Relationships and religion

[RussDill]

This message is just for those people who are or have been in a relationship, but their SO (significant other) is not an athiest, nor understands athiesm (or for you agnostics out there, insert agnosticism). So, this message is for everybody really.

Just kindof a poll to see how people handle such things:

False conversion (pretend to be a [fill in the blank])?

Pretend to be a religion that isn't well understood (ie, buddism)?

Try to convert your SO to your side of the fence?

Give up?

Try to reach an understanding?

Some families would even go as far as disowning their own child for marrying an athiest, making the situation even more difficult. I'm paticulary interested in the "reach an understanding angle". How does one explain that they are an athiest without sounding like they are tearing down their own SO?

 

[RussDill]

My own situation

I've been dating someone right now, and things are going to a head. I've been able to explain that I don't think everything in the bible is crap, I still think that you should treat others the way you would want to be treated, honor your father and mother, etc.

It really bothers her that I don't believe in any higher power, regardless of what it might be. However, I don't think Cthulu would help. I try to explain my position, how it simply doesn't make any sense to me, but I generally get answers like "it'll all be explained in heaven"

It really bothers her that I'll never pray for her, and thatI don't believe that there is life after death. I'd really hate to lose someone I love so much over such simple things.

 

[El Greco]

Since you have explained your views and you are not fooling her, I would suggest to act according to her level of tolerance. If you think she can talk and argue about such things without jeopardizing your relationship, then by all means try to talk about it. If, on the other hand, you are afraid that such talk may actually draw her away from you, I would suggest to completely forget about such conversations and just try to point out the logical thing in everyday matters, and tangentially refer to the irrationality of religion only when such issues arise ("why should so many innocent kids die every day", etc). She could be reformed slowly, in her own pace.

 

[RussDill]

Thing is, she is really running out of tolerance for my viewpoint. Ie, "You'll never pray for me", or, "If you really loved me enough, you'd trust me and believe"

 

[Hexxenhammer]

Dump her. She's not going to understand your position or come around to your's, and you don't agree with her's. If it's an issue now, it will be an issue later.

 

[El Greco]

Dump her. She's not going to understand your position or come around to your's, and you don't agree with her's. If it's an issue now, it will be an issue later.

I wouldn't be so radical. I believe in people. You could at least try, if you think she might be the woman of your life. Perhaps you will have to pretend you are actually buying her arguments and start thinking about god. It will be easier this way to draw her out of it, since she will not be anymore so defensive. But this depends on your level of tolerance and how far are you ready to go in order to make something out of all this.

 

[canadarocks]

My two cents -

Dump her. She's not going to understand your position or come around to your's, and you don't agree with her's. If it's an issue now, it will be an issue later.

I agree. If someone can't accept you for who you are, get out. The goal of relationships is not to want to change the other person (I think this is a source of some divorces).

 

[triadboy]

Re: My own situation

I'd really hate to lose someone I love so much over such simple things.

See if she will read a book on the subject and maybe she will see another side. One of my favorites for new conversions is Steve Allen: On the Bible, Religion, and Morality. His slant is there may be a higher power, but it certainly isn't the higher power the bible describes. He goes through all the Gospels, letters, books, etc in an alphabetical format. Great toilet reading!

 

[RussDill]

I have tolerance of her point of view, I disagree on her taste on lamps as well, but its not something to break up over. And I don't think the solution is as simple as breaking up with everyone who doesn't accept you for who you are. The vast majority of people are religious in some way and would a mate that also is religous. Its a problem I've had in the past, and its a problem I'll have in the future, so I'm sure others deal with it as well.

Nice idea on the reading books things. I'm trying to get her to read the salmon of doubt (douglas adams)

 

[triadboy]

I have tolerance of her point of view, I disagree on her taste on lamps as well,

Are you sure you two are compatible? She's religious, you're an atheist. You like modern furniture, she likes Early American. I say run....run as fast as you can. (Because of the Early American furniture, of course)

 

[Rose]

I've found that people that believe in the bible rarely can simply "let me be me". They do, after all, believe an immortal soul is in peril of eternal damnation. Further, there are passages that indicate a believer should not marry an unbeliever. Thus not only do you have to deal with the individual, but the associated church/congregation of their particular denomination.

the only thing I'd suggest is for each party to list the five most important things in a working relationship. If religion comes in number one or two for the other party, start looking for another long term partner. The odds are simply against a happy long term outcome when one person is death-fixated and the other life-oriented.

 

[RussDill]

Are you sure you two are compatible? She's religious, you're an atheist. You like modern furniture, she likes Early American. I say run....run as fast as you can. (Because of the Early American furniture, of course)

Its almost guranteed that someone I meet will not be an athiest. I'm willing to accept that, and work through that.

BTW, you are really good, how'd you know that I was an IKEA junkie and that she likes old lamps?

 

[cbish]

RussDill

May I ask how old you two are?

I am not religious at all. My wife was raised Mormon. In fact, her family is the epitamy of mormonism. Her father is the Bishop. All her siblings are card carrying, active members. My wife isn't. In fact, on her fathers side of the family, she is the only one, of about 40 grandchildren that isn't practicing.

Fortunately for me, she was corrupt when I met her, so our relationship has been pretty good. Although I get along with her family wonderfully, there has been and will continue to be tension. Basically, I've been the one to show tolerance. I do get dragged to church once or twice a year when visiting. I go kicking & screaming and I just bite my tongue when someone says something stupid. Admittedly, I bend for them. They rarely bend for me.

