Regarding Franko...
- Thread starter Titanpoint
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Now why on earth do you ask that Franko. You know you say I'm atheist so I have supernatural free willy powers remember. I can do anything.
Franko said:
An acausal event is not supernatural. It is still natural.
Let's say that we don't have enough information to determine whether or not Determinism is true. In the mean time, we assume that some events are acausal because that's how they appear to us. It is the only possible way to understand how the Universe works (unless you are God of course).
I don't deny the possibility of an underlying determinism, I think I've become an agnostic regarding this topic.
At the micro level, I have random will. Well, my atoms and chemicals in my brain behave in that way.
You said so. You said that she is bounded by Gravity (a Law), so it means that she cannot control random events.
It isn't
Yeah, and you have an idea how it works
But you will refuse to share your knowledge with the scientific community.
Q-S
Ohh Great! In that case the Logical Goddess is acausal. Do you believe now?
Ahhh, I am starting to see, so instead of assuming that there are logical rules, and the universe behaves entirely Deterministically and Objectively as it would appear by ALL AVAILABLE EVIDENCE, we should simply assume that Reality is ultimately magical so we can pretend that there is no God, and no consequences for our actions???
Good Karma for You Darling. (sincerely)
So how does your mind make the “random” into “non-random”? I thought that we BOTH agreed, ALL action is based on Belief? I don’t see where the “random” part fits into the equation? I don’t see the need for the magic of “ true randomness” (acausality)?
There are NO random events. Events only seem random when you do not comprehend the logic which governed (controlled) the event.
I’m more interested in sharing it with YOU, old friend, but you don’t seem to be listening …
Franko said:
No, I don't, because the LG is not acausal, she had an origin (according to you).
Even if determinism were true, acausal events would still exist.
In fact, let's say that determinism is true, we still have acausal events that we cannot link to a sequence of events.
Tell to you Goddess that you just bump a Graviton towards her Omniworldline (temporally
)Ohhh, but I am still waiting to hear that from you
Q
That is called YOU basing your beliefs on a Double Standard.
Why is it acceptable for you to cite Magic as the basis for your beliefs (acausal = magic), yet you are unwilling to accept Acausal explanations for the Religious beliefs of others (like Christians)?
… but you are correct, I do not claim that the LG had a supernatural origin. … at least, no more “supernatural” then your own.
The invisible world of QM not-withstanding, You have provided no evidence for acausal events. You can’t demonstrate ONE single event which is clearly not based on the past, nor based on ANY logical rules. You cannot produce a genuine Alive-Dead Cat, you cannot do magic by will alone, and the reason you cannot do these things is because “acausal” exist no where, except in the minds of deluded A-Theists.
What are you doing any differently than a Christian, Source? You are claiming a magical basis for reality as the foundation for your religion. You have no observable evidence for these beliefs, and you have no consistent logical argument, instead you just tell me I should believe you, because people who are “smarter” than us (“scientist” like that idiot Stimpson [priest of Atheism]) have assured you this is the “One True faith”.
Ahhh, so QM (Atomic decay, vacuum fluctuations), and something that no one witnessed or could have witnessed (according to you) – the beginning of the Universe is your “empirical evidence” for magic “free willy” powers? Why aren’t those same things evidence for God?
Because, you can observe and measure acausal events in the Universe. You can establish an atom's position or speed even though they behave randomly.
They are natural events. We have evidence for it. You can see atomic decay with your own eyes.
Regarding God, you cannot get any evidence of its existence because it would contradict its own definition.
This is something that Physicists still don't know. But everything seems to indicate that they are not related to previous states.
Q-Source said:
Statistics are nice. Be careful what you make of them.
Actuaries make insurance companies rich with longevity projections, but make zero predictions about any specific individual. Yet, will you postulate that a given death is acausal rather than a function (algorithym) of previous events -- karma --which lead exactly to that result?
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
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This is the way science works. If a theory is supported by evidence, it is assumed to be true until such time as new evidence appears to contradict it. This is not the same as religious "faith" or "belief", it is simply the way we navigate the real world. Since we observe that quantum events happen, and we observe no causes for them, and since the way they happen (their distribution in time) fits a random pattern, we have no choice but assume that they are acausal.
The speculation that we might one day discover a cause is irrelevant. After all, we might also discover a proof of their acausality. Or we might discover something entirely different.
Hans
Ahhh, I see … so when Jesus walked on water that wasn’t really “magic” or a “divine miracle”, it was just an ordinary everyday acausal event. The kind of thing that (according to A-Theists) happens ALL the time. In other words, just because every time you have tried to walk on water in the past you have failed, and just because the Laws of Physics prohibit you from actually walking on water doesn’t mean that Jesus couldn’t walk on water.
… because as ANY “right-thinking” A-Theist will tell you it is entirely “SCIENTIFIC” and “RATIONAL” to believe that what happens in the present is NOT based on the past, and besides there are really NO FIXED RULES anyway. Just because walking on water is usually impossible, doesn’t mean that it always is.
I guess that once you adopt a magical belief in “acausal reality” every miracle in the Bible is just as scientific as a belief in “free will” powers or believing coins ALWAYS land TAILs up?
You mean JUST like the magic randomness of Your Quantum mechanics?
So what EXACTLY was your evidence for “free will”? … because THIS seems to contradict your theory …
Atoms obey TLOP.
You are made of Atoms.
YOU OBEY TLOP!
But I thought that you were just saying that you COULDN’t ACTUALLY OBSERVE THESE EVENTS???
This is no different then your “proof” that God doesn’t exist. It is simply an erroneous assumption based on NO INFORMATION.
So in the mean time the “smart”, “rational” individual believes that EVERYTHING is fundamentally magical and non-comprehensible??? The “sane” person believes that the present is NOT based on the past, and that there is NO underlying fixed set of rules?!?!
You are nuts my little friend. You’re gone …
Tlop doesn’t preclude God either, but that doesn’t constitute a Proof of God.
… So I ask you (yet again) This is the way science works. If a theory is supported by evidence, it is assumed to be true until such time as new evidence appears to contradict it.
Atoms obey TLOP.
You are made of Atoms.
YOU OBEY TLOP!
Where is your “new evidence” which contradicts this? Where is the “You” (Soul) making the choices MRC???
hammegk said:
He, he... I can do wonderful things with Statistics.
The purpose of Statistics is not to predict an specific individual's behaviour but to predict many individuals average behaviour.
I think you are mixing "no past history" with "acausal".
Acausal events are also subjected to probabilistic behaviour. For example, Scientists know (by past history) that atomic decay occurs within a probabilistic pattern. However, it does not imply that atomic decay is related with previous states.
Q-S