Real İslam is only in Quran

[Emre_1974tr]

Hello dear Jigsaw.

Quran never say "flat". This is wrong translation.

"30- He made the earth egg-shaped.
79-The Snatchers, 30

The Arabic word “dahw” means rotundity like that of the ostrich’s egg. The above verse was also interpreted to refer to the shaping of the earth in the form of an ostrich egg. Prof. Dr. Suleyman Atefl, former head of Religious Affairs in Turkey, gives the following definition of the word, based on the famous Arabic dictionary Lisan u’l Arab: “The word ‘dahw’ means to spread out, giving (something) a round shape.” The word “dahw” had also been defined as a game played with walnuts. Derived from the same stem, the word “medahi” referred to round stones. Despite the meaning of rotundity concealed in words derived from the word “dahw” there have been translators for whom a spherical earth was difficult to conceive, who had to translate it as “to spread out.” The actual shape of the earth does have the shape of an ostrich egg. Thus the shape of the earth is spheroid with depressions at the poles. The exact figure of the earth which had posed a problem throughout history was established by the Quran.

Even the books written a few centuries after the descent of the Quran likened the shape of the earth to a tray. Beliefs according to which the earth rested on the horns of an ox or was supported by a fish reigned over mentalities in the Arabic peninsula and many believed that earthquakes occurred when the fish down below waved its tail. The Prophet had no ocean-going ship to cross the earth from one extremity to the other, that would have supplied him with evidence proving the spheroid shape of the earth, nor had he a spacecraft from which he could have had an overall view of our world that would have provided him a photographic image of it, as he was not equipped with a camera. Our knowledge of the sphericity of the earth, which seems to us as an established fact, was then beyond the comprehension and imagination of the majority. Therefore, the Quran’s statement to this effect failed to be grasped. Men believed that the verse referred to the plenitude of the earth, ignoring the sense of rotundity.

Thus, at a time when most of the people believed in the shape of earth’s figure as a tray supported by an ox or fish, the Quran had beautifully described its actual shape. The fact that ostriches abounded in the Arabian Peninsula at the time must have permitted those who inquired into this mystery to hold an ostrich egg in their hands and examine it. The geoidal form is a gentle indication of this. The subtlety of the Quran’s expressions provides men with evidence.

174- O people! Verily there has come to you an infallible proof from your Lord. We have sent unto you a manifest light.
4-The Women, 174"

(From Quran Miracles Site)

Regards.

 

[Jigsaw_Psyche]

Hello dear Jigsaw.

Quran never say "flat". This is wrong translation.

"30- He made the earth egg-shaped.
79-The Snatchers, 30

The Arabic word “dahw” means rotundity like that of the ostrich’s egg. The above verse was also interpreted to refer to the shaping of the earth in the form of an ostrich egg. Prof. Dr. Suleyman Atefl, former head of Religious Affairs in Turkey, gives the following definition of the word, based on the famous Arabic dictionary Lisan u’l Arab: “The word ‘dahw’ means to spread out, giving (something) a round shape.” The word “dahw” had also been defined as a game played with walnuts. Derived from the same stem, the word “medahi” referred to round stones. Despite the meaning of rotundity concealed in words derived from the word “dahw” there have been translators for whom a spherical earth was difficult to conceive, who had to translate it as “to spread out.” The actual shape of the earth does have the shape of an ostrich egg. Thus the shape of the earth is spheroid with depressions at the poles. The exact figure of the earth which had posed a problem throughout history was established by the Quran.

Even the books written a few centuries after the descent of the Quran likened the shape of the earth to a tray. Beliefs according to which the earth rested on the horns of an ox or was supported by a fish reigned over mentalities in the Arabic peninsula and many believed that earthquakes occurred when the fish down below waved its tail. The Prophet had no ocean-going ship to cross the earth from one extremity to the other, that would have supplied him with evidence proving the spheroid shape of the earth, nor had he a spacecraft from which he could have had an overall view of our world that would have provided him a photographic image of it, as he was not equipped with a camera. Our knowledge of the sphericity of the earth, which seems to us as an established fact, was then beyond the comprehension and imagination of the majority. Therefore, the Quran’s statement to this effect failed to be grasped. Men believed that the verse referred to the plenitude of the earth, ignoring the sense of rotundity.

