Rebecca Zahau: murder or suicide?

[slingblade]

Neither of the OP's linked articles mentioned how her hands were "bound." Was it with rope? Cable ties? Handcuffs? Some of those are way more plausibly self-secured than others.

Quite true. Simply hearing that someone's hands were bound doesn't tell us much of anything.

I would say that a forensic analyst could tell a great deal more about it. I'm reminded of reading Sherlock Holmes in childhood...a story in which he could deduce a visitor to the flat had no valet. The man didn't know how Holmes could tell.

Simple: the man was rather portly, and his shoelaces were tied to the near side, indicating he'd leaned around his own belly to tie the things. A valet would have centered the laces, and a man with a valet would not have tied his own shoes.

I likewise imagine that for many types of binding material, it would be easier to tell when someone had tightened the bonds themselves--if the knots (if any knots) ended up dead center, it probably wasn't them doing it. For other things, it might be impossible to say for certain, such as with handcuffs.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Neither of the OP's linked articles mentioned how her hands were "bound." Was it with rope? Cable ties? Handcuffs? Some of those are way more plausibly self-secured than others.

"Shacknai's brother, who was staying at the mansion as a houseguest, called 911 after he discovered Zahau hanging from the balcony. When police arrived they found Zahau's naked body on the lawn. Her mouth was gagged with a T-shirt and her hands were tied behind her back with red rope, secured by a slip knot. Her feet were also bound."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/coronado-m...ed-unconscious/story?id=14955832#.TwNRYjWXTwM

 

[Professor Yaffle]

I would think a slip knot would be a fairly easy way to secure your own hands. Make the knot, put your hands in the loop, then tighten it with your teeth.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

I would think a slip knot would be a fairly easy way to secure your own hands. Make the knot, put your hands in the loop, then tighten it with your teeth.

Yes, but some guy with a PhD says the case has "hallmarks of a ritualistic killing."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/rebecca-za...killing-expert/story?id=14463695#.TwNVUzWXTwN

 

[DrDave]

Yes, but some guy with a PhD says the case has "hallmarks of a ritualistic killing."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/rebecca-za...killing-expert/story?id=14463695#.TwNVUzWXTwN

I'm some guy with a PhD and I say it doesn't

 

[kedo1981]

Looks like a case for CSI KEDO
My two cents
The brother tried to off the kid to cover up sexual abuse of said child.
(brothers of rich guys are always evil)
The hot Asian girl friend figured it out
He killed her

 

[Draca]

Yes, but some guy with a PhD says the case has "hallmarks of a ritualistic killing."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/rebecca-za...killing-expert/story?id=14463695#.TwNVUzWXTwN

I've heard others use similar words - it was a murder of a ritualistic nature.

It's a good reason to look at this case closer. Not that it is impossible, but there have been so many wrongful convictions that have featured mentions of rites, rituals and satanic killings (examples: West Memphis Three, Amanda Knox, McMartin Satanic Daycare) that it should make a set off skeptic bells.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

I'm some guy with a PhD and I say it doesn't

What do you think really happened?

 

[slingblade]

I would think a slip knot would be a fairly easy way to secure your own hands. Make the knot, put your hands in the loop, then tighten it with your teeth.

Okay...but in that case, when do you put the gag in your mouth...and how?

 

[commandlinegamer]

If this was murder then presumably the victim was either drugged or put up a fight, for which there might be some evidence.

 

[Southwind17]

I would think a slip knot would be a fairly easy way to secure your own hands. Make the knot, put your hands in the loop, then tighten it with your teeth.

Behind your back?!

Okay...but in that case, when do you put the gag in your mouth...and how?

But more importantly, why?!

If this was murder then presumably the victim was either drugged or put up a fight, for which there might be some evidence.

There were four separate blunt force trauma injuries to the top of the skull, but no lacerations.

Also, there was no separation of the cervical vertebra and/or detachment of the skull; typically evident in drop hanging, which seems to be the case here.

p.s. just watched the Dr Phil episode featuring this case.

 

[jiggeryqua]

If someone were intent on suicide then there are surely ways they could secure their own hands (even behind their back) so that they couldn't back out once they'd dropped. I can even accept that they might gag themselves (easily done before securing the hands and not that implausible after), so that they couldn't cry out and alert someone who might save them from themselves.

