Republican Party

[leftysergeant]

You are rationalizing. "Conservative" has taken a hell of a beating as well the last 8 years.

Deservedly so. Tax cuts and deregulation and privatization are the heart and soul of the movement, as it now exists.

Classic FAIL.

 

[AlBell]

@dudalb

That's my question for most posting here.

 

[leftysergeant]

@dudalb

That's my question for most posting here.

We are living in the reality in which the conservative dream of dismantling the New Deal has proceded at warp speed and run us right into the latrine pit.

 

[dudalb]

@dudalb

That's my question for most posting here.

I have a question:what do you think about the seperation of Chuch and State?
That the wing of the GOP you support does not like that idea..or the freedom of choice when it comes to abortion..is a major reason why a number of us who have some sympathy for the GOP when it comes to fiscal policies will never, ever,vote GOP if you wing takes over the edge.

 

[dudalb]

I just checked AlBell posting history, and in a discussion of the high crime rate in the ghetto he suggests it is because of "epigenic" (ie,genetics) reasons.
In other words, Blacks are genetically criminals.
Your credibility here just went to about zero.

 

[AlBell]

We are living in the reality in which the conservative dream of dismantling the New Deal has proceded at warp speed and run us right into the latrine pit.

We can agree you and several other posters here appear to believe so.

 

[AlBell]

I just checked AlBell posting history, and in a discussion of the high crime rate in the ghetto he suggests it is because of "epigenic" (ie,genetics) reasons.
In other words, Blacks are genetically criminals.
Your credibility here just went to about zero.

As I understand the concept epigenetics does not equal "genetically criminal".

 

[leftysergeant]

We can agree you and several other posters here appear to believe so.

The effective head of the GOP, that fat deaf eunuch on the AM radio, has stated flat-out that Roosevelt is dead. His policies may live on, but we are in the process of doing something about that."

That is the whole GOP platform in a nutshell.

God bless and keep the GOP...FAR FROM WASHINGTON D.C.

 

[MattusMaximus]

Deservedly so. Tax cuts and deregulation and privatization are the heart and soul of the movement, as it now exists.

Classic FAIL.

Well, not quite. If that's all there was to the modern "conservative" movement (read: the Tea Party movement, I'm not going to paint all conservatives with that brush), then I wouldn't have such a big problem with them. I'm perfectly willing to slug out the bread-and-butter issues with the opposition, because when you're arguing dollars & cents there are at least some real numbers to discuss.

What grinds my molars is the hardcore social & religious conservatives who are all over the Tea Party movement. These are what I refer to as the "Sarah Palin" types, and they are damned scary, imo. They take their cue from a frakked up ideology that they, and they alone, have some kind of line directly to God telling them to force their religion on the rest of us through the power of the government.

More than anything, it is that aspect of the GOP base that has driven me screaming away from the Republican party. How I long for the days of the "old GOP" from the 70s and 80s before the religious & social conservative whackjobs hijacked it.

 

[Brainster]

@Upchurch

The results in NY23 will be the first data point.

RINO McCain provided an earlier one that was to Democrat liking.

You know who the real RINOs are? The people who think John McCain isn't a real Republican and supported him tepidly and only after griping all through January, February and March about how they might sit this one out. We might call them the "Ann Colter Republicans". I hope they are happy because they are as responsible for Obama's victory as David Plouffe.

 

[MattusMaximus]

I have a question:what do you think about the seperation of Chuch and State?
That the wing of the GOP you support does not like that idea..or the freedom of choice when it comes to abortion..is a major reason why a number of us who have some sympathy for the GOP when it comes to fiscal policies will never, ever,vote GOP if you wing takes over the edge.

Yup, that's it in a nutshell.

The GOP may make a few gains in playing on people's concerns regarding fiscal issues and the economy, but the social conservatives are really the ones running the show. And, to them, using fiscal issues is simply their way of getting their foot in the door to push their real agenda... think Terri Schiavo and you're on the right track, folks.

 

[MattusMaximus]

You know who the real RINOs are? The people who think John McCain isn't a real Republican and supported him tepidly and only after griping all through January, February and March about how they might sit this one out. We might call them the "Ann Colter Republicans". I hope they are happy because they are as responsible for Obama's victory as David Plouffe.

True enough. Good on you for recognizing the folly of your fellow Republicans for not supporting McCain. I strongly supported Obama over McCain, but believe me I breathed a big sigh of relief when McCain won the GOP nod. I thought to myself: "Hey, this is cool. It looks like the GOP may have turned a corner."

And then he, under pressure from the socially conservative Tea Party wingnut types, selected Sarah Palin as his running mate.

