Real Laser Gun?

Sure it could be. Several different projects to build laser weapons exist precisely because lasers could potentially be much more effective than bullets in certain situations.

I think the main advantage of lasers over any kind of kinetic weapon is its (extremely) superior speed. Once you are to shoot down jet planes, ballistic rockets, not to mention satellites, speed becomes a priority over practically everything else. Even a laser beam must be deflection aimed to hit a satellite or an intercontinental ballistic missile, but, unlike a kinetic projectile, it will never have a problem catching up with its target.

Hans
 
I think the main advantage of lasers over any kind of kinetic weapon is its (extremely) superior speed. Once you are to shoot down jet planes, ballistic rockets, not to mention satellites, speed becomes a priority over practically everything else. Even a laser beam must be deflection aimed to hit a satellite or an intercontinental ballistic missile, but, unlike a kinetic projectile, it will never have a problem catching up with its target.

Hans

I'd throw in accuracy as well. You know that where ever your crosshairs are is where the beam will hit (for the most part). Things that affect kinetic weapons (sucha as windage, elevation, etc) just aren't a factor (or are much less of a factor) for lasers. Of course, a lot of the accuracy is related to speed (a travel time of .001 seconds means gravity doesn't affect it a whole lot ;)).
 
If you want to check out high power lasers, check out the USAF Advanced Tactical Laser (ATL). There is also the HELLADS and JHIPSL programs. These lasers are indeed very powerful and can knock out many things 9and are quite lethal) but they are large (for instance, the entire system would fill the forward bomb bay on a B-1. There are some ground applications (Black Dart and Area RAM Defense).
 
I would suspect that they don't go off and hurt somebody very often.

I've owned them for 40 years. Never had a gas-related injury. In the mean time I sure have cut myself, burned myself, given myself head injuries, mild firearm injury (blown ear drum), zapped my self with 220v AC, had a car fall off the jack onto me... But never had a compressed gas problem.

I have not heard of a bad accident in a research laboratory involving a compressed gas cylinder. I have seen some horrifying things, e.g. a cylinder with a regulator attached on a trolley - i.e. if the cylinder falls over and the regulator breaks the thread of the seal you have 2 deadly projectiles (I saw one blighter moving an oxygen cylinder with reg. attached across the concourse at Frankfurt International airport once also! My bad German was enough to deter him). In the hotel trade, where compressed CO2 and N2 is used as beer gas quite extensively, there are apparently a lot of injuries annually and occasional fatalities.

Sorry to divert thread.
 
I would suspect that they don't go off and hurt somebody very often.

I've owned them for 40 years. Never had a gas-related injury. In the mean time I sure have cut myself, burned myself, given myself head injuries, mild firearm injury (blown ear drum), zapped my self with 220v AC, had a car fall off the jack onto me... But never had a compressed gas problem.

Scariest compressed gas problem I've read about:
http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=4488

Bottle of MAPP gas on a soldering torch, neck separates from the bottle while in use and the guy is engulfed in a fireball.

The scary part was that he was using the product, not doing anything stupid or clumsy. Just using it.
 
Until someone invents a pocket-sized fusion reactor laser weapons will not be light infantry weapons. Power conversion of lasers is very very very low.

That's exactly what I just said.

Tactical laser weapons were developed some time ago. I don't know how much they are actually used, though. Maybe someone here has more information?

They're not used at all. There are several in various stages of development, but none have got that far past proof of concept.

Airborne Laser (anti-ICBM) - proven the idea can work, but is impractical for actual use and may not get any more funding.
Advanced Tactical Laser (air to ground attack) - proof of concept prototype.
Tactical High Energy Laser (anti-missile/shell) - successfully tested but project cancelled.
HELLADS (anti-missile/shell) - follow-on from the THEL project using a different kind of laser that should be easier to get down to size. Apparently on target, but probably a long way from being ready for deployment.

I had also read about a system that could be used to fight off swarms of small boats and the like, but I think that may have just been speculation about possible uses for the THEL rather than a separate project. I don't know of any projects that have got past the "Pretty much works, but isn't practical yet" stage.

Not really. If you have enough power to penetrate (for example) 2 inches of steel, then you're going to burn through a lot of smoke quickly and without much effect. Smoke will make the beam visible, which could be a problem, and it will degrade the effectiveness some, but if there's enough smoke to seriously degrade the effectiveness of a weapons-category laser, then you aren't going to be ablet o see the target to hit it with a bullet, either.

