Reincarnation as a trivial scientific fact

[wogoga]

So what if Galileo rejected Kepler's heliocentric model? Who appointed Galileo spokesman for the "scientific elite"? You would expect people to require evidence to convince them that an alternative model of the solar system was better than the existing one, wouldn't you? And that's what happened, according to Wikipedia's entry on Kepler: Some scientists just ignored him, some raised objections to particular aspects of his argument, but others set out to test it against observations. No sign there of a unified "elite" closing ranks against a misunderstood genius. People put his ideas to the test, and they proved to be good predictors of real observations.

As to your "Some scientists just ignored him" your reference says:

"Kepler's laws were not immediately accepted. Several major figures such as Galileo and René Descartes completely ignored Kepler's Astronomia nova."​

Especially in the case of Descartes(1596-1650), it seems to me rather a silence on Kepler (1571-1630) than an actual ignorance.

As to "some raised objections":

"Many astronomers, including Kepler's teacher, Michael Maestlin [1550-1631], objected to Kepler's introduction of physics into his astronomy. Some adopted compromise positions. Ismael Boulliau [1605-1694] … while Seth Ward [1617-1689] …"​

As to "others set out to test it against observations":

"Several astronomers tested Kepler's theory, and its various modifications, against astronomical observations. … In the case of the transit of Mercury in 1631, … Jeremiah Horrocks, who observed the 1639 Venus transit, …"​

By then Kepler already had bitten the dust.

As contrast, a quote from Introduction of Kepler’s Somnium, by Edward Rosen, Dover:

"When Kepler was enrolled at Tübingen University, the students there were required to compose a number of dissertations or disputations. One such composition, written by Kepler in 1593, dealt with the following question: How would the phenomena occurring in the heavens appear to an observer stationed on the moon? Kepler had hit upon this ingenious device in an effort to overcome the deep-rooted hostility to the Copernican astronomy. According to Copernicus, the earth moves very swiftly. But the people who live on the earth do not see or hear or feel this movement. Yet they can watch the moon perform various motions. These lunar motions, however, would escape detection by an observer located on the moon, for the simple reason that he would be participating in those motions. ...

It was never presented at a Tübingen disputation, however, because Veit Müller, the professor in charge of those academic exercises, was so unalterably opposed to Copernicanism that he refused to permit Kepler's theses to be heard."​

From both a scientific and a psychological point of view, your deep-rooted hostility to panpsychism (also advocated by Kepler) and reincarnation is essentially comparable with the deep-rooted hostility of Kepler’s professor to heliocentrism.

And wouldn't you also like to "refuse to permit" such utter nonsense as evidence for evolution by reincarnation "to be heard", would you?

Cheers,
Wolfgang

Native genius is not the result of a lucky genetic mixture, but of hard work in previous lives

 

[paximperium]

So still no evidence for this "reincarnation" thing.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

From both a scientific and a psychological point of view, your deep-rooted hostility to panpsychism (also advocated by Kepler) and reincarnation is essentially comparable with the deep-rooted hostility of Kepler’s professor to heliocentrism.

And wouldn't you also like to "refuse to permit" such utter nonsense as evidence for evolution by reincarnation "to be heard", would you?

You're projecting. And you're completely wrong.

I have no "deep-rooted hostility" to panpsychism or reincarnation, just as I have no deep rooted hostility to unicorns or pixies (or gods, for that matter).

I have no desire whatever to "refuse to permit" nonsensical ideas to be heard. If I had, why would I seek out a forum like this one where such ideas are openly discussed?

If it makes you happy to think you're being victimised, go right ahead. But if your ideas are not being accepted here then it's not because of any deep-rooted hostility - it's because of the lack of evidence.

 

[dafydd]

So still no evidence for this "reincarnation" thing.

Not a shred yet,this is getting boring.

 

[shuttlt]

Is there any way of linking this to womb twins? The OP there was looking for exactly the sort of evidence that this thread seems to have in spades. Wogoga could even be her control group.

 

[wogoga]

At what point do these souls ensoul? Conception?

I've already answered this question here.

From personal experience (resulting from "lucky coincidences") I further conclude that conception (meiosis, recombination) and the embryonal development cost a lot of psychic energy. In the fetal development it could be rather growth spurts which cost relevant amounts of such energy.

