RBG leaves the stage.

Upchurch said:
But he doesn't have two votes worth of principles.
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Gorsuch and Kavanaugh would vote yes if Trump literally walked on the floor of the Senate wearing the full Emperor Palpatine costume and asked for emergency powers to start a Clone Army and build a Death Star to track down the rest of the Jedi.

Alito, Thomas, and especially Roberts do have (various levels of) limits to how much they'll let Trump get away with, but I have no desire to watch them discover what those limits are in real time when we can only learn it after it's potentially too late.
 
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angrysoba said:
Indeed. But you can see how that can lead to a president deciding that, “hey, I get the power to appoint judges and the Senate has the power to confirm, so let’s just pack the court with friendly judges. Let’s say another ten to over-ride the known leanings of the current court.”

What would prevent that? I presume nothing according to your stated pick.
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That's a different issue, that has nothing to do with the question Joe was asking and that I was answering.

I'm sure you know as well as I do what prevents the president from adding ten more seats to the bench, whenever he has the Senate votes to confirm his picks to fill those seats; and that it has nothing to do with the question Joe was asking.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Gorsuch and Kavanaugh would vote yes if Trump literally walked on the floor of the Senate wearing the full Emperor Palpatine costume and asked for emergency powers to start a Clone Army and build a Death Star to track down the rest of the Jedi.

Alito, Thomas, and especially Roberts do have (various levels of) limits to how much they'll let Trump get away with, but I have no desire to watch them discover what those limits are in real time when we can only learn it after it's potentially too late.
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Literally? Only Roberts would say no, and his opinion be based on formalism and contain the blueprint for how Trump could in the future avoid Roberts' formalistic concerns. He's all for killing Jedis, as long as it is done in a way consistent with his idea of the prestige and gravitas of the Court.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Gorsuch and Kavanaugh would vote yes if Trump literally walked on the floor of the Senate wearing the full Emperor Palpatine costume and asked for emergency powers to start a Clone Army and build a Death Star to track down the rest of the Jedi.
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I think the court would actually be unanimous in declining to even hear the case, since deciding whether to give the president emergency powers is clearly within the constitutional authority of the legislature.

It's not the court's job to prevent the legislature from using their constitutional authority in legal but foolish ways, nor does it have the authority to do so.
 
Suddenly said:
Literally? Only Roberts would say no, and his opinion be based on formalism and contain the blueprint for how Trump could in the future avoid Roberts' formalistic concerns. He's all for killing Jedis, as long as it is done in a way consistent with his idea of the prestige and gravitas of the Court.
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I have a slightly (very slightly) higher opinion of Roberts than that, but I'll grant that as often as not when he dissents it seems to be a case of "The evil you are suggesting requires Form A-7 to be filled out in Triplicate and you only submitted the Carbon Copy" style of procedural compliance rather than any legal or moral issue with the evil itself.
 
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Seems to me that the GOP plan has been to control all future elections through control of the Judiciary. They figured - rightly - that the Judicial branch was the weak point of the US system, and after 2000 they learned that controlling the Supreme Court you can control who gets control of the other branches of government. That's why the Supreme Court is so important to the GOP. It's not about abortion or guns, but about gaining power and keeping it. That power would come against the wishes of the majority of the US population, but the GOP has managed to cultivate a core of highly motivated and heavily armed voters who will insist that they are a majority. The rest of the population is too divided to respond to this power grab effectively.

Thats' - as I see it - the plan, anyway. If there's any truth to it, Trump will steal the election in November by using a combination of court approved voter suppression tactics and challenges to the Supreme Court. Success will further cement GOP control of the one branch of government that controls the two other. At that point, there's not saving US democracy.

So, what y'all need to come to grips with is what you will do when this happens. Will you fight for democracy or will you acquiesce?
 
theprestige said:
I think the court would actually be unanimous in declining to even hear the case, since deciding whether to give the president emergency powers is clearly within the constitutional authority of the legislature.