So, with that said, let me add, that it is an issue and will always be an issue. It will never go away. How religious is her family? Is she "born again" or are their deep roots? You have to be very honest of your tolerance level. For me, my tolerance in some area's has grown. In other areas, it's waned. Where will you be in 10-15-20 years on this issue?

 

[RussDill]

I've found that people that believe in the bible rarely can simply "let me be me". They do, after all, believe an immortal soul is in peril of eternal damnation. Further, there are passages that indicate a believer should not marry an unbeliever. Thus not only do you have to deal with the individual, but the associated church/congregation of their particular denomination.

There are also passages that say homosexuals will burn forever in hell, and that you aren't supposed to remarry after divorce. Most religious people don't let stuff that someone said thousands of years ago get in the way of their lives. Its more about being religious and feeling religious.

the only thing I'd suggest is for each party to list the five most important things in a working relationship. If religion comes in number one or two for the other party, start looking for another long term partner. The odds are simply against a happy long term outcome when one person is death-fixated and the other life-oriented.

I'm thinking I'd be looking for a long, long, long, long, long time. I was thinking people on this board had tried and/or implemented other, less drastic solutions.

 

[RussDill]

RussDill

May I ask how old you two are?

24

So, with that said, let me add, that it is an issue and will always be an issue. It will never go away. How religious is her family? Is she "born again" or are their deep roots? You have to be very honest of your tolerance level. For me, my tolerance in some area's has grown. In other areas, it's waned. Where will you be in 10-15-20 years on this issue?

neither her, or her family is paticularly religious. She rarely attends service, and when she does, its one of the youth ones with the rock bands and the guy talking about power like in power tools. The only fundie in her family is her brother, a southern babtist, who she disagrees with daily.

 

[cbish]

Well, that's good.

Could you perceive her religous interest waining? It sounds like there is hope. I think you two just need to have a serious talk.

You guys are pretty young. At 24, you're still greatly influenced by your childhood and your immediate family. I remember when we were first married, my wife went through about a 6 month period of revival. It went away.

 

[Flatworm]

Well, tomorrow I will be getting married. My Fiancee is not religious, but still wants a few religious trappings at the ceremony. I have, however, insisted that religious references be removed from my vows because:

1. It would make a mockery of them to make references to things I do not believe.

2. The phrase "be a husband to her in accordance with the word of God" would technically require me to beat her periodically, depending on which version of the Bible you use.

Thankfully, this doesn't bother her. In my experience, it is definitely better to keep looking until you find someone who holds compatible beliefs.

Tangential rant: We told the owner of the chapel we're using that is was to be a non-religious wedding. After acknowledging this, she nontheless allowed references to God to be inserted into the vows, Suggested several religious pieces of music, and retained the reading of Bible verse and prayer in the ceremony. Apparently she has been so utterly surrounded by Christian culture that for her, "nonreligious" is synonymous with "Nondenominational Christianity". Very annoying.

 

[El Greco]

2. The phrase "be a husband to her in accordance with the word of God" would technically require me to beat her periodically, depending on which version of the Bible you use.

Thankfully, this doesn't bother her.

What a woman! You lucky b*stard!

Back to the original subject: RussDill, I think you have to be sneaky, versatile and resourceful. From the way you describe the situation it seems to me that she has probably freaked a little from a sudden and unexpected exposure to atheism.

 

[fishbob]

Congratulations Flatworm.

Best of luck.

 

[Cleopatra]

RussDill

I am sorry but I am not so optimistic about this relationship of yours.

The issue with religion created serious problems to my marriage. I am religious but in a very secular way meaning that religion is a very personal thing to me. If I don't tell you ,you won't notice how religious I am, if this tells you something.

My husband though was very and openly religious because he was an American of Greek origin. His Greek was poor but Religion was his way to define his identity. It was Religion that made him feel Greek. Also, he didn't like Jews and he saw the fact that I am of Jewish origin as an opportunity to save me....he blamed on my origin the fact that wasn't openly religious or at least the way he was. He didn't believe the creationist crap ( orthodox Greeks are not stuck to the Bible anyway) but he was nuts with the religious moralism and since he was very educated he had a very sophisticated way to preach and impose his ideas.

He expected that I escort him to the church on Sunday, he made clear to me that he believed that I was rejecting him just because I wasn't sharing his ideas regarding the importance of religion in life. I don't mention other comic details because I don't want it to sound as I am ridiculing him but the way he was practicing religion was more than ridiculous.

I tried really hard to work this out but whatever I did was wrong. If I wasn't following him I was rejecting him If I did he claimed that he could see the "jewish hypocricy" (sic) in my eyes.

Needless to say that this attitude made me sick towards Churches, Religion and above all Christians. I am so glad that we didn't have children!!!!

I can totally relate to that phrase in your post :

I'd really hate to lose someone I love so much over such simple things.

I was feeling exactly the same but yet I have found out the hard way that these are not "simple things".

Don't get married to her before having an agreement on that. I urge you even to make her sign a contract that she won't make your life miserable!!!

This is my theory: Don't get married to somebody who doesn't have the same religion and none of you is willing to convert or he doesn't share your views regarding this issue.

Sorry for sounding so pessimistic but I can't help it.