Psychic energy is what living beings refresh during inactivity such sleep (machines and artificial intelligence don't get tired). Depressions can be caused by of lack of psychic energy. Such energy is completey different from material mass/energy.

In the case of identical twins the only question which seems unclear to me is the following: Are both souls in the same way implicated in recombination, or can the selection of the genetic makeup of both essentially be "supervised" by one of the two souls alone?

The (start of of the) birth process, if induced by the fetus, may also need a lot of psychic energy.

After birth, more and more psychic energy is transferred from the old to the new incarnation. So it is not rare that persons die shortly after the birth of a new incarnation. Reasonably plausible examples seem to me:

• Michelangelo died three days after Galileo’s birth
• Bernhard Förster committed suicide a month and a half after Hitler’s birth
• The grandfather of my father drank himself to death a month after the birth of my father

Suggestive of continuous ensoulment are also animals which die shortly after reproduction (semelparity). Such a strategy makes especially sense for migratory animals which come back to their birth grounds after huge journeys. The more often an animal has come back to the same place in previous lives, the easier to find this place, because instinctive behavior is essentially stored in the animal soul. So animals are reborn as their own offspring, and during the incarnation process of the offspring the parents die.

An interesting quote from Eel life history:

"How the adults make the 6,000 km (4,000 mile) open ocean journey back to their spawning grounds north of the Antilles, Haiti, and Puerto Rico remains unknown. By the time they leave the continent their gut dissolves making feeding impossible, so they have to rely on stored energy alone."​

Cheers, Wolfgang

The peer review system is also an ingenious reinvention of censorship

 

[paximperium]

I can write better fantasy stories.
Still no evidence. How dull.

 

[dafydd]

I've already answered this question here.

From personal experience (resulting from "lucky coincidences") I further conclude that conception (meiosis, recombination) and the embryonal development cost a lot of psychic energy. In the fetal development it could be rather growth spurts which cost relevant amounts of such energy.

Psychic energy is what living beings refresh during inactivity such sleep (machines and artificial intelligence don't get tired). Depressions can be caused by of lack of psychic energy. Such energy is completey different from material mass/energy.

In the case of identical twins the only question which seems unclear to me is the following: Are both souls in the same way implicated in recombination, or can the selection of the genetic makeup of both essentially be "supervised" by one of the two souls alone?

The (start of of the) birth process, if induced by the fetus, may also need a lot of psychic energy.

After birth, more and more psychic energy is transferred from the old to the new incarnation. So it is not rare that persons die shortly after the birth of a new incarnation. Reasonably plausible examples seem to me:

• Michelangelo died three days after Galileo’s birth
• Bernhard Förster committed suicide a month and a half after Hitler’s birth
• The grandfather of my father drank himself to death a month after the birth of my father

Suggestive of continuous ensoulment are also animals which die shortly after reproduction (semelparity). Such a strategy makes especially sense for migratory animals which come back to their birth grounds after huge journeys. The more often an animal has come back to the same place in previous lives, the easier to find this place, because instinctive behavior is essentially stored in the animal soul. So animals are reborn as their own offspring, and during the incarnation process of the offspring the parents die.

An interesting quote from Eel life history:

"How the adults make the 6,000 km (4,000 mile) open ocean journey back to their spawning grounds north of the Antilles, Haiti, and Puerto Rico remains unknown. By the time they leave the continent their gut dissolves making feeding impossible, so they have to rely on stored energy alone."​

Cheers, Wolfgang

The peer review system is also an ingenious reinvention of censorship

Take a look in a dictionary and check out the definition of the word energy.There is no such thing as "pyschic energy",you're off into the realms of fantasy now.Will you be presenting your evidence for the existence of reincarnation any time soon?

 

[shuttlt]

Take a look in a dictionary and check out the definition of the word energy.There is no such thing as "pyschic energy",you're off into the realms of fantasy now.Will you be presenting your evidence for the existence of reincarnation any time soon?

If it is energy, surely this points the way towards an experimental test? If you kill something, mass/energy should be released.

Snopes report the weight of the soul as being somewhat less that an ounce.

 

[wogoga]

Psychic energy is what living beings refresh during inactivity such sleep (machines and artificial intelligence don't get tired).