Thus, at a time when most of the people believed in the shape of earth’s figure as a tray supported by an ox or fish, the Quran had beautifully described its actual shape. The fact that ostriches abounded in the Arabian Peninsula at the time must have permitted those who inquired into this mystery to hold an ostrich egg in their hands and examine it. The geoidal form is a gentle indication of this. The subtlety of the Quran’s expressions provides men with evidence.

174- O people! Verily there has come to you an infallible proof from your Lord. We have sent unto you a manifest light.
4-The Women, 174"

(From Quran Miracles Site)

Regards.

Thanks for your really quick reply!

I have addressed the arabic (as well as provided translations for those who do not speak/read arabic). What is wrong with my arabic translation? It was from Lane's Lexicon of Quranic words and phrases.

So you say dahaha means egg-shaped?

Lets have a think about this. The only similarity that dahaha and duhiya have, is that they both come from the root word dahawa. duhiya is a noun and dahaha is a verb.

duhiya is also not a root word, thus dahaha cannot be derived from it in any way.



Now, onto the word you claim dahaha is based on (duhiya). I note you quote lisan-al arab

Dr. Suleyman Atefl, former head of Religious Affairs in Turkey, gives the following definition of the word, based on the famous Arabic dictionary Lisan u’l Arab: “The word ‘dahw’ means to spread out, giving (something) a round shape.

Note the phrase "based on" there? Lets have a look at what Lisan-Al- Arab actually says:

الأُدْحِيُّ و الإدْحِيُّ و الأُدْحِيَّة و الإدْحِيَّة و الأُدْحُوّة مَبِيض النعام في الرمل , وزنه أُفْعُول من ذلك , لأَن النعامة تَدْحُوه برِجْلها ثم تَبِيض فيه وليس للنعام عُشٌّ . و مَدْحَى النعام : موضع بيضها , و أُدْحِيُّها موضعها الذي تُفَرِّخ فيه .ِ


Translation: "Al-udhy, Al-idhy, Al-udhiyya, Al-idhiyya, Al-udhuwwa:

The place in sand where an ostrich lays its egg. That's because the ostrich spreads out the earth with its feet then lays its eggs there, an ostrich doesn't have a nest."

As to the meaning of dahaha, lets have a look at some arabic dictionaries:

(دَحَا): الله الأرضَ
(يَدْحُوهَا وَيَدْحَاهَا دَحْواً) بَسَطَها


Translation: "Allah daha the Earth: He spread it out."

دَحَا الشيءَ: بسطه ووسعه. يقال: دحا اللهُ الأَر

translation: "To daha something: means to spread it out. For example: Allah daha the Earth."

الدَّحْوُ البَسْطُ . دَحَا الأَرضَ يَدْحُوها دَحْواً بَسَطَها . وقال الفراء في قوله والأَرض بعد ذلك دَحاها قال : بَسَطَها ; قال شمر : وأَنشدتني أَعرابية : الحمدُ لله الذي أَطاقَا

بَنَى السماءَ فَوْقَنا طِباقَا

ثم دَحا الأَرضَ فما أَضاقا

قال شمر : وفسرته فقالت دَحَا الأَرضَ أَوْسَعَها ; وأَنشد ابن بري لزيد بن عمرو بن نُفَيْل : دَحَاها , فلما رآها اسْتَوَتْ

على الماء , أَرْسَى عليها الجِبالا

و دَحَيْتُ الشيءَ أَدْحاهُ دَحْياً بَسَطْته , لغة في دَحَوْتُه ; حكاها اللحياني . وفي حديث عليّ وصلاتهِ , اللهم دَاحِيَ المَدْحُوَّاتِ يعني باسِطَ الأَرَضِينَ ومُوَسِّعَها , ويروى ; دَاحِيَ المَدْحِيَّاتِ . و الدَّحْوُ البَسْطُ . يقال : دَحَا يَدْحُو و يَدْحَى أَي بَسَطَ ووسع



translation: "To daha the earth: means to spread it out." (followed by some poetry to give definitive proof as to the meaning of dahaha)

Lastly, the earth is not flat, egg-shaped or round. Its an oblate spheroid; it cannot be egg-shaped.




Conclusion:
1. I have shown from authentic Islamic sources (on Classical arabic) that daha does actually mean spread out.