But why secure your own feet? Because it's easy? Which is why I'm assuming nobody's questioned it..."Oh yeah, you could do that, that's easy". But why? If anything, the frantic kicking of your feet and swinging of your legs would hasten the end?

 

[Southwind17]

If someone were intent on suicide then there are surely ways they could secure their own hands (even behind their back) so that they couldn't back out once they'd dropped. I can even accept that they might gag themselves (easily done before securing the hands and not that implausible after), so that they couldn't cry out and alert someone who might save them from themselves.

But why secure your own feet? Because it's easy? Which is why I'm assuming nobody's questioned it..."Oh yeah, you could do that, that's easy". But why? If anything, the frantic kicking of your feet and swinging of your legs would hasten the end?

... and the blunt force trauma to the head?!

 

[leftysergeant]

... and the blunt force trauma to the head?!

Only thing I can think of that would cause blunt force trauma without lacerations would be a fist, probably by punching her in the top of the head as she slept.

The lack of separation of skull and vertebrae suggests that she was lowered rather than dropped off the balacony.

 

[Beerina]

This woman was the babysitter of the 6 year old who supposedly had a heart attack and tumbled down the stairs, dying.

Would she feel that much remorse that she'd kill herself? Should she have been watching the kid every second just in case he has heart failure in a dangerous place?

 

[wasapi]

Only thing I can think of that would cause blunt force trauma without lacerations would be a fist, probably by punching her in the top of the head as she slept.

The lack of separation of skull and vertebrae suggests that she was lowered rather than dropped off the balacony.

Interesting. I tried to follow this story for awhile because I'm familiar with the area that it took place, and it also never made sense that she took her own life. I don't know if the case involves someone hiding something, or if money was involved to keep it listed as a suicide, but something just doesn't seem logical.

As I recall, her family had hired an independent investigation, but I have not read about the findings, if they are now complete.

 

[lane99]

This woman was the babysitter of the 6 year old who supposedly had a heart attack and tumbled down the stairs, dying.

Would she feel that much remorse that she'd kill herself? Should she have been watching the kid every second just in case he has heart failure in a dangerous place?

I think the heart attack was supposed to have come AFTER the fall, no? As a result of the injuries sustained in the fall. To say nothing of the apparent report that at least one doctor felt the boy, possibly, had been suffocated BEFORE the fall.

At any rate, if we assume the death was nothing but a tragic accident, it makes, at a bare minimum, at least as much sense as a motive for suicide as it does as a motive for murder.

 

[jiggeryqua]

... and the blunt force trauma to the head?!

Obviously, having arranged to tighten the bonds on your own wrists with your teeth, and then biting the prepared t-shirt, throwing your head back, gulping and thus creating the impression you'd been gagged, it's simplicity itself to rush headlong at the wall a number of times before slipping your now battered head through one of the two nooses you can see. I say 'headlong', I'm not sure that adequately describes the motion of someone who first bound their own ankles. That said, perhaps the blunt force trauma was a result of trying to 'thread the needle' of inserting neck in noose while effectively hobbled. Nothing suspicious about that at all.

 

[stilicho]

What an utterly bizarre story. Not satisfied with the results of the original autopsy, the family of the victim paid for her body to be exhumed, a second autopsy, and finally an appearance on the Dr Phil show with the "conclusive results".

"I have some questions which I shall keep in mind," said Wecht. "But I want to make it clear that I'm not undertaking this with preconceived conclusions."

(Source: http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/10/rebecca-zahau-second-autopsy-performed )

Riiiight. You're being paid by the family who thinks the original autopsy missed something but you don't have any preconceptions. I call shenanigans.

I'm truly surprised they didn't perform the second autopsy "live" (excuse the pun) on Dr Phil's entertainorium.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Obviously, having arranged to tighten the bonds on your own wrists with your teeth, and then biting the prepared t-shirt, throwing your head back, gulping and thus creating the impression you'd been gagged, it's simplicity itself to rush headlong at the wall a number of times before slipping your now battered head through one of the two nooses you can see. I say 'headlong', I'm not sure that adequately describes the motion of someone who first bound their own ankles. That said, perhaps the blunt force trauma was a result of trying to 'thread the needle' of inserting neck in noose while effectively hobbled. Nothing suspicious about that at all.

What do you think really happened?