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Religion is to God as Sci-Fi is to Science

Limbo said:
Well, that's ok. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Hari Sheldon is the founder of an orthodoxy, and he establishes it with science not mana. The danger to that orthodoxy is the Mule, who uses mana not science.
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Well BSG was firmly rooted in the Old Testament - The choice of Adama was not accident as the central character. Nor was their desire to seek out the 13th tribe (colony)
 
Yes, BSG drew heavily on Abrahamic religion - which in turn contains the archetypes of the collective unconscious. Same archetypes, different cultural costumes.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
No, Babylon 5 is The Lord Of The Rings. Battlestar Galactica is not.
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Babylon 5 boils down to Sheldon and his mystical union with Kosh, which eventually leads to a non-dual philosophy beyond the Vorlon/Shadow dichotomy when both races leave the galaxy simultaneously. Extremely religious.

It reminds me of The Avengers movie, when at the end Thor and Loki depart simultaneoulsy as complementary opposites. Coincidentia Oppositorum.
 
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Gord_in_Toronto said:
The index (courtesy of amazon.com) has no entries for Asimov, Sturgeon or Zelazny. I wonder what it's about? :confused:

Someone wants a book to deconstruct? How about Stapledon's Last and First Men?

(One of Arthur C Clarke's favourite three authors. Or so he said in a talk I attended in 196mumble mumble.)

Happy to help. :book::w2:

I also note that it is highly recommended by Whitley Strieber. :eek:
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I haven't read it, but in looking at its wiki page, I see that,

'The book anticipates the science of genetic engineering, and is an early example of the fictional supermind; a consciousness composed of many telepathically-linked individuals.'

That can easliy be tied in to the concept of,

The Divine Milieu

I think I'll add Last and First Men to my reading list. It looks extrememly religious.
 
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I read a great interpretation of Clark Kent as the ideal Jewish immigrant. His creators had one foot in an old world that was in ruins and were trying to fit into American life.

This is opposed to comic book characters like Ben Grimm and Magneto. They weren't metaphors for Jews, they were actually Jewish.
 
@Loss Leader, the transformation of comic book characters, such as Superman from a golem to the modern alien we all know and love, reflects the general transformation of world religion and myth through time but on a different, accelerated, space-age scale.
 
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Limbo said:
@Loss Leader, the transformation of comic book characters, such as Superman from a golem to the modern alien we all know and love, reflects the general transformation of world religion and myth through time but on a different, accelerated, space-age scale.
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"To a ten-year-old boy with a hammer everything looks like a nail".

"Sometimes a cigar is just a good smoke."

:dig:
 
fuelair said:
Subtle hint, BSG is Lord of the Rings. For special points, who is Galadriel, who is Tom Bombadil, who is Aragorn??? And, a reverse, Who is Susan Ivanova ? Interestingly, there is no Sauron as such though there are his shadow minions.
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AAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH

Damn it, I meant (as should be obvious from character notes (I hope )) that I meant B5, not BSG. BSG is a js something else entirely and not that good at it. Either time.
 
Limbo said:
Well, that's ok. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Hari Sheldon is the founder of an orthodoxy, and he establishes it with science not mana. The danger to that orthodoxy is the Mule, who uses mana not science.
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Seldon, but who's counting!!!!!:)
 
Limbo said:
The secret history of the sci-fi/comic book genre revolves around the paranormal experiences of many of the grandfathers and giants of that genre. An obvious example that many of you are familiar with is Philip K. Dick.
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"Paranormal" is an odd way to spell "drug".

And very few science-fiction writers were Philip K Dick.

What were the paranormal experiences of E. E. Smith? Jack Vance? A. E. van Vogt? Cordwainer Smith? Jack Williamson? Isaac Asimov? Arthur C Clarke? Robert Heinlein? C J Cherryh? L Sprague de Camp? Fletcher Pratt? Fredric Brown? Frederik Pohl? Cyril M Kornbluth? Henry Kuttner? C L Moore? Larry Niven? Jerry Pournelle? Lois McMaster Bujold? Connie Willis? Iain M Banks? Greg Bear? Greg Benford? David Brin? Leigh Brackett? Poul Anderson? Hal Clement? Theodore Sturgeon? Robert Silverberg?