2. I have correctly quoted Lisan Al Arab; of which your article gives a "based on" translation of what is written. The source (Lisan Al Arab) contradicts your article, and confirms what the other dictionaries are saying regarding daha.

3. duhiya actually means the place where an ostrich lays her egg and not egg-shaped as your article says.

4. The Earth is not egg-shaped or flat, so the Quran is still wrong.



I guess my question still stands. How can we trust the Quran if it has such an obvious error in it? It clearly says the earth is flat! You need to address your Islamic sources ( I have provided above) in order to derive a different meaning.


Thanks and peace be with you

-JP

 

[Emre_1974tr]

Dear Jigsaw;

You are wrong. World is not perfect sphere, not like a soccer ball. World is a GEOIDAL.

So "like egg" is best data "in all ages". An egg is like a sphere, but geoidal sphere.

Look at an "ostrich egg". This is Quran Miracle.

Wrong translations giving you wrong datas. Example according to Quran we haven't got "souls". But you read wrong translations and you are thinking to "we have got soul-ghost."But This is wrong too. Soul beliving is a pagan beliving. Like monks, saints, dervishes, reencarnation and other pagan belivings. According to Quran we will be in paradise or hell "with bodies" only again(at another world).

Regards.

 

[Jigsaw_Psyche]

Dear Jigsaw;

You are wrong. World is not perfect sphere, not like a soccer ball. World is a GEOIDAL.

I never said the earth was a "perfect sphere". In fact I said it wasn't round. It is closest to an oblate spheroid. Here, from Wiki:

The Earth's shape is very close to an oblate spheroid—a rounded shape with a bulge around the equator—although the precise shape (the geoid) varies from this by up to 100 metres (327 ft).

So although the 'shape' of the earth is classified a 'geoid' it is not denotive of a shape - much less an egg-shape. The earth, as stated above, is closest to an oblate spheroid (like a squashed sphere). It cannot be classified as exactly this or that because it is not a uniform shape. But again, as stated above, oblate spheroid is the closest.

You are thinking of oblate ellipsoid.

So "like egg" is best data "in all ages". An egg is like a sphere, but geoidal sphere.

Look at an "ostrich egg". This is Quran Miracle.

I've already shown you that daha does not mean egg shaped, and neither does duhiya. neither mean egg-shaped.

Wrong translations giving you wrong datas.

I'm not dealing with a translation. I am dealing with the arabic here. This is the original language of the Quran. According to Muslims, uncorrupted and uncorruptable..

Can you address the arabic as I have? If not, then I have to accept you have no answer. I have quoted authentic arabic sources for you (as well as the arabic) please address it.

Example according to Quran we haven't got "souls". But you read wrong translations and you are thinking to "we have got soul-ghost."But This is wrong too. Soul beliving is a pagan beliving. Like monks, saints, dervishes, reencarnation and other pagan belivings. According to Quran we will be in paradise or hell "with bodies" only again(at another world).

Regards.

Your last point is a red herring and is not relevant to the conversation.

I again state that the Quran says the earth is "spread out" (ie. flat). Why does it say this? Remember, I am using the arabic, not a translation.


Thanks and peace

-JP

 

[Emre_1974tr]

Dear friend, ask this an Arab.

He-she will show you what is dahw. My atheist friends look at a lot of dictionaries and they belive to "Quran saying world has hot a egg shape" now.

And they are "hard non-belivers" .

According Quran world has got ostrich's egg form.

And look at this second:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"DIAMETERS OF THE EARTH AND SPACE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.quranmiracles.com/articles.asp?id=41

(From Quran Miracles site)


Regards.

Edited for breach of rule 4, and link added to article. In the future, either only publish excerpts (giving credit) or if you wish to use the entire article, post a link as I did above.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jmercer

 

[Jigsaw_Psyche]

Dear friend, ask this an Arab.

Oh okay so you don't know? That is fine thank you for trying anyway.

He-she will show you what is dahw. My atheist friends look at a lot of dictionaries and they belive to "Quran saying world has hot a egg shape" now.

Yes I have asked many arabs and classical arabic speakers; both Muslim and non-Muslims and they all agree that these translations that I have provided to you are the correct ones.

As I have stated, daha means spread out. Allah spread out this earth during creation. ie. it is flat.

But anyway.

And they are "hard non-belivers" .