Take a look in a dictionary and check out the definition of the word energy. There is no such thing as "pyschic energy", you're off into the realms of fantasy now.

A Google search:

• 203,000 entries for "psychic energy"
• 315,000 entries for "mental energy"
• 307,000 entries for "spiritual energy"
• 333,000 entries for "physical energy"

A quote which seems representative to me:

Scientists have never found brain cells (neurons) that lack energy and "need" to sleep. Nor have they found neurons that run-out of neurotransmitters during the awake state and need to sleep to replenish them.

There is no universal decline in firing rate during sleep. Neurons in some areas decrease their activity during sleep while neurons in other areas actually increase their firing. This is valid both for NREM as well as REM period sleep. Furthermore, this has been observed both electrophysiologically and by functional imaging studies of the human brain.

It's not the absence of sensory stimulation that causes sleep. The body sensory stimulation can be severed and the animal still shows wake-sleep cycles.​

Another interesting quote:

The purpose of sleep remains one of the greatest unsolved mysteries in science. Although we spend roughly one-third of life asleep, researchers still do not know why.

While sleep is often thought to have evolved to play an unknown but vital role inside the body, a new theory now suggests it actually developed as a method to better deal with the outside world.

Sleep is often seen as bad for survival. Sleeping animals might be vulnerable to predators and cannot eat, mate, scout for prey, care for relatives or perform other behaviors key to getting by.​

Cheers, Wolfgang

 

[dafydd]

A Google search:

• 203,000 entries for "psychic energy"
• 315,000 entries for "mental energy"
• 307,000 entries for "spiritual energy"
• 333,000 entries for "physical energy"

A quote which seems representative to me:

Scientists have never found brain cells (neurons) that lack energy and "need" to sleep. Nor have they found neurons that run-out of neurotransmitters during the awake state and need to sleep to replenish them.

There is no universal decline in firing rate during sleep. Neurons in some areas decrease their activity during sleep while neurons in other areas actually increase their firing. This is valid both for NREM as well as REM period sleep. Furthermore, this has been observed both electrophysiologically and by functional imaging studies of the human brain.

It's not the absence of sensory stimulation that causes sleep. The body sensory stimulation can be severed and the animal still shows wake-sleep cycles.​

Another interesting quote:

The purpose of sleep remains one of the greatest unsolved mysteries in science. Although we spend roughly one-third of life asleep, researchers still do not know why.

While sleep is often thought to have evolved to play an unknown but vital role inside the body, a new theory now suggests it actually developed as a method to better deal with the outside world.

Sleep is often seen as bad for survival. Sleeping animals might be vulnerable to predators and cannot eat, mate, scout for prey, care for relatives or perform other behaviors key to getting by.​

Cheers, Wolfgang

Beware the perils of investigoogleing.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Sleep plays a role in memory and helps to keep the brain from overloading. Rather simple.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/06/050629070337.htm

 

[paximperium]

A Google search:

• 203,000 entries for "psychic energy"
• 315,000 entries for "mental energy"
• 307,000 entries for "spiritual energy"
• 333,000 entries for "physical energy"

A quote which seems representative to me:

Scientists have never found brain cells (neurons) that lack energy and "need" to sleep. Nor have they found neurons that run-out of neurotransmitters during the awake state and need to sleep to replenish them.

There is no universal decline in firing rate during sleep. Neurons in some areas decrease their activity during sleep while neurons in other areas actually increase their firing. This is valid both for NREM as well as REM period sleep. Furthermore, this has been observed both electrophysiologically and by functional imaging studies of the human brain.

It's not the absence of sensory stimulation that causes sleep. The body sensory stimulation can be severed and the animal still shows wake-sleep cycles.​

Another interesting quote:

The purpose of sleep remains one of the greatest unsolved mysteries in science. Although we spend roughly one-third of life asleep, researchers still do not know why.

While sleep is often thought to have evolved to play an unknown but vital role inside the body, a new theory now suggests it actually developed as a method to better deal with the outside world.

Sleep is often seen as bad for survival. Sleeping animals might be vulnerable to predators and cannot eat, mate, scout for prey, care for relatives or perform other behaviors key to getting by.​

Cheers, Wolfgang

So you have no idea what you quoted or what "psychic energy" is either.

