Recent developments in UFO 'Abductology'

ufology said:
Agreed ... Even though I believe Earth has been visited by alien technology and/or life, the alien abduction scenario is just so bizarre that even I have a hard time with it. I'm not really sure why exactly. I've seen a UFO, so I know they are real. I've interviewed a former RCAF pilot who said he saw a UFO with beings around it that seemed to be taking samples of grain in a field ... and I believed his story. So if the aliens are here taking samples, why would it be so far fetched that they might not just consider us another aspect of the flora and fauna? I haven't heard of any recent accounts. Maybe they've got enough samples.

Some abduction researchers have proposed that the DNA of all these abductees should be examined to see if there are any abnormal similarities that could offer scientific evidence of genetic manipulation. Another researcher claims to have done DNA analysis on "alien hair" But I have no idea what the status of these efforts are.

j.r.
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Your null hypothesis is that there are some alien abduction cases which must be true. You've chosen a null hypothesis which is unfalsifiable, and not critical thinking. You would have to prove EVERY case is caused by something other than alien abduction. It's a typical fallback position for the believer and incorrectly switches the burden of proof.

If you start with the null hypothesis that no alien abduction case is the result of aliens abducting humans, then all you need to falsify it is ONE proven case. Easily falsifiable and keeps the burden of proof exactly where it has to stay, with the person making the claim.
 
You know about what he is talking about, right? DNA assays in a hair sample. So far, so good, right? Looks like science, OK? Oh, what's the provenenace of the sample? The hair is from what is claimed to be one of two female aliens which tried to have sex with a contactee at his very own bed and was allegedly found around the guy's wang (the hair, not the female).

Now, if this bit of UFOlogy is not pseudoscience, what it is? Porn sci-fi comedy?
 
23_Tauri said:
Well, no, because anthropologists have hypothesised that some 'supernatural' experiences experienced and recorded by different peoples across the global and throughout the ages are in fact the same phenomena, but in different cultural settings. Hence the different explanations as to what is happening to them.
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Except that we're not talking about anthropologists, ancestors or the supernatural.

j.r.
 
ufology said:
Except that we're not talking about anthropologists, ancestors or the supernatural.
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Quit dodging. You've been following the conversation right along with the rest of us. You know exactly what 23_Tauri is talking about. You know as well as we do that the only real evidence ufology has to go on is anecdotal. That places it squarely in the same league as other pseudosciences that seek to validate reports of supernatural experiences that also have no material support.

23_Tauri is talking about the objective and scientific anthropological study of supernatural/paranormal reports, and rightly comparing the reports of supernatural experiences with alleged UFO sightings.


Aepervius said:
In our case the default position, the null , is *all* UFO have mundane (even if unknown) terrestrial source.
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I don't know about this. If all we have to go on is unreliable "story evidence," then how can you either prove or disprove your null hypothesis that a given report has a mundane source?

That's why ufology is a pseudoscience. It purports to make reasoned statements about the nature of the physical universe solely on the basis of immaterial, non-falsifiable evidence.
 
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RoboTimbo said:
Your null hypothesis is that there are some alien abduction cases which must be true. You've chosen a null hypothesis which is unfalsifiable, and not critical thinking. You would have to prove EVERY case is caused by something other than alien abduction. It's a typical fallback position for the believer and incorrectly switches the burden of proof.

If you start with the null hypothesis that no alien abduction case is the result of aliens abducting humans, then all you need to falsify it is ONE proven case. Easily falsifiable and keeps the burden of proof exactly where it has to stay, with the person making the claim.
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Null hypotheses are used in scientific experiments under controlled conditions to calculate probabilities based on repetiton of experimentation. Abductions don't fit into this framework and therefore attempting to frame them inside non-applicable science is pseudoscientific. The problem needs to be looked at from a critical thinking point of view that doesn't involve watered down science.

j.r.
 
ufology said:
Except that we're not talking about anthropologists, ancestors or the supernatural.

j.r.
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I'm afraid you've lost me again, ufologist. Aepervius said:

Aepervius said:
Replace Alien abduction by demonic visitation or ghost visitation. Same reasoning : you are making the classic error of dismissing the potential situation in which "of *ALL* being mundane".
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and you replied :
ufologist said:
Actually replacing one subject with another and thinking it wouldn't make any difference on the outcome would be considered really really really bad logic.
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and then I pointed out that is wasn't replacing one subject with another because, with many of these types of visitation experiences there are enough similarities for experts in the field to conclude that we may well be looking at the same thing, over time and between cultures.