Atheists are? I am not an atheist. But no, Atheists, as well as I do, require solid evidence in order to believe. No evidence, no belief, you know?

According Quran world has got ostrich's egg form.

I've shown you this is not the case.

And look at this second:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"DIAMETERS OF THE EARTH AND SPACE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.quranmiracles.com/articles.asp?id=41

(From Quran Miracles site)


Regards.

Thank you for this article, however it is not what we are discussing in this thread at this point. Perhaps we can discuss it later?


Anyway, my main point is that there are many problems with the Quran; both errors and such things that are not considered moral/ethical at this time. If Muhammad is the best example, and the Quran is the "best way" of doing things, why would Allah not account for the shift in values? everything in the Quran reflects the customs/norms. of Arabia 1450 years ago.

Why do we follow a book with archaic morals/customs and so many errors in it? The quran itself says that if it were from someone other than Allah, surely we would find much erros/contradictions within it. To our knowledge today, we find them!

Shall we still accept Islam even though the Quran proves it to be false?


Thank you for your time; I appreciate it. Peace be with you my friend

-JP

 

[Emre_1974tr]

No dear friend. An Arab never say "this saying flat". Because Quran saying "like egg".İ showed you this.

Quran never has got mistake. Because it is from God.

You can see it(mistakes) in Bible or other "changed books". But in Quran never.

Don't afraid datas and asking this realy. Look an Arabian saying this:

بِسْمِ اللهِ الرحمنِ الرحيم
The explanation: (In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.)
God - be exalted – revealed the Glorious Quran in Arabic; because the apostle was one of the Arab, and his people were the Arab. But the religion came to all the world and all nations.
The Quran is the word of God; it is superior to any creature: it is superior to the apostle to whom it was revealed, who was asked about some Quranic revelations or ayat, and he said: "I don't know; God knows best about its true meaning! I merely heard it from the angel as such!"
The Quran is superior even to the angel Gabriel who conveyed it to Prophet Mohammed - peace be on him. It is superior to the generation of the people of the Prophet and the following generations: even to the twentieth and the twenty-first centuries and the following centuries; because simply it is the word of God - be exalted. Each generation will understand something of this glorious knowledge, and will, by time, discover many secrets and deep meaning that may be discovered later on.
An example of that is the Quranic aya 39: 5 where God - be exalted – said:
(يُكَوِّرُ اللّيْلَ عَلى النّهارِ و يُكَوِّرُ النَّهارَ عَلَى اللّيْلِ)
The explanation: (He makes the night spherical on the day, and makes the day spherical on the night)
This one miraculous Arabic word يُكَوِّر declares obviously that the earth is spherical; because the outer space is dark, and the daylight process only occurs in the upper atmospheric layer, and will take the spherical shape of the earth. At present, we understand the meaning of the aya in this way, but the ancient Arabs and Muslims understood it as: the day and night are wound around each other!
That is because the Quran consists of two categories:
1. The Muhkam, i.e. the revelations with obvious meaning,
2. and the Mutashabih, i.e. the revelations with mysterious meaning like the letters at the beginning of some soora's (or chapters) and many other ayat or revelations with scientific meaning and some other ayat of the Quran that constitute a challenge to all mankind to solve such puzzles, or to bring about one aya similar to the Quran: which they never did, nor will they do. And God - be exalted – declared that eventhough all the man-kind and the genie-kind united and cooperated with each other to bring about an analogue of the Quran, they will never be able to achieve that.
Therefore, the Quran is in Arabic; because it is the word of God, but the translation is the word of the translator according to his understanding and linguistic capability; which will never be the Quran; but only a translation of its interpretation and explanation in any language. In other words the translator will translate the meaning of the Quran, but he cannot translate the Quran itself.
For this reason, the Quranic revelation or aya should be mentioned as it is in Arabic, and may be accompanied by the translation of its meaning in English or in any other language; lest the reader should not think that the English words are the Quran, when in fact they are the word of the translator and it is only the translation of the meaning.
Therefore, it is a must that the aya of the Quran should be mentioned in Arabic, accompanied by its explanation in English, or any other language.
E. A. Nassir

And again look at this:

Arabic dictionary Lisan u’l Arab: “The word ‘dahw’ means to spread out, giving (something) a round shape.” The word “dahw” had also been defined as a game played with walnuts. Derived from the same stem, the word “medahi” referred to round stones. Despite the meaning of rotundity concealed in words derived from the word “dahw” there have been translators for whom a spherical earth was difficult to conceive, who had to translate it as “to spread out.” The actual shape of the earth does have the shape of an ostrich egg. Thus the shape of the earth is spheroid with depressions at the poles. The exact figure of the earth which had posed a problem throughout history was established by the Quran.