Then I knew the handwriting was on the wall: the socially conservative nuts were going to do everything they could to either run the GOP or run it into the ground.

 

[MattusMaximus]

Btw all...

The spat we're seeing here between Brainster and AlBell is an example of what's to come: a very big & nasty feud for the heart and soul of the Republican party. And it is only going to get worse. I think that the GOP primaries next spring are going to be particularly nasty, and in some cases I believe there will be Tea Party/CP types actually running as independents just to stick their finger in the eye of the GOP establishment. Just as what has happened in NY23.

2010 is going to be one interesting year, politically speaking. It certainly won't be boring, that's for damn sure.

 

[Tricky]

You know who the real RINOs are? The people who think John McCain isn't a real Republican and supported him tepidly and only after griping all through January, February and March about how they might sit this one out. We might call them the "Ann Colter Republicans". I hope they are happy because they are as responsible for Obama's victory as David Plouffe.

You're right to some extent, though I think that McCain still had a chance until the economy tanked. But I wouldn't call anyone a RINO. Republicans are going through a split. Traditional fiscal conservative Republicans who might be fairly moderate on social issues, are on one side of the wedge and religious and social conservatives, who may be fine with tax and spend if it wipes out our "enemies" are on the other. I've said for years that Reagan made a deal with the devil when he invited the Moral Majority to help him win. Those chickens are coming home to roost.

With people like Coulter and Beck pounding on the wedge, something has to give. The good news for the "traditional" Republican Party is that if they manage to break from the Social Conservatives, they will win over one hell of a lot of converts from disaffected Democrats. The SC's will dwindle in importance because without the rest of the Republicans, they aren't big enought to win much. They can only play spoiler. THe bad news for the GOP is that if the the SC's spoil anything, it will probably be the hopes of the GOP. The 23rd District Congressional race in New York may be the first of many such imbroglios.

 

[Brainster]

Btw all...

The spat we're seeing here between Brainster and AlBell is an example of what's to come: a very big & nasty feud for the heart and soul of the Republican party. And it is only going to get worse. I think that the GOP primaries next spring are going to be particularly nasty, and in some cases I believe there will be Tea Party/CP types actually running as independents just to stick their finger in the eye of the GOP establishment. Just as what has happened in NY23.

2010 is going to be one interesting year, politically speaking. It certainly won't be boring, that's for damn sure.

Tonight's results (assuming Hoffman loses) are looking pretty good to me. I remember 2007 when everybody was assuming McCain was dead in the water (and I was at one point). But in the end, the adults decided things.

It sure does ruin the meme that the nutbars have taken over the party, which was one of the things that I think the Democrats were hoping would last until 2010. Yeah, it won't be boring.

 

[GreNME]

@Upchurch

The results in NY23 will be the first data point.

RINO McCain provided an earlier one that was to Democrat liking.

How's that data working out for you?

 

[MattusMaximus]

How's that data working out for you?

Indeed, let the special pleading begin

 

[MattusMaximus]

Tonight's results (assuming Hoffman loses) are looking pretty good to me. I remember 2007 when everybody was assuming McCain was dead in the water (and I was at one point). But in the end, the adults decided things.

It sure does ruin the meme that the nutbars have taken over the party, which was one of the things that I think the Democrats were hoping would last until 2010. Yeah, it won't be boring.

Oh, you can count on it lasting until at least the primaries in the spring, likely longer... all the way to the general election in 2010. These TP folks are not going to go away quietly, and if you think they will, you're wrong. They have their sights set on the GOP establishment, Brainster, and for you to so easily dismiss them is a big mistake.

If anything, tonight's defeat for them in NY23 will only strengthen their resolve. Just wait and see.

 

[Brainster]

Oh, you can count on it lasting until at least the primaries in the spring, likely longer... all the way to the general election in 2010. These TP folks are not going to go away quietly, and if you think they will, you're wrong. They have their sights set on the GOP establishment, Brainster, and for you to so easily dismiss them is a big mistake.

If anything, tonight's defeat for them in NY23 will only strengthen their resolve. Just wait and see.

Yes, but it weakens their argument. The GOP, unlike the Democratic Party, has relatively few starry-eyed idealists. We're the party of bean-counters and half-a-loafers. McCain, who was opposed by the TP brigade quite hostilely, proves that.

 

[leftysergeant]

Talk radio made the current GOP and, I am hoping, will break it into teeny-tiny shards that cut like glass when you try to pick them up. The radio blathermeisters have driven the aggenda since McCain went down in flames, shrieking that the party had to go back to the right to stay viable.

Cngressman Owen thanks you, ya rightwing schmucks!