indicate that they are sincere in their desire to get an alternative through Congress. They have not, collectively, had an idea worthy of consideration in over 28 years on much of anything.

What the heck. Make that Vics Vapo-rub.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

 

[SezMe]

But frankly, IMHO the whole bill should be scrapped and rewritten. It's a joke.

What in the world makes you think it would come out any better the second time around the track. I'm getting tired of all the politics surrounding this whole issue. So I'm just opposite of you; get the damn thing over with, no matter what the details are. It's going to be a mess no matter what.

 

[leftysergeant]

The GOP had their chance a hundred years ago and have stamped their feet and screamed "NO!" every time it came up. Too late now.

We have no reason to believe the snivellers are sioncere. They want Obama to fail, and to actually pass anything would be an admission that he had meade them do something. I believe this is just another stalling tactic to run out the clock. Obviously, this would never make it through committee in time for the next election.

That's their whole point in waiting until now to bring it forward. It was their stated plan to torpedo the whole process.

Sit down and shut up, Boehner.