Reagan on Rushmore?

[leftysergeant]

And for the record, FDR did not invent the 40 hour week, did not eliminate child labor...

It was thanks, in part, to his leadership, that these things did come about and became engrained into American tradition.

...didn't handle WWII particularly well...

I arttribute that to the fact that there were still Republicans in government and in public life. Had they had their way, we would have entered the war on the wrong side and German, rather than English, would have become the language of global empire.

...and had relatively little direct influence over the USs post-WWII affluence.

Cow cookies. He made sure that little of the massive deficit spending that the war effort took, went into the pockets of parasitic investors, but, instead, went into rebuilding our industrial infrastructure. Without the TVA and BPA, we would have had no aluminum industry to speak of, thus no aircraft industry. The GI Bill provided the most skilled work force the world had ever seen at a time when the rest of the world was, industrially, in a shambles.

It is thanks to Social Security that the most common way for old working-class people to die is not alone, in an unheated home, from tuberculosis or pneumonia.


The jelly-brained git from California started taking that all apart because he had sold his own soul to the corporate swine. Let them buy a place of their own to commemorate their meat puppet.

 

[varwoche]

Why pick on the Mormons? Pretty much all of Christianity tries to pretend the witch burnings didn't happen.

Because the Mormons aren't just ignoring passing historical events, but the founding tenets of their religion per the founder. And the fact that it happened in modern times makes it so stark, and that much more whacked out.

So how many people did Joesph Smith murder again?

Huh? In response to my GOP2011:Reagan, Mormons2011:Smith, you ask this goofy question? Like, someone with more blood on their hands would be a better comparison?

 

[Ladewig]

Given that the vast majority of Americans do not know where Mt. Rushmore is and do not know which presidents are already on it, why are the Reagan fans so eager to add him to the monument. If they want recognition for him, lobby to have him on a U.S. coin or bill. Heck, they must think Reagan is far more important than Hamilton - shoot for putting him on the sawbuck.

 

[sarge]

Given that the vast majority of Americans do not know where Mt. Rushmore is and do not know which presidents are already on it, why are the Reagan fans so eager to add him to the monument.

Well, it is possible that the Reaganites are not part of the "vast majority of Americans" that don't know where Rushmore is or who is on it. Or you might be wrong about the percentage of Americans that don't know squat about Rushmore. Or maybe the Reaganites are smart enough to recognize that Rushmore is a place for dead presidents, but not smart enough (or don't care) to know where it is or who else is on it.

If they want recognition for him, lobby to have him on a U.S. coin or bill. Heck, they must think Reagan is far more important than Hamilton - shoot for putting him on the sawbuck.[/QUOTE]

Was that intentional? If so, cudos.

 

[BenBurch]

Didn't handle WW-2 well? Tojo might have had another opinion of that.

 

[Chungy]

Given that the vast majority of Americans do not know where Mt. Rushmore is and do not know which presidents are already on it, why are the Reagan fans so eager to add him to the monument. If they want recognition for him, lobby to have him on a U.S. coin or bill. Heck, they must think Reagan is far more important than Hamilton - shoot for putting him on the sawbuck.

Perhaps it has to do with the artist's (Gutzon Borglum) ties to the KKK. The TV show, Brad Meltzler's DECODED, did a special on the KKK rumors, and it turns out they are all true. The only odd part was why would a racist artist put an image of Lincoln, and name his son Lincoln, up on the side of a mountain. That question was not realy answered other than he did save the Union from spiltting up, and it might have been part of the deal with Congress to get the cash. They did say Lincoln's beard took the most time to create, and that Washington's nose was 22ft long, as compared to the 21ft noses of the others.

The show also did a visit to the Crazy Horse Monument and discussed how the Rushmore monument was a slap in the face to American Indians. I have been to Rushmore and never knew that Borglum was a card carrying member of the KKK until I watched the show. They don't actually tell you at the visitor center, nor is it mentioned near his busk and bio, which is at the foot of Rushmore.

 

[TimCallahan]

Did your readingcomprehesionator stop working half way through my post?

And for the record, FDR did not invent the 40 hour week, did not eliminate child labor, didn't handle WWII particularly well, and had relatively little direct influence over the USs post-WWII affluence. I'll give you the minimum wage thing though.

FDR committed the greatest constitutional abuses since Lincoln and he fundamentally changed the relationship between citizens and the federal goverment. Much of what he "accomplished" was unconstitutional (more accurately, extra-constitutional). That he also accomplished some lasting good mitigates the bad......which is what I said from the begining.

FDR is perfectly Reaganesque. He is remembered fondly without regard for his actual record.

the following, referring to the Roosevelt administration's National Recovery Act, is from page 24 of Volume 5 of The March of Democracy by James Truslow Adams (emphasis and bracketed material added):

The first code to be submitted and accepted was that of the textile industry, which incidentally abolished child labor, but it soon became evident that the drafting of codes would be slow work, and on July 20 [1933] Roosevelt issued by decree a blanket code to shorten hours and raise wages. pending formulation of codes for individual industries.

Of course, most of the credit for the 40 hour work week and minimum wages should go to labor unions. However, in that regard we should remember that the Roosevelt administration also passed the National Labor Relations Act, also called the Wagner Act, in 1935. This gave federally mandated legal protections to labor unions, granted them the right to strike and protected workers from being discriminated against for taking part in union activities.