According to Quran World has ostrich egg form.

Regards.

 

[Jigsaw_Psyche]

No dear friend. An Arab never say "this saying flat". Because Quran saying "like egg".İ showed you this.

I didn't say they said "The Quran says the earth is flat". They said my translation was correct. That daha does actually mean "Spread out" and in context the earth in the Quran is flat.

This is what they have said: Muslims and non-Muslim Classical arabic speakers. You are one of the only to differ and you have not offered me your literal translation nor have you addressed any of the authentic islamic dictionaries that I have presented you with. The arabic is right there.

Quran never has got mistake. Because it is from God.

Yes I am aware of the Muslim claim regarding this. That is why I am asking you why the Quran says the earth is flat. And this is also why you are vehemently denying it.

You can see it(mistakes) in Bible or other "changed books". But in Quran never.

You Muslims keep saying the bible was corrupted, and originally contained the message of the Quran, but you are unable to present any evidence whatsoever to back up your claim. A partial manuscript? A hint of Islam, Allah or "Submission" before Muhammad opened his mouth? None, you know? It is very suspicious that everything came about with Muhammad, and not one single person before him had ever heard of Allah, Islam, Jibriel, etc..

According to Quran World has ostrich egg form.

Regards.

Sorry I cut off your article there was it is not applicable to Quran 79:30 which we are discussing at this point. Again, Quran 79:30 tells us that Allah created the world by spreading it out. daha - Spread out, Level out, Level off, Level ha - this so Sprad out this or Level out this.

Thats the whole point. If the Quran contains no errors or changes, then Allah created the earth by spreading it out. You may twist any other verse that you want, but if you do not address the wealth of authentic Islamic information that I have presented (as well as the arabic) then it is obvious that you are just avoiding the issue, and attempting to sidetrack me onto another issue in order to avoid answering what I have presented.

As I have said, the Quran contains many other errors; I am just focussing on one specific problem.


Thanks and peace

-JP

 

[Jigsaw_Psyche]

And again look at this:

Arabic dictionary Lisan u’l Arab: “The word ‘dahw’ means to spread out, giving (something) a round shape.” The word “dahw” had also been defined as a game played with walnuts. Derived from the same stem, the word “medahi” referred to round stones. Despite the meaning of rotundity concealed in words derived from the word “dahw” there have been translators for whom a spherical earth was difficult to conceive, who had to translate it as “to spread out.” The actual shape of the earth does have the shape of an ostrich egg. Thus the shape of the earth is spheroid with depressions at the poles. The exact figure of the earth which had posed a problem throughout history was established by the Quran.



According to Quran World has ostrich egg form.

Regards.

Sorry, you added the above bit in edit while I was replying.

As I have already shown you I have given you the original text from Lisan Al Arab regarding both duhiya and daha. Here it is again:

الأُدْحِيُّ و الإدْحِيُّ و الأُدْحِيَّة و الإدْحِيَّة و الأُدْحُوّة مَبِيض النعام في الرمل , وزنه أُفْعُول من ذلك , لأَن النعامة تَدْحُوه برِجْلها ثم تَبِيض فيه وليس للنعام عُشٌّ . و مَدْحَى النعام : موضع بيضها , و أُدْحِيُّها موضعها الذي تُفَرِّخ فيه .ِ


Translation: "Al-udhy, Al-idhy, Al-udhiyya, Al-idhiyya, Al-udhuwwa:

The place in sand where an ostrich lays its egg. That's because the ostrich spreads out the earth with its feet then lays its eggs there, an ostrich doesn't have a nest."

Please note the underlining there. Your source keeps claiming that Lisan Al Arab states that daha means to 'spread out into an egg shape'. Reading the original source above, it is Lisan Al Arab is CLEAR on what it means. The Ostrich spreads out the earth with its feet and lays its eggs there. There is absolutely no mention of forming an 'egg shape' nor any other 3D shape. The writer of your article has 'added on' to what Lisan Al Arab actually said, and blatantly omitted the part that is contradictory to what he is saying.