If believing you've been abducted by aliens isn't 'supernatural' then what is it?
 
ufology said:
Null hypotheses are used in scientific experiments under controlled conditions to calculate probabilities based on repetiton of experimentation. Abductions don't fit into this framework and therefore attempting to frame them inside non-applicable science is pseudoscientific. The problem needs to be looked at from a critical thinking point of view that doesn't involve watered down science.
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As others and I have already pointed out, the problem with a null hypothesis is not the lack of "controlled conditions." Null hypotheses are used in field study all the time.

The problem with a null hypothesis of UFO sightings is that ufology relies solely on unverified, unfalsifiable stories and little more. That is one of the most unreliable forms of evidence, as well as being unfalsifiable in most cases. Photographic evidence, of course, is falsifiable and every picture ever produced of a UFO can be adequately explained by mundane, terrestrial or astronomical sources, or as deliberate hoaxes.

Your claim that UFOs, abductions, alien sightings, etc. somehow defy science by their own nature is a logical fallacy called a special pleading.
 
23_Tauri said:
and then I pointed out that is wasn't replacing one subject with another because, with many of these types of visitation experiences there are enough similarities for experts in the field to conclude that we may well be looking at the same thing, over time and between cultures. If believing you've been abducted by aliens isn't 'supernatural' then what is it?
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Sorry, but the genetic differences between humans and dogs is only 25% and between humans and chimps 5% ... the deatils are always important and substituting one subject for another to make a comparison that fits any particular bias is really not such a good idea. I will however accept that your analogy holds true in that alien abduction is pretty weird and that such comparison's are easy to jump to. Perhaps they may even be related. We just can't jump to that conclusion first as if it's true.

j.r.
 
ufology said:
Sorry, but the genetic differences between humans and dogs is only 25% and between humans and chimps 5% ... the deatils are always important and substituting one subject for another to make a comparison that fits any particular bias is really not such a good idea. I will however accept that your analogy holds true in that alien abduction is pretty weird and that such comparison's are easy to jump to. Perhaps they may even be related. We just can't jump to that conclusion first as if it's true.

j.r.
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:boggled:
 
John Albert said:
Non sequitur: irrelevant conclusion.

23_Tauri already explained the validity of the relationship between UFO sightings and other accounts of the supernatural/paranormal. Your DNA argument is a red herring, akin to the "Chewbacca Defense" from South Park.
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Your "Chewbacca Defense" is a "red, red ... red herring, Chewie Chewie Chewbacca defense" with a tripple redundant irrellevant conclusion ... and dead batteries.

j.r.
 
ufology said:
Your "Chewbacca Defense" is a "red, red ... red herring, Chewie Chewie Chewbacca defense" with a tripple redundant irrellevant conclusion ... and dead batteries.
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It's the same thing, except the South Park bit was funny.


23_Tauri said:
I am reaching the point where I might stab myself with my Non-secateurs™ at any moment...

(see Stray Cat's Poster Collection #70 for further info if you don't know what these are)

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7361637#post7361637
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That's awesome!
 
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John Albert said:
That's awesome!
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I think his Non-secateurs were his funniest for a while.

I keep my pair in the top drawer, so when it all gets to much on here I can stab myself to ensure I'm still in my physical body.
 
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ufology said:
. Another researcher claims to have done DNA analysis on "alien hair" But I have no idea what the status of these efforts are.
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dafydd said:
I have an idea.
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The story behind that one is pretty hilarious. Apparently the guy who had the "contact" alleged that 2 female aliens woke him out of his bed and forced him to have sex with them, and one of their blonde hairs was found wrapped around his penis.

This video might contain NSFW dialogue.



Apparently, his wife bought the tale and it got him on TV, so I guess it's all good.
 
John Albert said:
The story behind that one is pretty hilarious. Apparently the guy who had the "contact" alleged that 2 female aliens woke him out of his bed and forced him to have sex with them, and one of their blonde hairs was found wrapped around his penis.

This video might contain NSFW dialogue.



Apparently, his wife bought the tale and it got him on TV, so I guess it's all good.
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I can see a lot of guys trying the "alien sex" excuse if their wife caught them with a blone hair wrapped around their penis ... man what next ... maybe they can get the space-babes to appear with him and his wife on Dr. Phil or some reality show.

j.r.
 
I've only skimmed this thread. Does any one have data concerning the numbers of abduction claims with a time-line?
Is it more every year? Or has it peaked and in decline?

The likelihood of actual abduction (one would think) should be increasing. Unless the aliens are time travelers.
 
ufology said:
I can see a lot of guys trying the "alien sex" excuse if their wife caught them with a blone hair wrapped around their penis ... man what next ... maybe they can get the space-babes to appear with him and his wife on Dr. Phil or some reality show.

j.r.
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Pretty silly, isn't it? You'll have to argue with Rramjet about it though. He fell for the story quicker than the wife.
 
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