As to the war effort, he did give strong national leadership.

 

[NoahFence]

Maybe Fox News will put up the money? Maybe they'll just carve it over Teddy since conservatives now hate him for starting the National Park system.

LOL

Sooooo True!

As for the premise of Regan on Rushmore, no way dude! As was already stated, have 'em get their own mountain.

 

[Ladewig]

Was that intentional? If so, cudos.

Sadly, no. But I laughed heartily after you pointed out the one thing both those men have in common.

 

[Coffee]

Reagan? Nope. William Henry Harrison should be on Rushmore. As a president he made the least amount of bad decisions. Such a feat should be recognized.

 

[Travis]

Because the Mormons aren't just ignoring passing historical events, but the founding tenets of their religion per the founder. And the fact that it happened in modern times makes it so stark, and that much more whacked out.

Huh? In response to my GOP2011:Reagan, Mormons2011:Smith, you ask this goofy question? Like, someone with more blood on their hands would be a better comparison?

Sorry but as a former Mormon I don't see it as any wackier than any other religion. In fact I have great respect for its organizational skills and social support structure. So I kind of take it as a personal attack when people try to portray the religion as somehow being weirder and therefore deserving of derision.

 

[varwoche]

Sorry but as a former Mormon I don't see it as any wackier than any other religion. In fact I have great respect for its organizational skills and social support structure. So I kind of take it as a personal attack when people try to portray the religion as somehow being weirder and therefore deserving of derision.

I see, I have a better understanding of your prior irrational post in light of this irrational post.

Stop personalizing the discussion and deal with the fact that opinions vary.

 

[BenBurch]

Reagan? Nope. William Henry Harrison should be on Rushmore. As a president he made the least amount of bad decisions. Such a feat should be recognized.

You failed to normalize your data set!

 

[Travis]

I see, I have a better understanding of your prior irrational post in light of this irrational post.

Stop personalizing the discussion and deal with the fact that opinions vary.

And what was your rationale to pick on Mormons in the first place?

 

[varwoche]

And what was your rationale to pick on Mormons in the first place?

The delusional way that GOP2011 views Reagan impresses me as similar to the delusional way that Mormons view Smith. It was a passing comment until you got your undies in a paranoid bunch.

Get a mod to post an all clear for a topic change and I'll be glad to share my opinions about Mormon beliefs and the behaviors of the church.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I would think a Reagan-flavored jelly bean would be a more fitting tribute.

 

[FattyCatty]

Reagan on Rushmore? Stupid.

Agreed!

FDR on Rushmore? Only slightly less stupid. FDR did more long term harm to America than any president until Bush 43. That FDR also did some lasting good merely balances the scales and makes him average. Average should not make it to Rushmore.

I disagree. FDR did much for the country (as other posters have pointed out). The president who did the long-term harm was Reagan, with deregulation and the whole corporate greed and selfishness over country thing he encouraged.

Clinton I've come to hate much less over time. Given time for some perspective, he may actually merit consideration.

I didn't hate him, just didn't think much about him. I'll have to go back and look.

All things considered, I say leave it the way it is. America is unable to reach a consensus of anything right now, and immortalizing should require consensus.

Good point about consensus. Also, there isn't room for another face. Even more important is Tricky's point: you don't mess with other people's art.

If he goes up there, vandalism will start pretty quickly.

I'll be first in line with the mallet and chisel.

In other news, Republicans have decided to paint Reagan in between the man and the woman in American Gothic.

Really, what makes people think they can screw with other people's art? Gutzon Borglum designed Mt. Rushmore and unless you get permission from his kin or estate, don't even think about messing with a piece of art.

A very good point.

FDR stabilized us for 80 years. Reagan led the first part of the destabilization effort.

Agreed whole-heartedly.

It was thanks, in part, to his leadership, that these things did come about and became engrained into American tradition.



I arttribute that to the fact that there were still Republicans in government and in public life. Had they had their way, we would have entered the war on the wrong side and German, rather than English, would have become the language of global empire.

Cow cookies. He made sure that little of the massive deficit spending that the war effort took, went into the pockets of parasitic investors, but, instead, went into rebuilding our industrial infrastructure. Without the TVA and BPA, we would have had no aluminum industry to speak of, thus no aircraft industry. The GI Bill provided the most skilled work force the world had ever seen at a time when the rest of the world was, industrially, in a shambles.

It is thanks to Social Security that the most common way for old working-class people to die is not alone, in an unheated home, from tuberculosis or pneumonia.


The jelly-brained git from California started taking that all apart because he had sold his own soul to the corporate swine. Let them buy a place of their own to commemorate their meat puppet.

I usually think you're a little too vehement. But I think FDR did a lot for the country and was a good president. On the issue of Reagan, I find it impossible to say enough against him. So I have to agree with you on this post.

 

[Howie Felterbush]

I would think a Reagan-flavored jelly bean would be a more fitting tribute.

Mmmmmmmm...tastes like Alzheimer's...

 

[Chaos]

Didn't handle WW-2 well? Tojo might have had another opinion of that.

Given the disparity in overall warmaking capability, it didn´t take good handling to win that war.

 

[daenku32]

If the free-marketers want a Reagan statue they can build one with private donations on a privately own mountain on a privately owned land. They can even include all the crosses they want, if they like, since it would be private.

Then they can charge a free-market fee for people to see the statue.

Seriously, the free-market people should live up their free-market dream.