Merged Relativity+ / Farsight

No it doesn't. You must know it doesn't, because the electron-positron pair has to morph back into a single photon, which is in breach of conservation of momentum. And if it did, that photon couldn't be propagating at the speed of light, because electrons and positrons can't travel at the speed of light. And of course if the photon energy is less than 1022keV, there isn't enough energy to create an electron and a positron.

Even a child can see the problems.

It's perfectly reasonable to question how this happens given a description of QED that doesn't actually involve the calculations and just involves the drawing of Feynman diagrams. I don't know of a good way to explain why it doesn't apply to a loop like this without resorting to the calculation or pointing out simply that virtual particles aren't like real particles.

Perhaps this article expresses it well?
http://profmattstrassler.com/articl...ysics-basics/virtual-particles-what-are-they/

The over-reliance on Feynman diagrams perhaps sometimes obfuscates other parts of what the theory is actually saying.
 
Edd, you made a mistake, get used to it. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got something else I need to do.

In short: what ctamblyn said.
Put longer, I'm happy to admit to having read your post in a way you may not have intended, in which case you must explain why you have chosen 1.0 m2.5s-1.5, or alternatively the fundamental physics significance of 1/10,000,000 the distance from the North Pole to the Equator via Dunkerque, and the fundamental physics significance of 1/86,400 of a mean solar day. I think you will find that challenging, as the electron mass was apparently fixed long before any human settlement in that bit of France, or indeed the creation of the solar system.
 
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I've "derived" (i.e. ripped off from xkcd) a formula for the proton-electron mass ratio:

Basically, mumble mumble volume of an sphere in 10 dimensions mumble mumble harmonics, and it can be shown mumble mumble kissing numbers mumble mumble plus higher-order corrections mumble mumble, which has been left as an exercise for the reader. Thus:

mp/me = 6π5.
 
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I've "derived" (i.e. ripped off from xkcd) a formula for the proton-electron mass ratio:

Basically, mumble mumble volume of an sphere in 10 dimensions mumble mumble, and it can be shown mumble mumble kissing numbers mumble mumble plus higher-order corrections mumble mumble, which has been left as an exercise for the reader. Thus:

mp/me = 6π5.

See also
"The Temptations of Numerology" by John Maddox, Nature, 304:11, 1983. This may not be the earliest reference to this little gem of course.
 
edd said:
In short: what ctamblyn said. Put longer, I'm happy to admit to having read your post in a way you may not have intended...
Apology accepted.

edd said:
...in which case you must explain why you have chosen 1.0 m2.5s-1.5, or alternatively the fundamental physics significance of 1/10,000,000 the distance from the North Pole to the Equator via Dunkerque, and the fundamental physics significance of 1/86,400 of a mean solar day. I think you will find that challenging, as the electron mass was apparently fixed long before any human settlement in that bit of France, or indeed the creation of the solar system.
Sigh. What underlies this is that the motion of light defines our time and distance. Imagine you're looking up at the sky watching a beam of light traversing past the moon. You watch it for a while, and then you say:

"Right. While that light beam moved from there to there the reading in my parallel-mirror light-clock went up to 299,792,458, and we'll call that "the time". In fact we'll call that one second. And we'll say that the metre is 1/299,792,458th of "the distance" moved by light in one second. So we'll say the speed of light c is 299,792,458 metres per second".

It doesn't matter how fast the light moves, you will always say the speed of light is 299,792,458 m/s. On top of that photon energy is E=hf. The h relates to distance because action is momentum x distance which relates to that guitar-string pluck displacement*, distance being defined by the motion of light c. Momentum is just energy divided by c, mass is just momentum divided by c, and frequency is just the reciprocal of time which is again defined by the motion of light c. For a stable spin-half Dirac's belt "resonance" the light has to sweep round an h-bar-diameter path at c AND go round orthogonally at half that rate, and this can only occur there's a harmonic between the two motions. It's like you have to pluck the guitar string into a "closed string" loop. Only space is three-dimensional and the electron has a spherical electric field, so you know it isn't sweeping round a moebius-strip loop, it's sweeping a 4π sphere like that over-inflated twisted torus. Meanwhile, everything is pointing you back to the motion of light.

