Republican talking points on Plame leak

[SezMe]

I've been wondering about this in two directions. What is the basis for all the Republican statements that she wasn't really a covert agent. Who is the source for that information?

My understanding is that the issue is not whether she was covert. She was. But apparently the law says you cannot out her for 5 years after the end of the time she was covert and, if I remember, it has been much longer than that since she was under cover. That is why the Republicans say there was no crime in revealing her name.

 

[Scott]

...The Republicans are clearly using a strategy where they same thing over and over and eventually regardless of the truth of the statement people begin to believe it because they've heard it so often. But what is the underlying truth of what they are saying? I thought once we had a fairly comprehensive list of their points we could take a look at how truthful they are being.

Much like the media stating Plame was a covert agent each and every time they run the story. Tell a lie long enough and even skeptical people start to believe it...

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Much like the media stating Plame was a covert agent each and every time they run the story. Tell a lie long enough and even skeptical people start to believe it...

There are two issues here that are worth discussing separately.

One is whether revealing the act of revealing that Plame was a CIA agent who at one time worked as a "non-official cover" agent (i.e. no diplomatic immunity, if you get caught you get shot) was technically illegal. I have seen arguments on both sides, but it does seem from the prosecutor's behaviour that Fitzgerald isn't sure he can prove motive in Libby's case, so Libby hasn't been indicted for that.

The other is whether it's okay to reveal such a thing, given what could happen to US intelligence assets (or NOC agents) who had ever had any contact with Plame. There might be a five year limit on the legal rule against outing undercover agents but nobody said that the secret police in hostile states have to respect a five year statute of limitations on handing WMD information over to a CIA agent.

The fact that Plame was a CIA agent who worked under a non-official cover investigating WMD issues now part of the public record. Anyone saying otherwise is confused, or attempting to confuse others.

 

[davefoc]

Much like the media stating Plame was a covert agent each and every time they run the story. Tell a lie long enough and even skeptical people start to believe it...

Scott, what do you think was the nature of Plame's job with the CIA and what is the basis for your view?

Do you have specific instances in mind where the media has stated misleading information about Plame's job with the CIA?

 

[Scott]

Scott, what do you think was the nature of Plame's job with the CIA and what is the basis for your view?

The nature of her job with the CIA is not the point of my post. The fact that the media repeatedly call her a covert agent when she clearly is not is.

John Dean, no friend of Geoerge, states:

"...In fact, there is no public evidence that Valerie Wilson had the covert status required by the statute. A covert agent, as defined under this law, is "a present or retired officer or employee" of the CIA, whose identity as such "is classified information," and this person must be serving outside of the United States, or have done so in the last five years..." (http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/15/dean.rove/)

The law states: United States Code TITLE 50 - WAR AND NATIONAL DEFENSE, CHAPTER 15 - NATIONAL SECURITY, SUBCHAPTER IV - PROTECTION OF CERTAIN NATIONAL SECURITY INFORMATION

Section 426. Definitions

(4) The term ''covert agent'' means -
(A) a present or retired officer or employee of an intelligence agency or a present or retired member of the Armed Forces assigned to duty with an intelligence agency -
(i) whose identity as such an officer, employee, or member is classified information, and
(ii) who is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States; or

(B) a United States citizen whose intelligence relationship to the United States is classified information, and -
(i) who resides and acts outside the United States as an agent of, or informant or source of operational assistance to, an intelligence agency, or
(ii) who is at the time of the disclosure acting as an agent of, or informant to, the foreign counterintelligence or foreign counterterrorism components of the Federal Bureau of Investigation; or
(C) an individual, other than a United States citizen, whose past or present intelligence relationship to the United States is classified information and who is a present or former agent of, or a present or former informant or source of operational assistance to, an intelligence agency. (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casec...s/15/subchapters/iv/sections/section_426.html)

Which of these requirements did Ms. Plame meet? Some say the "has within the last five years served outside the United States" part, but...