Just as a religion revolves around the paranormal experiences of their founders.

"Kripal’s approach to science fiction literature and comic books is multifaceted. Without ignoring the standard academic treatment of matters such as authorial background, historical setting, and cultural trends, Kripal brings in a neglected additional element that transforms those details while integrating them into a wider whole. His focus on the experiential element of sci-fi and comic books is one that is less frequently done justice to – at least, in the academic treatments of this topic with which I am familiar.
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"Kripal's 'Mutants and Mystics: Science Fiction, Superhero Comics, and the Paranormal' (2011) is an awkward, clumsy and undigested mess of a book; at 376 pages, it reads more like 736, as Kripal goes on and on pressing his continually vague and circular argument, without ever really getting anywhere, and caps the book off with a glowing tribute to, of all people, Whitley Strieber, author of 'Communion' (1987) and its many sequels."

http://www.amazon.com/Mutants-Mysti...?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addTwoStar&showViewpoints=0
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
Damn zee English Language.

What I was trying to say was Whitley Strieber liked the book in the OP. Not that he liked Last and First Men. I don't suppose Strieber has even heard of Stapledon. :(
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I'm not sure Streiber has heard anything except the crap he spilled all over some nice blank paper.
 
MontagK505 said:
The sci-fi/comic books etc are presented as fiction. Religion is presented as truth by it's believers. I don't think the comparison works.
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For the most part this is true but there are exceptions.

Ripley Believe it or Not comics in the late 1960s though early 1980s was saying its stories were "true" be they war stories, ghost stories, or demon-monster stories. Boris Karloff Tales of Mystery similarly would have the occasional piece that claimed it was "true".

EC comics had an entire issue on the UFO "coverup" and the occasional "speculative" piece where a classic religious story was given a sci-fi bent. There was the classic Adam and Eve were space travelers trope (that even showed up in Twilight Zone BTW), the Noah's ark was really a space ship idea, and the Jesus may have been a spaceman using a limited stockpile of high technology to perform his miracles.
from 2106 and The Andromeda Strain has an insanely detailed (and totally fictitious) bibliography at the end of the book
 
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Limbo said:
OK I finished watching the original BSG pilot episode of the classic series. I'm ready to present my deconstruction.

At first glance, it's a telling of the 'ancient astronaut' theory, Erich Von Daniken style. Under the surface, it is an iteration of the archetype of the apocalyse.

The Council of Twelve and their respective Battlestars represent humanity as a whole at the end of an age. Baltar represents the social institutions of religion, he is appointed by 'providence'. Adama represents the shaman who bypasses the social institutions and recieves the 'revelation' (apocalyse as revelation) directly by descending into the 'underworld'.

The Galactica and the rag-tag fleet of 220 ships represents the 'total man', (22 as Master Builder) who desends into the underworld and Adama & crew represent his personality aspects. He desends into the underworld at the moment Starbuck builds the 'perfect pyramid' in his poker game and wins the gold.

They travel the underworld, pursuing and finding the 13th colony (13 as change) and then return from the underworld to the world of the living, and bring the 'elixer' or medicine to heal the Wasteland, resulting in a new heaven and a new earth. Classic shamanic formula of initiation, revelation, return.
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Yeah, I thought you were making it up. Battlestar Galactica is actually based on Mormonism. Creator Glen A. Larson was a Mormon and used his religion as a source of much of the series.

So there is an explicit religious connection, you just got it entirely wrong. This should tell you all you need to know about your analysis.
 
Limbo said:
I haven't read it, but since you are so excited about it I took a look at the wiki page. It looks pretty straightforward.

Severian starts out as part of a social institution, it is where he gets his authority from, just like a priest. Then through a mystical experiece of his soul (symbolized by Thecla) his mercy is awakened... he is initiated by the Sacred Feminine, his Anima. He is then incompatible with the orthodoxy of his time and place. Then the classic monomyth formula of departure, fulfilment, and return seems to unfold.

It looks like a good book.
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Analysing a book you have not read? This does not aid your analytical credibility. Nor does entirely missing the BSG-Mormon connection.
 
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