No, he's right that smoke, or even just fog, is a big problem. I think you're seriously underestimating the amount of attenuation the laser beam will experience. With bullets, and importantly things like mortars and artillery which aren't expected to have line of sight in the first place, visibility isn't necessarily a huge problem - shoot in about the right direction and it will have at least some effect. The trouble with lasers is that they don't just become inaccurate, they end up having no effect at all.

There's a somewhat interesting discussion of the problems with lasers here. That site is actually about Star Wars vs. Star Trek, but it makes the point that both are almost completely lacking in indirect fire weapons. Lasers sound cool, and look cool in films although rather less so in real life, but they will never replace all conventional weapons because there are some things they just can't do.

I think I agree with this, although rail guns have their issues as well, so I'm not sure they'll be first.

Rail guns ultimately have many of the same problems as lasers - direct fire only, large size, high power, and so on. They don't have the attenuation problem, but add in the problems you mention of high wear and tear, as well as still requiring ammunition.

Rail guns may end up seeing practical use, but I don't think they'll be the "next step" any more than lasers will - they both have niche use but can't replace most conventional weapons any time soon.
 
That's exactly what I just said.



They're not used at all. There are several in various stages of development, but none have got that far past proof of concept.

Airborne Laser (anti-ICBM) - proven the idea can work, but is impractical for actual use and may not get any more funding.
Advanced Tactical Laser (air to ground attack) - proof of concept prototype.
Tactical High Energy Laser (anti-missile/shell) - successfully tested but project cancelled.
HELLADS (anti-missile/shell) - follow-on from the THEL project using a different kind of laser that should be easier to get down to size. Apparently on target, but probably a long way from being ready for deployment.

You forgot the laser they used to bring down the WTC. :duck::flamed::boxedin:
 
The rail gun could be used to launch aircraft from an aircraft carrier instead of using a steam catapult. Not sure why it is not done now. Apart from the fact that you need to build a new carrier.

Edit. This video shows one in operation

LAKEHURST, N.J. (Dec. 18, 2010) The Navy launches the first aircraft, an F/A-18E Super Hornet, from the Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) at Naval Air Systems Command, Lakehurst, N.J. The Navy has used steam catapults for more than 50 years to launch aircraft from aircraft carriers. EMALS is a complete carrier-based launch system designed for Gerald R. Ford (CVN 78) and future Ford-class carriers. Newer, heavier and faster aircraft will result in launch energy requirements approaching the limits of the steam catapult, increasing maintenance on the system. The system's technology allows for a smooth acceleration at both high and low speeds, increasing the carrier's ability to launch aircraft in support of the warfighter. EMALS will provide the capability for launching all current and future carrier air wing platforms from lightweight unmanned aerial vehicles to heavy strike fighters. The first ship components are on schedule to be delivered to CVN 78 in 2011. (U.S. Navy video/Released)
 
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One of our research scientists achieved a rather unwelcome fame at the local emergency room after he disabled the safety on an industrial cutting laser and put his arm in front of the beam. "But it was only a 2 watt laser" should probably go down in someone's famous last words book.

Wait... wait... I'm getting... Fuzzy
A vision... Clear now. Clearer...

I see someone with an "L"...

...you have dead relatives that died in a rocking chair on the back porch, while blasting mosquitoes with laser rifles.

I'd be so embarrassed. :)
 
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I have had a lot of fun repairing various types of lasers over the years. a 20 watt YAG, UV, ruby, HeNe, etc. One huge system was intermittently failing, and it took me 3 months to finally get the IR 50 KW pulsed system stable again. Bad solder connection in one of 6 rack mounted pieces of equipment.

The ruby laser was the most interesting though. It was an old Apollo dual pulse supply with a 5/8" x about 8" ruby rod, excited by a very funky helical flash tube. It used a 12,000 volt supply, huge 12 ufd caps as I remember, with hydrogen thyratrons for switching*. The flash tube broke, and the water cooling system needed to be rebuilt. I found a guy in Florida who had the only extant schematics and a spare flash tube for it. He charged an arm and a leg for the prints, but I finally got it all repaired.

Once all repairs were done, and some other issues were repaired in the 6 foot 500 lb. rack mount supply, I could not get it to lase. I found a most interesting character on the internet by the name of Dick Anderson. He is the most knowledgeable guy I have ever met where lasers are concerned.