Lian Al Arab contradicts your article.

And now daha:

الدَّحْوُ البَسْطُ . دَحَا الأَرضَ يَدْحُوها دَحْواً بَسَطَها . وقال الفراء في قوله والأَرض بعد ذلك دَحاها قال : بَسَطَها ; قال شمر : وأَنشدتني أَعرابية : الحمدُ لله الذي أَطاقَا

بَنَى السماءَ فَوْقَنا طِباقَا

ثم دَحا الأَرضَ فما أَضاقا

قال شمر : وفسرته فقالت دَحَا الأَرضَ أَوْسَعَها ; وأَنشد ابن بري لزيد بن عمرو بن نُفَيْل : دَحَاها , فلما رآها اسْتَوَتْ

على الماء , أَرْسَى عليها الجِبالا

و دَحَيْتُ الشيءَ أَدْحاهُ دَحْياً بَسَطْته , لغة في دَحَوْتُه ; حكاها اللحياني . وفي حديث عليّ وصلاتهِ , اللهم دَاحِيَ المَدْحُوَّاتِ يعني باسِطَ الأَرَضِينَ ومُوَسِّعَها , ويروى ; دَاحِيَ المَدْحِيَّاتِ . و الدَّحْوُ البَسْطُ . يقال : دَحَا يَدْحُو و يَدْحَى أَي بَسَطَ ووسع



translation: "To daha the earth: means to spread it out." (followed by some poetry to give definitive proof as to the meaning of dahaha)

As I said, I have provided these before, as well as other Classical Arabic definitions for daha (please read my original post on this).

You are relying on a corruption of Lisan Al Arab for your interpretation (the person "based" their interpretation on what Lisan Al Arab says). I have given you the original quote.


Thanks and peace

-JP

 

[Skeptic Guy]

To try and summarize the lengthy post, I think the OP is saying Quran=good, everything else=bad. The problem I have is with any text telling me I need to surrender and be submissive (as the quotes towards the end of the post suggest). I don't care who is requiring my surrender and submissiveness, any priest or any god, it ain't gonna happen.

Now it depends on what particular role-playing you are doing and if you have a clear "stop phrase".

 

[Emre_1974tr]

Dear Jigsay;

İ am saying you, don't afraid from real datas and ask this, look at dictionaries.

Quran saying world has got ostrich egg form.

You can't change this real data

And , yes Allah word in all ages.Becasue İslam is first religion with Adam. When prophets die, after, peoples changing religion-book.

Until Quran. Only Quran saved until Big Crunch(doomsday)

Yes don't afraid my friend. Look at, Allah saying our world is like sphere (ostrich egg).

You never find a mistake Quran. But you can find a lot of mistakes and comedies at Bible and other changed books(Torah,Zebur vs....)

And look at and Ostrich Egg, this is Quran miracle really.

Regards

 

[slingblade]

Actually, it's all horse dung. Wait, no....horse dung is at least useful. All right, then it's all less than horse dung.

 

[Jigsaw_Psyche]

Dear Jigsay;

İ am saying you, don't afraid from real datas and ask this, look at dictionaries.

Quran saying world has got ostrich egg form.

You can't change this real data

I'm not changing the data.

Do you speak/read Arabic? I am thinking you don't (but that is fine). I am showing you what Classical Arabic experts and Islamic Scholars are telling you daha means but you refuse to accept it. What can I do? I have presented the evidence, yet you keep insisting that I am wrong despite all the evidence I have provided.

I am thinking you are doing the ostrich act now and burying your head on the sand am I right? hehe

And , yes Allah word in all ages.Becasue İslam is first religion with Adam. When prophets die, after, peoples changing religion-book.

Are there any surviving manuscripts or documents that show this? Any archaelogical evidence to show this? Anything at all? I have asked many Muslims for proof of this, but none can provide it for me.

Until Quran. Only Quran saved until Big Crunch(doomsday)

Because the Quran is on the Preserved Tablet in Jannat, right? But you forget that every event, everything, every single thing that ever was, and ever will be is on the "preserved tablet" as well, you know?

Therefore the Quran cannot be afforded anymore reliability than the Taurat/Injeel or Moby Dick!

