Merged Remember the West Memphis 3?

[John Jones]

What more do you want? Live cctv streaming of the murders?

You haven't given any valid reason for ignoring Misskelley's eye witness account and confession, other than claiming his low-normal IQ rules him out.

[...]

There is also the matter of Misskelley recanting his confession multiple times. He also refused to testify against Echols and Baldwin - which meant that his confession was not admissible against the latter two.

The jury considered it anyway, and this was going to the AR supreme court as jury misconduct when Arkansas suddenly freed them.

 

[Vixen]

I don't like pop music of any genre. I'm seriously into most things from about Hildegard of Bingen to Ola Gjeilo, but not pop music. Apart from Wolfstone and some similar sorts of heavy rock bagpipe music, so sue me.

I really liked the sound track to Paradise Lost. I understand that was Metallica. Does that make me a frenzied satanic killer?

That's Echols' and Baldwin's own straw man. They claim the police picked on them because they liked Metallica. Er, hello? Metallica by then were selling 70m records a year and are as mainstream as Andy Williams!!!

 

[Rolfe]

What more do you want? Live cctv streaming of the murders?

You haven't given any valid reason for ignoring Misskelley's eye witness account and confession, other than claiming his low-normal IQ rules him out.

According to Gary Meece, who has an encyclopaedic knowledge of this crime, police did investigate Hobbs. He went searching for the boys alone during the evening - bear in mind they are now reported missing - and was gone a couple of hours. By then it was quite dark and the boys were found the next day by a police officer. However, as the stepfather, why wouldn't he go and look for his kid in the obvious places? It is hardly 'good alternative evidence'.

Mt Bojangles was definitively ruled out, as were about two dozen other suspects 'seen in the area' as of the time of the crime, including all sorts of ex-felons, drug dealers and ruffians.

The idea the police picked on Echols, Bladwin and Misskelley and completely ignored 'the real murderer' is hilarious. They investigated hundreds of people.

Please quote where I said that Misskelly's low IQ rules him out, or is the reason why I discount his so-called confession? Oh look, you can't. The confession was demonstrably coached, and that would still apply even if he was a paid-up member of Mensa.

So, can you tell us when Hobbs was investigated and what was discovered about his movements on the night in question? Also tell us who "Mr. Bojangles" was and how he wasproved to have nothing to do with the murders. I'll be very interested in these answers.

 

[Vixen]

There is also the matter of Misskelley recanting his confession multiple times. He also refused to testify against Echols and Baldwin - which meant that his confession was not admissible against the latter two.

The jury considered it anyway, and this was going to the AR supreme court as jury misconduct when Arkansas suddenly freed them.

All of Misskelley's interviews with the police were recorded. Whilst he claims to have witnessed Echols and Baldwin committing the murders, he was anxious to distance himself. He was telling his friends and family he had nothing to do with it, yet telling the police the exact opposite.

Take Echols knowing about the urine in the boys' mouths. It's no good recanting it 'multiple times' once the pathologists established there WAS urine in the boys' stomachs.

 

[Strawberry]

All of Misskelley's interviews with the police were recorded. Whilst he claims to have witnessed Echols and Baldwin committing the murders, he was anxious to distance himself. He was telling his friends and family he had nothing to do with it, yet telling the police the exact opposite.

Take Echols knowing about the urine in the boys' mouths. It's no good recanting it 'multiple times' once the pathologists established there WAS urine in the boys' stomachs.

Where did pathologists establish that there was urine in the boys mouths?

 

[Strawberry]

What more do you want? Live cctv streaming of the murders?

You haven't given any valid reason for ignoring Misskelley's eye witness account and confession, other than claiming his low-normal IQ rules him out.

According to Gary Meece, who has an encyclopaedic knowledge of this crime, police did investigate Hobbs. He went searching for the boys alone during the evening - bear in mind they are now reported missing - and was gone a couple of hours. By then it was quite dark and the boys were found the next day by a police officer. However, as the stepfather, why wouldn't he go and look for his kid in the obvious places? It is hardly 'good alternative evidence'.

Mr Bojangles was definitively ruled out, as were about two dozen other suspects 'seen in the area' as of the time of the crime, including all sorts of ex-felons, drug dealers and ruffians.

The idea the police picked on Echols, Bladwin and Misskelley and completely ignored 'the real murderer' is hilarious. They investigated hundreds of people.

Police did not investigate Hobbs. They did not interview him, they didn't interview his main alibi witness, and they didn't canvass his neighbours. They seem to have completely forgotten about him until his DNA showed up at the crime scene.

How was Mr Bojangles definitively ruled out? As far as I know he was never even identified, let alone investigated and ruled out.

 

[John Jones]

I don't like pop music of any genre. I'm seriously into most things from about Hildegard of Bingen to Ola Gjeilo, but not pop music. Apart from Wolfstone and some similar sorts of heavy rock bagpipe music, so sue me.

I really liked the sound track to Paradise Lost. I understand that was Metallica. Does that make me a frenzied satanic killer?