Dick just happened to have a similar supply, so I shipped him the optical bench with the flash tube assy, and he sent me a video of the thing pulsing and digging a hole in a quarter. It is really a good thing I didn't get it to lase, because it was aimed at my white refrigerator in my shop, and it could have reflected into my eyes.

It turned out that the old tube was happy with 11,000 volts and by using a current transformer, we discovered that it took more voltage to equal the joules needed to lase with the new lamp, just 200 volts more and the thing was lasing.

A good laser dump, I discovered later, was a stack of double edge old fashioned razor blades.

*The thyratrons switched the mercury vapor devices which handled the huge laser currents.
 
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Lasers are all SF-like and give us nerds a hardon (figuratively speaking... well, mostly;)) but IMHO they'll always be niche. For more general purpose warfare we'll be stuck with kinetic penetrators for a long time. Rail-guns are much more likely to be the next step in warfare than lasers.

BAE have already produced railgun prototypes for the the Office of Naval Research. Compressing those down to a hand weapon has the same power source issues as a laser, and it isn't going to be hard to see where the shot came from when it sets the air alight.

Short video of one being fired here:

Record Breaking Rail Gun
 
The rail gun could be used to launch aircraft from an aircraft carrier instead of using a steam catapult. Not sure why it is not done now. Apart from the fact that you need to build a new carrier.
One reason it hasn't been used so far is that the steam ones were invented first and the electromagnetic ones are more recent. (Also, I'm not totally sure that the EMALS qualifies as a rail gun; "electromagnetic" could include various mechanisms.) Now that EMALS has been invented, it can be either built in to a new ship or used to replace the steam system on a ship that's already running. (Just imagine the Top Gun intro scene without the steam over the deck, though!)

Some of the info I've read about the reasons to switch catapult systems aren't right, though. It's said that future airplanes call for more power because they're heavier, but the next couple of planes that are planned to be launched with catapults, F-35C and a hypothetical derivative of X-47B, are lighter than a loaded F-14, many of which were launched with steam catapults for decades.

Anyway, having now mentioned F-35C, I must also point out a laser-weapon-related concept related more to versions A and B of F-35. Behind the cockpit, version B has a fan which blows air down (when the doors above and below are open) so it can do this:



That fan's power source is the central shaft of the engine, which is extended forward from the front of the engine and attached to the fan by gears and a clutch, since the fan is straight ahead of the engine. (Versions A and C of the plane just have a fuel tank where B's fan is and a non-extended engine shaft.) If you kept the extended engine shaft but didn't put in the fan or fuel tank, you'd have a space where some other kind of equipment could be put, and a 20MW power source right behind it, to which you could connect, for example, an electric generator.

There was a rumor that the Air Force had considered putting a laser system there. But, as interesting as it is, it apparently either wasn't for real or has been dropped. The available energy is enough, but the space must not have been enough for the equipment that would be needed for conversion of that energy into a laser beam. (Actual airborne laser systems at a power level like this are carried on things like a 747.) Wikipedia's page on F-35 mentions it once, but all three of the reference links are dead links now.

* * *

A major problem with laser weapons is the rate of fire. Yes, they've been known to destroy test missiles, but in the time that you have to keep the beam on the target to do that, a missile system could have launched several missiles at other targets, and a CIWS gun could have fired hundreds of bullets and switched targets a few times.
 

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Actual airborne laser systems at a power level like this are carried on things like a 747.

Not necessarily. As mentioned above, the Airborne Laser is on a 747 and designed to take down ICBMs, but the MTHEL and HELLADS successor are designed to fit on a regular fighter jet or jeep.

A major problem with laser weapons is the rate of fire. Yes, they've been known to destroy test missiles, but in the time that you have to keep the beam on the target to do that, a missile system could have launched several missiles at other targets, and a CIWS gun could have fired hundreds of bullets and switched targets a few times.

Again, that's the case for the rather large Airborne Laser. The smaller ones are designed with precisely this in mind, and have already demonstrated the ability to shoot down multiple mortar shells in a single salvo.
 
Smoke...and mirrors, presumably?

Mirrors not so much actually. No mirror is perfectly reflective, so the amount of power being dumped into it will generally vaporise it, or at least damage to the point of no longer being an effective mirror, before it can reflect any significant amount. You could make the laser slightly less effective, but bear in mind that the idea is to have mass produced laser-jeeps as part of a regular army. The extra cost and loss in performance from gluing mirrors to all your missiles and artillery shells is likely to be rather less than the cost of sending an extra jeep.
 

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