It's not the court's job to prevent the legislature from using their constitutional authority in legal but foolish ways, nor does it have the authority to do so.
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In a sanely run country all branches of government would understand that they serve as a last minute failsafe against being trapped by our own processes to the point that damage is being done but "LOL everyone's hands are tired" because "well technically the process is being followed."

I get it. You're huge on the whole "It doesn't matter if the whole country is going to hell as long as the 'process' is being technically followed" thing. I'm not. Our procedures are not suicide pacts.
 
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theprestige said:
That's a different issue, that has nothing to do with the question Joe was asking and that I was answering.

I'm sure you know as well as I do what prevents the president from adding ten more seats to the bench, whenever he has the Senate votes to confirm his picks to fill those seats; and that it has nothing to do with the question Joe was asking.
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Joe was talking about nomination for a vacancy in an election year. Okay, so your answer is: President and Senate do as they are entitled and if the voters don’t like it vote them out. But why not just extend that to other entitlements of the president and Senate? Why not just say, “hey tradition and fair play are not considerations any more. Let’s pack the courts!”
 
angrysoba said:
Joe was talking about nomination for a vacancy in an election year. Okay, so your answer is: President and Senate do as they are entitled and if the voters don’t like it vote them out. But why not just extend that to other entitlements of the president and Senate? Why not just say, “hey tradition and fair play are not considerations any more. Let’s pack the courts!”
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Perhaps a new approach is warranted: each president gets to add one justice to the Supreme Court per presidential term, whether there's been a departure or not. If there is a departure, no replacement is necessary because of the new additions every four years. Unless there's a mass exodus for whatever reason, in which case I suggest that the extra adds only need be done if the total number of justices falls below an agreed minimum (I think five is a reasonable number). The old process can be followed in that situation but I doubt it will come up very often-- the old bastards seem to enjoy very long lives, and getting a new one every four years will swell their ranks to what, thirty-ish at a time? It's not like there's a dearth of lawyers, after all. And they needn't all be on every case--they could even split up into groups to take multiple cases at once, thereby speeding up the process.
 
Crowd chants "vote him out"* when Trump "pays his respects" at Supreme Court.



Get out the smelling salts and fainting couches for the obligatory GOP snowflakes complaining about disrespect for the memory of RBG . . . when the crowd disrespected Trump paying pretending respect.



*Chants start at 1:25
 
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Resume said:
Get out the smelling salts and fainting couches for the obligatory GOP snowflakes complaining about disrespect for the memory of RBG . . . when the crowd disrespected Trump paying pretending respect.
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I'm sure the clutching pearls are kept well polished and within easy reach.

But I've been told by the Trump supporters on this forum that when someone does something they shouldn't, it's OK because both sides are bad, so no problem, surely :thumbsup: .
 
Pixel42 said:
Mitch Benn (a not particularly well known British comic) used to post regularly on a Doctor Who forum I belong to under his real name, and was amused when other posters doubted he was that Mitch Benn. He would point out that if was going to pretend to be someone famous on the internet, he'd pretend to be someone a lot more famous than Mitch Benn.
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Michael Scott Rohan the Author used to do the same on a couple of old Usenet groups and used to point out the same thing.

Mitch Benn is well known to Radio 4 comedy listeners.
 
angrysoba said:
Joe was talking about nomination for a vacancy in an election year. Okay, so your answer is: President and Senate do as they are entitled and if the voters don’t like it vote them out. But why not just extend that to other entitlements of the president and Senate? Why not just say, “hey tradition and fair play are not considerations any more. Let’s pack the courts!”
Click to expand...

Huh. I guess you don't know as well as I do what prevents the President from adding ten more seats to the Supreme Court whenever he wants. It's not tradition and fair play. It's the law. Adding more seats to the court requires new legislation.
 
By the way, anyone know what triggered the jeering in the video? It just seemed to begin so suddenly.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Michael Scott Rohan the Author used to do the same on a couple of old Usenet groups and used to point out the same thing.

Mitch Benn is well known to Radio 4 comedy listeners.
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“To crush your editors, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their publishers!” - Rohan the Author
 
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