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Recovered Memories

h t t p s : / / w w w . r e d d i t . c o m /r/atheism/comments/3xw1gn/satanic_temple_leader_doug_mesner_lucien_greaves/
 
Carrot Flower King said:
I do wonder sometimes if it isn't put about by the RCC and the CoE to distract from their inactions in dealing with the well-documented abuse by their priests.
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Funny you should mention that. I just discovered that bishop-accountability.org is promoting recovered memory woo.
 
Collin237 said:
The second article, by itself, does seem like a rational argument. I presented it as contrast to the first one, apparently written by the same Doug Mesner aka Lucien Greaves. In the first article he comes across as incoherent and vindictive, in the manner of people like William Barr, Lindsey Graham, or Mitch McConnell.

Incidentally, his "process" logo does indeed look eerily like a swastika. And he's also on record saying something very ugly about Jews.
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http://zeroequalstwo.net/satanic-temple-leader-being-trolled/
 
Verified statements of such extreme bigotry have been enough to ruin many people's careers, and nobody except wingnuts is complaining. Why is Mesner getting a free pass?

It doesn't take a genius to see that this is a double-bind operation. The "satanists" and the quack therapists are joined at the hip. The original allegation about the FMSF may even be fabricated. Why else would it be coming out now, during the coup?

If they make up an abduction story about Joe Biden, and Mesner's troupe rallies to his defense in the name of "satan", what does the country do then?
 
Collin237 said:
Verified statements of such extreme bigotry have been enough to ruin many people's careers, and nobody except wingnuts is complaining. Why is Mesner getting a free pass?
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Are people not allowed to learn? To grow? To change their minds? The guy who wrote Amazing Grace was in his earlier life one of the scummiest persons imaginably.

It doesn't take a genius to see that this is a double-bind operation. The "satanists" and the quack therapists are joined at the hip. The original allegation about the FMSF may even be fabricated. Why else would it be coming out now, during the coup?
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All those are very interesting questions. Ones that have real world answers that do not depend on convoluted conspiracies.

If they make up an abduction story about Joe Biden, and Mesner's troupe rallies to his defense in the name of "satan", what does the country do then?
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And who are they? I would suppose that, if the "troupe" (whoever that might be) calls upon Satan (or satan) or "satan" for help, people who have a good sense of humour will have a good laugh.

Could you please explain what point you are trying to make?
 
Matthew Best said:
You said he "wrote an article claiming that dissociative identity disorder is a myth, and then staged a debate about it, which looked suspiciously like a sockpuppet show. On another blog, he takes the opposite position, affirming that DID exists." How about you link to those articles, and the debate, because I thought that was what I was going to find when you produced those links. But there was nothing like that.
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Still waiting - this is turning into quite the Gish Gallop, isn't it?
 
Matthew, I can see a big problem with Doug in those two links. If you don't see it, I can't make you.
 
The lovely thing is that the truth doesn't care who recognizes it or denies it. We can follow the information available.

If there is some unsavory truth or ridiculous conspiracy theory about one or both sides of any public debate, it has nothing to do with what is actually true.
 
Cavemonster: If the statement is about the physical world, then obviously there's nothing that cares. But if the statement is about people, people certainly do care about not being lied about!

And in a debate between unsavory and ridiculous allegations, not counting those that are manifestly absurd, finding out the truth is the only way to find who, in reality, is most probably guilty or innocent. I'm shocked that someone on a Skeptic forum would suggest otherwise.

Matthew: When a symbol that's archetypally good is borne by people doing evil, it's justified -- offensive to common sensibilities, perhaps, but justified -- to put an evil spin on it. But the reason it's justified is that people matter and symbols don't.

But when a symbol that's archetypally evil is branded in denouncement against people doing evil, it's horribly f_ed-up to put a good spin on it.

h t t p s : / / w w w . w a s h i n g t o n p o s t . c o m /news/posteverything/wp/2017/08/23/im-a-founder-of-the-satanic-temple-dont-blame-satan-for-white-supremacy/

As if this is a contest between Nazis and Christians??? What about us? The actual targets of the hate, liberal Jews like me, who don't believe that Satan exists, but who are just as terrified by Satan-like imagery for the very real reason that it's used by those who killed millions of us and are waiting for a chance to kill more.

In the Trump era, when far-left and far-right are becoming almost indistinguishable, I won't turn a blind eye to someone who thinks he can play around with right-wing tropes

h t t p s : / / a n n o u n c e m e n t . t h e s a t a n i c t e m p l e . c o m /rrr-campaign41280784

and turns around and acts like he's rational and on the good side of things.
 
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Collin237 said:
Cavemonster: If the statement is about the physical world, then obviously there's nothing that cares. But if the statement is about people, people certainly do care about not being lied about!
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Psychology is a science. The truth does not depend on the character of popular proponents of a particular viewpoint. There are standards of research.


And in a debate between unsavory and ridiculous allegations, not counting those that are manifestly absurd, finding out the truth is the only way to find who, in reality, is most probably guilty or innocent. I'm shocked that someone on a Skeptic forum would suggest otherwise.
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I have no idea what you're saying here. I'm 100% in favor of finding out the truth. Looking at conspiracy theories about popular proponents of a particular viewpoint is not a way to learn about the truth of the claims involved.
 
Cavemonster said:
Psychology is a science. The truth does not depend on the character of popular proponents of a particular viewpoint. There are standards of research.
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The success of a psychological intervention very much depends on the character of the practitioner. If he's inclined toward scientific evidence, he'll probably end up helping the patient. If he's inclined toward woo, he'll probably end up doing the patient enormous harm. And the fact that woo is still accepted in the field of psychology shows that it does not have standards.

Cavemonster said:
Looking at conspiracy theories about popular proponents of a particular viewpoint is not a way to learn about the truth of the claims involved.
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Yes it is, in the hands of responsible investigators. That's how we know about Trump's shenanigans in the first place.
 
But I am a claimant. I'm expressing a concern about Doug Mesner. I haven't even gotten a perfunctory "we'll look into it".
 
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