 

[dafydd]

Sleep plays a role in memory and helps to keep the brain from overloading. Rather simple.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/06/050629070337.htm

Too simple for lala land.

 

[wollery]

Google searches for;

Kinetic energy - 4,560,000
Potential energy - 64,100,000
Gravitational energy - 3,550,000
Chemical energy - 37,500,000
Magnetic energy - 11,100,000
Sound energy - 75,000,000
Heat energy - 40,400,000
Thermal energy - 13,100,000
Electric energy - 106,000,000
Nuclear energy - 31,100,000


Did you have a point?

 

[Iconoclast08]

Wogoga-

Can this psychic energy be measured in any replicable way? And can you provide a clear definition of what comprises it?

Please understand that there is no sarcasm or combativeness to these questions. To be perfectly frank, I used to believe in a lot of this stuff during my pre-college days... concepts like "souls" and "psychic energy" carried an odd albeit comforting appeal for me, and it made me think that yes, there could be something "beyond" the material world that waited for us after death.

But eventually, I was educated out of it. I realized how many holes these concepts had in light of what we do know about the natural world through science, and gradually, these woo notions withered away. The distress that emerged from my letting go of the woo was quickly swept away by the sheer awe and beauty that I found in naturalistic explanations of the world and by the marvelously complex, intriguing, brain-based behaviors of human beings. As Dawkins would have it, unweaving the rainbow didn't cease to make it beautiful, but rather made it that much more beautiful, far more so than fuzzy tales of pots of gold and leprechauns at the end ever could. And as Laplace would have had it, there simply was "no need of that hypothesis" any longer.

 

[dafydd]

Wogoga-

Can this psychic energy be measured in any replicable way? And can you provide a clear definition of what comprises it?

Please understand that there is no sarcasm or combativeness to these questions. To be perfectly frank, I used to believe in a lot of this stuff during my pre-college days... concepts like "souls" and "psychic energy" carried an odd albeit comforting appeal for me, and it made me think that yes, there could be something "beyond" the material world that waited for us after death.

But eventually, I was educated out of it. I realized how many holes these concepts had in light of what we do know about the natural world through science, and gradually, these woo notions withered away. The distress that emerged from my letting go of the woo was quickly swept away by the sheer awe and beauty that I found in naturalistic explanations of the world and by the marvelously complex, intriguing, brain-based behaviors of human beings. As Dawkins would have it, unweaving the rainbow didn't cease to make it beautiful, but rather made it that much more beautiful, far more so than fuzzy tales of pots of gold and leprechauns at the end ever could. And as Laplace would have had it, there simply was "no need of that hypothesis" any longer.

I believed it all when I was younger,dowsing,ley lines,telekinesis,clairvoiancy,alien visitations,you name it.As I got older I gradually realized that there was no proof of the occult or supernatural and I began to educate myself in science.The real universe is much more amazing and fascinating than any woo you care to name.

 

[Iconoclast08]

The real universe is much more amazing and fascinating than any woo you care to name.

Here, here.

And thanks for sharing that.

 

[dafydd]

Google searches for;

Kinetic energy - 4,560,000
Potential energy - 64,100,000
Gravitational energy - 3,550,000
Chemical energy - 37,500,000
Magnetic energy - 11,100,000
Sound energy - 75,000,000
Heat energy - 40,400,000
Thermal energy - 13,100,000
Electric energy - 106,000,000
Nuclear energy - 31,100,000


Did you have a point?

That he could find gibberish via Google?

 

[shuttlt]

A Google search:

• 203,000 entries for "psychic energy"
• 315,000 entries for "mental energy"
• 307,000 entries for "spiritual energy"
• 333,000 entries for "physical energy"

• 1,260,000 entries for "faeries"
• 754,000 entries for "philosopher's stone"
• 333,000 entries for "little green men"
• 276,000 entries for "hollow earth"
• 1,300,000 entries for "nibiru"

Google hit counts are a poor indicator of things being real or not. Checking a dictionary definition of the word "energy", as suggested, would probably be a lot more reliable.

Incidentally, am I the only one who is a bit surprised that nibiru has so many more hits than "spiritual energy"?