Why did Allah allow the Taurat/Injeel to be corrupted, but save the Quran from Corruption? IF they all contained the same message, why not keep the first from being corrupted? It would save a lot of effort, you know?

Yes don't afraid my friend. Look at, Allah saying our world is like sphere (ostrich egg).

No, you have provided no evidence and ignored evidence. At this stage I cannot accept this statement.

You never find a mistake Quran.

You came here for Dawah. You want us to accept the Quran and Islam. This is fine, however, you should be able to answer for all the errors and contradictions in the Quran. I have only addressed one problem with the Quran and you have not answered it. Can you ask your imam about 79:30 for me? Perhaps he will tell which of us is right?

But you can find a lot of mistakes and comedies at Bible and other changed books(Torah,Zebur vs....)

We aren't discussing the Bible ; that makes your attempt at this Tu Quoque. However, the Quran is (alleged) to be the literal, unchanged and unchangeable, perfect word of Allah. The Bible is not considered to be such. It is considered 'inspired' so a comparison is not fitting.

Second off, you would have to address the original language of the bible to show us errors since the arabic of the Quran contains errors (ie. I have not relied on English translations to show you this error so far).

And look at and Ostrich Egg, this is Quran miracle really.

Regards

heh. I have already discussed this repeatedly. If you will not accept the word of your own scholars (the original quotes not the corruptions) then I cannot help you until you accept what they have to say.


Thanks and peace

-JP

 

[Emre_1974tr]

Dear Jigsaw;

you will learn,(if you don't afraid from data) dahw is ostrich egg. You will look at Lisan u’l Arab more careful, asking arab friends and you will be in real datas

Dahw= ostrich egg

Second;

Only Quran saved because it is last book.

God saved some prophets from enemies, but some prophets killed by enemies too, isn't it? God can saved all prophets but God don't do this.

And God can save all books, but saved only Quran.

Because this is test world.

God can make us in paradise direct.But God wants "test life" before.

So you can see a lot of mistakes and contrasts at bible and others.

But in Quran never.

Quran giving you science and datas. Like ostrich egg miracle.

Only quran gives you real 1 God beliving(not 3 in 1, not 33333 in 1"hindus")

İn real islam no imams, no holy men, no saints, no monks, no souls. These are pagan belivings.

Only in Quran you can see real monoteism and datas(like ostrich egg form world)

Regards and peace

 

[NotJesus]

Oh please, no raisins. It's like putting beef in chile.

There's plenty of beef in Chile.

If you meant 'chili,' I'm afraid I'm still not with you.

 

[Jigsaw_Psyche]

Dear Jigsaw;

you will learn,(if you don't afraid from data) dahw is ostrich egg. You will look at Lisan u’l Arab more careful, asking arab friends and you will be in real datas

Dahw= ostrich egg

I have already:
1. Discussed this issue with Arabs and Classical Arabic Speakers. They all agree that daha means 'spread out' and in context Allah is saying he created the earth flat.

2. Shown you the original quote from Lisan Al Arab that proves that the author of your article has misquoted in order to suit his purpose.

3. neither daha or duhiya mean egg-shaped.

4. Noted your switch from duhiya (you claimed THAT was the correct word) to dahaha again.

Just give it up or admit that I and all your own scholars and arabic experts are correct in their unanimous translation of daha.

Second;

Only Quran saved because it is last book.

God saved some prophets from enemies, but some prophets killed by enemies too, isn't it? God can saved all prophets but God don't do this.

And God can save all books, but saved only Quran.

Because this is test world.

I get a little tired of that excuse. Where does it say that all prophets were tested? Why is it fair that Isa was saved from execution, and a "lookalike" man put in his place?

Why should an innocent man die in Isa's place?

God can make us in paradise direct.But God wants "test life" before.

Because your omnipotent deity does not know who is a "true Muslim"? What is the purpose of "testing" people? Doesn't he know everything already?

So you can see a lot of mistakes and contrasts at bible and others.

We aren't talking about the Bible.

But in Quran never.

I have already shown you one and there are many many more. But since you will not see the simple truth about the one I have presented, I do not see much point in going over others with you. This is okay.

Quran giving you science and datas. Like ostrich egg miracle.

I've already shown you that the Quran does not say that.