"In 1997, Plame moved back to the Washington area, partly because (as was recently reported in The New York Times) the C.I.A. suspected that her name may have been on a list given to the Russians by the double agent Aldrich Ames in 1994." Print in Vanity Fair, Jan 04, (online at http://www.jimgilliam.com/2004/01/vanity_fairs_profile_on_joseph_wilson_and_valerie_plame.php)

2003-1997 = 6 years.

Fitzgerald even stated that they are not alleging anyone of intentionally outing a covert agent:

"Number one, I am not speaking to whether or not Valerie Wilson was covert. And anything I say is not intended to say anything beyond this: that she was a CIA officer from January 1st, 2002, forward.

I will confirm that her association with the CIA was classified at that time through July 2003. And all I'll say is that, look, we have not made any allegation that Mr. Libby knowingly, intentionally outed a covert agent." Fizgerald, 10/28 press conference (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102801340.html)

Do you have specific instances in mind where the media has stated misleading information about Plame's job with the CIA?

Are you kidding? Do you read or listen to the news at all?

Just a sample...

"...Libby, a central figure in the probe since its earliest days and the vice president's main counselor, discussed Plame with at least two reporters but testified that he never mentioned her name or her covert status at the CIA, according to lawyers in the case.
..." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/01/AR2005100101317.html)

"...In this narrative, the leaking of Plame's covert identity and the possibility of resulting indictments are just the latest development in the misguided, if not dishonest, adventure that began in 2002 when White House officials decided they wanted to go to war against Iraq..." (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/10/24/plame/)

"...He testified that he learned from NBC correspondent Tim Russert the identity of a covert CIA officer who is the wife of Bush administration critic Joseph Wilson. Russert says they never discussed it..." (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/28/politics/main990068.shtml?CMP=ILC-SearchStories)

"...Rove, who testified before a federal grand jury four times, has acknowledged discussing Plame's covert work for the CIA with Time magazine's Matthew Cooper and syndicated columnist Robert Novak, according to legal professionals familiar with his testimony..." (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/CIALeak/wireStory?id=1262089)

So, we've already established the Plame was not a covert agent at the time she was "outed," and, it is too easy to see that the media continue to claim that Plame was a covert agent at the time she was "outed."

Therefore, I would say "yes" I have specific instances in mind where the media has stated misleading information about Plame's job with ths CIA.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

So, we've already established the Plame was not a covert agent at the time she was "outed," and, it is too easy to see that the media continue to claim that Plame was a covert agent at the time she was "outed."

Therefore, I would say "yes" I have specific instances in mind where the media has stated misleading information about Plame's job with ths CIA.

It is conceivable that the media were using "covert" in a less precise sense than the legal sense laid out in Title 50?

For example, in the usual English sense of the word "covert" Valerie Plame could be said to be a "covert agent" because the fact that she was a CIA agent was not common knowledge.

If that was the case, the media would not have been making misleading statements unless the general public tended to take "covert" to mean "covert" in the Title 50 sense rather than the usual English sense.

 

[davefoc]

Scott, I think I might go farther than Kevin.

The use of the word covert by the media was entirely reasonable as there is no reason to think in the examples you provided that the media meant the word to be interpreted in the narrower sense of the law you referred to.

The sentence you quoted from John Dean is consistent with this view. John Dean says, "...there is no public evidence that Valerie Wilson had the covert status required by the statute..." This directly implies that there is a narrower definition of covert in a statute but that there is a more general definition of covert when it is not used in the context of the statute.

I would agree, that the media was intentionally misleading if the issue of whether Plame was a covert agent in the context of the statute you referenced was not reported. In fact, the opposite is true. I have seen it discussed on numerous occasions. One of the principal authors of the bill, [SIZE=-1]Victoria Toensing, has been on the television many times discussing why the law you referenced may not apply in this case.


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[Luke T.]

The Novak article in question.