Read my post #1198 again. Try to understand it. Make sure you look at that Watt balance stuff. Note where I said the elastic properties of the wire are analogous to ε0 and μ0. The permittivity is like how easy is it to displace space, and permeability is like how well does it push back. Make sure you read Maxwell's treatise where he talked about "stress in a medium". Also make sure you check out Percy Hammond where he talked about electromagnetism in terms of curvature. And since you're a cosmologist**, see http://arxiv.org/abs/0912.2678 where on page 5 you can read this:

"We see that the modification of GR entailed by MOND does not enter here by modifying the ‘elasticity’ of spacetime (except perhaps its strength), as is done in f(R) theories and the like."

I'm no MOND fan, that's just a little clue. As is waves run through it. As is the shear stress term in the stress-energy tensor. Shear stress! That tells you in an instant that it's bleedin' elastic. Did I ever tell you that my mate Qiu Hong Hu was at ABB50/25 talking to Michael Atiyah about the trivial-knot electron and the trefoil proton? That's the best-kept secret in contemporary physics. Despite Witten's contribution, there ain't no TQFT in the standard model. The standing-wave electron has been excommunicated.


* Take a look at some pictures of the electromagnetic spectrum. Note how the depicted wave height is constant. That's what underlies your h. There's only one wavelength that will do to get the wave to displace itself into a closed standing-wave path.

** See how ctamblyn fell flat on his face? He got steamrollered. Don't let particle-physics fairy-tale quacks bankrupt cosmology too.


Right, that's enough of that. If you don't accept what I'm telling you we'll just go round in circles. Ask me about some problems in cosmology instead, and I'll try to give you some kind of answer that makes sense from my fundamental physics viewpoint.
 
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<SNIP>
Delta baryons, pah.

<SNIP>

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* Take a look at some pictures of the electromagnetic spectrum. Note how the depicted wave height is constant. That's what underlies your h. There's only one wavelength that will do to get the wave to displace itself into a closed standing-wave path.

Sorry, I just can't resist quoting this bit for posterity. This common amplitude nonsense never fails to make me laugh, especially with the appeal to pretty pictures. As for the rest of this post of Duffield's, we've seen Relativity+ dismantled over and over again in this thread and elsewhere. Indeed, all over the web. So I agree - that's surely enough of that.
 
:eye-poppi

Deal with the challenge Farsight. Explain why Worsley and (since you keep supporting that nonsense) you are inserting a number that happens to be 1 in SI units without justification. To everyone else it is patent nonsense, but you think it is legitimate physics. It'd help your case that you understand physics if you didn't claim this sort of nonsense was legitimate.
 
No it doesn't.
Yes it does! You must know this because you should know what a virtual particle is and that they conserve momentum.
Or maybe this is a bit of ignorance, Farsight: Virtual particle
In physics, a virtual particle is a transient fluctuation that exhibits many of the characteristics of an ordinary particle, but that exists for a limited time. The concept of virtual particles arises in perturbation theory of quantum field theory where interactions between ordinary particles are described in terms of exchanges of virtual particles. Any process involving virtual particles admits a schematic representation known as a Feynman diagram, in which virtual particles are represented by internal lines. [1][2]

Virtual particles do not necessarily carry the same mass as the corresponding real particle, although they always conserve energy and momentum. ...
(my emphasis added)

Even a child can see the problems.
Even a child could see that you are quite confused, Farsight :eye-poppi!
You start by talking about pair production, for example when a real photon splits into a real electron and a real positron with the help of a nucleus to conserve momentum.

Then you think that this is the creation of virtual particles due to the uncertainly principle within QED, e.g. the virtual fermions and virtual anti-fermions that a real photon fluctuates into and out of
N.B. the Two-photon physics Wikipedia article does not explicitly state that the particles are virtual.

You may even be confusing this with the virtual electrons and virtual positrons that a real photon creates due to the uncertainty principle.
 
These questions are still outstanding Farsight

These questions are still outstanding Farsight.
Do you now understand the meaning of Space-time interval and its values (positive, zero and negative)?
First asked 26 July 2013 - 19 days and counting.

Farsight: Source for "a homogeneous universe is a flat universe"
First asked 26 July 2013 - 19 days and counting.
Remember - "The statements are wrong" is an answer!

Farsight: Can you list the evidence for a finite universe?
First asked 26 July 2013 - 19 days and counting.

Farsight Show mathematically that an infinite universe in GR cannot expand.
First asked 26 July 2013 - 19 days and counting.

Farsight: Support your assertion that GR conserves energy
First asked 26 July 2013 - 19 days and counting.
This is GR in general not the case of black holes.
 