Only if you have a bunch of black T-Shirts. Stay out of Arkansas just to be safe.

 

[Rolfe]

Only if you have a bunch of black T-Shirts. Stay out of Arkansas just to be safe.

I have a bunch of black t-shirts. I don't much like that colour but for a long time that was the only colour you could get because the vendors said it was the only colour that sold.

I have no intention of going anywhere near the USA at all until Trump is unseated.

 

[Rolfe]

Where did pathologists establish that there was urine in the boys mouths?

Yeah, I want to know that too. Nothing on the two PM reports I've just read as far as I could see. I'd also want to know what tests they used to determine any stomach fluid was urine.

Police did not investigate Hobbs. They did not interview him, they didn't interview his main alibi witness, and they didn't canvass his neighbours. They seem to have completely forgotten about him until his DNA showed up at the crime scene.

How was Mr Bojangles definitively ruled out? As far as I know he was never even identified, let alone investigated and ruled out.

I want those answers too. Someone seems to be making stuff up and posting it as if it's fact. I think I sense a pattern here.

 

[John Jones]

Police did not investigate Hobbs. They did not interview him, they didn't interview his main alibi witness, and they didn't canvass his neighbours. They seem to have completely forgotten about him until his DNA showed up at the crime scene.

How was Mr Bojangles definitively ruled out? As far as I know he was never even identified, let alone investigated and ruled out.

Bojangles was never ruled-out or even identified, except as a black man. West Memphis has about 30,000 people, and probably 60% are black.

The only evidence he existed was lost by the WMPD. They didn't spend any effort locating him as far as I can tell. To be honest, I don't know what they could have done after botching the investigation so badly.

Terry Hobbs and Mr Bojangles were't investigated because Officer Steve Jones made up his mind the moment the bodies were found that Echols did it.

 

[Strawberry]

Yeah, I want to know that too. Nothing on the two PM reports I've just read as far as I could see. I'd also want to know what tests they used to determine any stomach fluid was urine.




I want those answers too. Someone seems to be making stuff up and posting it as if it's fact. I think I sense a pattern here.

There's no mention in any of the PM reports, or anything else from Dr Peretti, the pathologist, about urine in the boys mouths. The only mention of such a thing is from a letter sent by Det Gitchell to the Arkansas State Crime Lab in which Gitchell states that ""Dr. Peretti mentioned finding urine in the stomach of two boys". That was on the 26th May 1993.

Thereafter you see no mention of urine in the boys mouths or stomachs until the 2002 defense motion to test DNA, where they apply to test any urine found in the boys stomachs. There's no mention of any such thing being tested among the DNA results either.

Damien, when he was interviewed on May 10th, said that Steve Jones had told him on May 7th that there was urine in the boys mouths. So if there was urine in the boys stomachs, and Steve Jones knew about it before the autopsies had even been performed, that looks incriminating for Steve Jones rather than Damien Echols.

 

[luchog]

That's Echols' and Baldwin's own straw man. They claim the police picked on them because they liked Metallica. Er, hello? Metallica by then were selling 70m records a year and are as mainstream as Andy Williams!!!

No. They may have sold millions of albums, but that did not stop millions of fundamentalist Christians, such as my parents and the leaders of the church they attended, from claiming that their music was satanic and that listening to it would turn people into murderous devil worshippers. That was near the height of the "satanic panic" nonsense and anything even remotely dark or spooky got tagged as "satanism".

All of Misskelley's interviews with the police were recorded.

The police themselves have admitted that this is not true. Why do you keep spreading this falsehood when even the interviewers have said that you're wrong?

Little hint, repeating a lie does not make it the truth, no matter how many times you repeat it. You sound like the same sort of religious fundamentalist fanatic that railroaded not just the WM3, but dozens of others, based on nothing but fantasy and ignorant paranoia back during the witch hunts.

 

[John Jones]

All of Misskelley's interviews with the police were recorded. Whilst he claims to have witnessed Echols and Baldwin committing the murders, he was anxious to distance himself. He was telling his friends and family he had nothing to do with it, yet telling the police the exact opposite.
.

Misskelley was interrogated the first time for several hours without a lawyer or parent present. Some records say 8 hours. Some say 12 hours. Less than 60 minutes of the interrogation were recorded.

 

[Vixen]

Please quote where I said that Misskelly's low IQ rules him out, or is the reason why I discount his so-called confession? Oh look, you can't. The confession was demonstrably coached, and that would still apply even if he was a paid-up member of Mensa.

So, can you tell us when Hobbs was investigated and what was discovered about his movements on the night in question? Also tell us who "Mr. Bojangles" was and how he wasproved to have nothing to do with the murders. I'll be very interested in these answers.

Well, several people have said Misskelley was wrongfully made to confess without an adult there, as he was of subnormal IQ. Fact is, 72 is within the normal range and he had scored 84 and 88 in the past.