Only quran gives you real 1 God beliving(not 3 in 1, not 33333 in 1"hindus")

hindus? You going for the Tu Quoque trifecta? hehehe funny

İn real islam no imams, no holy men, no saints, no monks, no souls. These are pagan belivings.

No imams you say? What sect of Islam are you? Sunni , Shia, Submittor, Wahabbi, Salafi? Just curious

Only in Quran you can see real monoteism and datas(like ostrich egg form world)


Regards and peace

hehe you keep going back to it although I have proven you to be incorrect (as well have your own scholars).


Ahhh what can I do, eh?

Peace

-JP

 

[Cactus Wren]

To try and summarize the lengthy post, I think the OP is saying Quran=good, everything else=bad.

More precisely, one particular interpretation of the Qu'ran=good, everything else including all other interpretations=bad.

Edip Yüksel, the person to whom the text in the OP is attributed, has his homepage here.

He also has some articles here, at an organization called "19.org".

A SMALL taste of what you're getting yourself into:

* The first verse, i.e., the opening statement "Bismillahirrahmanirrahim", shortly "Basmalah," consists of 19 Arabic letters.
* The first word of Basmalah, Ism (name), withouth conraction, occurs in the Quran 19 times.
* The second word of Basmalah, Allah (God) occurs 2698 times, or 19x142.
* The third word of Basmalah, Rahman (Gracious) occurs 57 times, or 19x3.
* The fourth word of Basmalah, Rahim (Merciful) occurs 114 times, or 19x6.
Although this phenomenon (the opening statement consists of 19 letters, and each word occurs in multiple of 19) represents a minute portion of the code, it was described by Martin Gardner in the Scientific American as "ingenious" (September, 1981, p. 22-24)
* The multiplication factors of the words of the Basmalah (1+142+3+6) add up to 152 or 19x8.
* The Quran consists of 114 chapters, which is 19x6.
* The total number of verses in the Quran including all unnumbered Basmalahs is 6346, or 19x334. If you add the digits of that number, 6+3+4+6 equals 19.
* The Basmalah occurs 114 times, (despite its conspicuous absence from chapter 9, it occurs twice in chapter 27) and 114 is 19x6.
* From the missing Basmalah of chapter 9 to the extra Basmalah of chapter 27, there are precisely 19 chapters.
* The occurrence of the extra Basmalah is in 27:30. The number of the chapter and the verse add up to 57, or 19x3.

Good luck. Have fun.

 

[Hokulele]

More precisely, one particular interpretation of the Qu'ran=good, everything else including all other interpretations=bad.

Edip Yüksel, the person to whom the text in the OP is attributed, has his homepage here.

He also has some articles here, at an organization called "19.org".

A SMALL taste of what you're getting yourself into:

Good luck. Have fun.

Wonderful, a Quranic numerologist. Has this guy met DJJ or Jiri yet?

 

[Emre_1974tr]

Dear friend Jigsaw;

dahw= ostrich egg,

İ asked this arabs and arabic speakers. And i look at our dictionaries. Dahw=ostrich egg.

And look at Reshad Khalifa's translation:

[79:30] He made the earth egg-shaped.

And look at Edip Yüksel and other some translations.

İf you asked an Arab "waht is dahw" and "which word is i ostrich egg in your language", Arabic speaker will tell you real data. Don't afraid, don't panic. Dahw=ostrich egg.

Second, yes God knowing all things. And God in all "time spots". İn future , in past, and in "now" time spot . But God giving as "an example" test . Showing us to "are we bad or good". This is symbolic test world.

Good peoples going to paradise in another world. But they have got some sins. İn this world you can pay "this little sins"

Bad peoples going to hell in another world. But bad persons have got some good diarrhea too. So thay can take some good things in this world.

Yes this is symbolic test and "pay-take" world too.

İ am not a sunni or shia or alevi or others.

İ am only and only muslim. No sect.

Like Muhammed, like David, like Jesus, like Solomon......

Real islam is very different and in Quran only.

You can find a lot of real miracles like Ostrich egg in Quran.

Best regards and peace.

 

[Tanstaafl]

I was considering getting some popcorn and settling in for the show, but you folks really need to expand this beyond this one dead-horse issue of the shape of the earth.

This show is just not popcorn-worthy yet.

There must be plenty of other passages to argue about.