And you know that Planck length is l=√(ћG/c³). Replace √(ћG) with 4πn where n is a suitable value. Now set n to 1, and work out 4πn/√(c³).
And let us note what looks like amazing ignorance of the papers that you cite, Farsight!
What are the units of "c½/3πn", Farsight? (First asked 27th June 2013)
There is Andrew Worsley (2011) Harmonic quintessence and the derivation of the charge and mass of the electron and the proton and quark masses. Physics Essays: June 2011, Vol. 24, No. 2, pp. 240-253.

He claims to have a ground-breaking new theory (harmonic quintessence) that explains the origin of mass. There are indicators that he is a crank though
  • This amazing theory is published in an obscure journal behind a pay wall.
  • His theory starts with the equation E = hn where E is energy h is Planck's constant and n is a number.
    This is not harmonic nor quintessence :eek:!
  • That n presumably is the n that appears in the above equation.
    If that is right then Andrew Worsley is really dumb because he has got the units of measurement wrong.
See his thread THE ORIGIN OF ENERGY AND MASS in another forum where he states
E =hn
where E is the total energy of a system, h is Planck’s constant and n is the number of Planck quanta present in a quantum system, per unit time.
 
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Read my post #1198 again. Try to understand it. Make sure you look at that Watt balance stuff. Note where I said the elastic properties of the wire are analogous to ε0 and μ0. The permittivity is like how easy is it to displace space, and permeability is like how well does it push back.
Those are *units factors*, just like c is.

Make sure you read Maxwell's treatise where he talked about "stress in a medium".
Thump, thump, thump, thump, thump. Just like a theologian. His work was NOT the final word on the electromagnetic field.

* Take a look at some pictures of the electromagnetic spectrum. Note how the depicted wave height is constant. That's what underlies your h. There's only one wavelength that will do to get the wave to displace itself into a closed standing-wave path.
That is a *schematic diagram*. It's like a cartoon. Farsight, that's grotesque literal-mindedness on your part. At least the fundies have the good sense to recognize that Jesus Christ's parables were fiction.

If someone was to draw a line-drawing portrait of you, Farsight, how would you react to it?
 
Let's review the history of measurement units and what they were defined from.

Time: Second
Original: Mean solar day
1956: Year (a specific one)
1967: Cs-133 ground-state hyperfine transition

Length: Meter
1795: Earth size
1799: Platinum bar, later platinum-iridium bar
1960: Kr-86 electronic transition: 2p10 - 5d5
1983: Second with c fixed

Mass: Gram (kilogram)
1795: A certain volume of water
1799: Platinum object, later platinum-iridium object
(proposed): Second with h, c fixed

Temperature: Kelvin
Original: Melting and boiling points of water
1954: Absolute zero, triple point of water
(proposed): Second with kb, h, c fixed

Electromagnetic units: rather complicated
Original: permittivity of vacuum defined, elementary charge measured
(proposed): elementary charge defined, permittivity of vacuum measured

But I'm sure that Farsight will see motion in everything, just like a Freudian seeing sex in everything, at least according to a common stereotype of Freudianism.
 
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Edd: I dealt with it. Try to understand what I said. Note that the wave nature of matter is not in doubt. Everything is waves. Even neutrinos move at c, or so close to c that we can't measure the difference. Everything leads back to the motion of waves and the "strength" of space. At the fundamental level, that's all there is. If you can't understand this, fine, but I really can't make it any simpler for you, so let's move on.
 
Edd: I dealt with it.
No you haven't.

You show not the slightest sign of understanding what the problem is, let alone how to handle it.

Where exactly have you answered this:
Why 1.0 m2.5s-1.5?

Whatever claimed physics you have cannot be right if you cannot balance the units without introducing completely arbitrary and not even remotely justified factors.

This is too basic an error. The way to move on is for you to admit it's complete nonsense and ditch it.
 
I really can't make it any simpler for you, so let's move on.

John Duffield can't even make it coherent, it seems, much like the rest of Relativity+.

I'll make it simpler for the benefit of any newcomers to the thread.

Glossing over the previous shocking errors regarding units and standards for now, he has basically added a new parameter to the standard model in terms of which he has expressed the electron mass (and even then, he got the value a bit wrong and had to invent an excuse for the discrepancy). However, since this parameter appears nowhere else at all and there is no available theoretical derivation of its value, the only way to determine its value is to measure the electron mass. So, John Duffield (channeling Andrew Worlsey) has explained nothing at all. He has just pushed some symbols around on a piece of paper.
 
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