Police had no reason to suspect Hobbs. The Echols/Baldwin supporters tried to pin it on Hobbs when a hair on a shoe lace was identified which fit 1.5% of the population fit him, but not the three defendants. Given he was the boy's stepfather from the same household it doesn't mean much. For example, my DNA haplotype is just 1.5% of the general population, yet in Denmark and Finland, the figure rises to 20%, which leaves several million fellow haplotype carriers! It is interesting, but meaningless.

About Hobbs' movements. The argument is he would not have been able to kill the boys and clean up all in that time frame. His neighbour Jacoby, vouched that he had come over to play guitar for about an hour. The fact Hobbs went out looking for the kids means little, as half the neighbourhood were also out looking.

See pics 1 - 3 for more info.

As for 'Mr Bojangles', he's entered into urban mythology. Some guy who appeared to be injured by gunshot wound staggered into a local fastfood chain used the toilet, left a mess, and now he's a suspect as 'the real killer'. Yet police never believed he had anything to do with is, as (a) his arm was in a cast, and (b) the murders have nothing to do with guns.

See pic 4, for info.

 

[John Jones]

There's no mention in any of the PM reports, or anything else from Dr Peretti, the pathologist, about urine in the boys mouths. The only mention of such a thing is from a letter sent by Det Gitchell to the Arkansas State Crime Lab in which Gitchell states that ""Dr. Peretti mentioned finding urine in the stomach of two boys". [...].

There you go. Anything associated with Gary Gitchell is suspect, IMO.

 

[Rolfe]

There's no mention in any of the PM reports, or anything else from Dr Peretti, the pathologist, about urine in the boys mouths. The only mention of such a thing is from a letter sent by Det Gitchell to the Arkansas State Crime Lab in which Gitchell states that ""Dr. Peretti mentioned finding urine in the stomach of two boys". That was on the 26th May 1993.

Thereafter you see no mention of urine in the boys mouths or stomachs until the 2002 defense motion to test DNA, where they apply to test any urine found in the boys stomachs. There's no mention of any such thing being tested among the DNA results either.

Damien, when he was interviewed on May 10th, said that Steve Jones had told him on May 7th that there was urine in the boys mouths. So if there was urine in the boys stomachs, and Steve Jones knew about it before the autopsies had even been performed, that looks incriminating for Steve Jones rather than Damien Echols.

All three PM reports mention stomach contents. Chris had "one ounce of red-tan fluid and a piece of chewing gum", Michael had "2 ounces of brown fluid" and Stevie had "2 ounces of partially digested fluid and remnants of green vegetable-like material." There is no mention of any of this being analysed.

I want to see the report that identifies this as urine. I want to know the tests done and the results that led the pathologist to that conclusion.

I don't think urine is a good source of DNA as there are usually very few cells in it. I'd still want it tested if some was found in an incriminating location. But I don't know of any evidence that urine was identified in the stomachs of these boys.

 

[Strawberry]

There you go. Anything associated with Gary Gitchell is suspect, IMO.

I don't think that came from Gitchell to be fair to him. It seems to have come from Steve Jones's imagination, then got spread around as if it were true, till by May 26th the detective in charge of the case not only thinks its true but thinks it came from the pathologist.

 

[Vixen]

Misskelley was interrogated the first time for several hours without a lawyer or parent present. Some records say 8 hours. Some say 12 hours. Less than 60 minutes of the interrogation were recorded.

He is on record as saying he freely wanted to confess because he didn't want Echols and Baldwin to 'get away with it'. He also confirmed the police had treated him well, on record.

 

[John Jones]

As for 'Mr Bojangles', he's entered into urban mythology. Some guy who appeared to be injured by gunshot wound staggered into a local fastfood chain used the toilet, left a mess, and now he's a suspect as 'the real killer'. Yet police never believed he had anything to do with is, as (a) his arm was in a cast, and (b) the murders have nothing to do with guns.

He was described as being disoriented and bloody, not suffering from a gunshot wound or having his arm in a cast. The cop Regina Meeks never got out of her patrol car to take a report, even though the boys were known to be missing at that time. In fact, Meeks left-off searching for the boys to take the report about the Bojangles guy.

You really are making this stuff up.

 

[Strawberry]

All three PM reports mention stomach contents. Chris had "one ounce of red-tan fluid and a piece of chewing gum", Michael had "2 ounces of brown fluid" and Stevie had "2 ounces of partially digested fluid and remnants of green vegetable-like material." There is no mention of any of this being analysed.

I want to see the report that identifies this as urine. I want to know the tests done and the results that led the pathologist to that conclusion.

I don't think urine is a good source of DNA as there are usually very few cells in it. I'd still want it tested if some was found in an incriminating location. But I don't know of any evidence that urine was identified in the stomachs of these boys.

There is no evidence of urine in the boys stomachs. Steve Jones said that to Damien on the morning of May 7th, before the autopsies had even been performed. So either Jones was trotting out something he'd read in his Satanic panic literature, or if there was urine present, Jones was involved in the murder because how else would he have known?