Rape

[Suezoled]

Tony: it was easier for my dad to think it was my fault so I somehow deserved what happened. It made it easier to accept in his mind. It's hard for parents to accept, I guess, when their kids are hurt. So they make something to deal with the issue.

Or maybe trusting a guy to show me where the women's bathroom was is totally my fault. Dad said I should have been more careful. In that respect, dad was right.

 

[Tony]

Tony: it was easier for my dad to think it was my fault so I somehow deserved what happened. It made it easier to accept in his mind. It's hard for parents to accept, I guess, when their kids are hurt. So they make something to deal with the issue.

Or maybe trusting a guy to show me where the women's bathroom was is totally my fault. Dad said I should have been more careful. In that respect, dad was right.

That is such BS. Reminds me of something my dad said when I told him some friends of a friend had been murdered. He said" Well they shouldn't have been out that late".

Did they give you any drugs or anything like that?

 

[Suezoled]

Tony: no drugs. I had been sipping a rum and coke earlier, but nothing else.

 

[Tony]

Thank you for sharing your story and answering my questions.

 

[American]

Thank you for sharing your story and answering my questions.

Suezoled didn't answer any of my questions:


----------
- Name several towns in your area. Which ones are considered rich and snoby? Which are farm towns full of white trash?

- What are the major malls? Name a restaurant nearby (don't say "Burger King".)

- Where do young people go to be trendy? If they want to go out dancing or to a club?

- Radio towers are everywhere. Where are the big ones located near your highways?
----------


You're not really in Upstate New York, are you Suezoled? No, you're not, because you can't answer a single question about the area.

Dads don't blame their daughters for being raped; they universally stand by them and blame the guy who did it, even if she initiated the whole thing. (Mothers are more prone to blame the daughter, because women know other women and that you're supposed to watch out for yourself to some degree if you're a woman.)

Frat guys don't do gang rapes. That's like saying bikers are criminals. The frat boys I knew were not predators. Many were involved in very fruity "sexual awareness" programs, workshops and theatre groups that set out to educate students about issues on sex, rape, STDs, homosexual tolerance (they really got through to me!).


You WISH you could be gangbanged by some gorgeous frat boys. But you can't have ONE of them for one night, let alone catch one to keep as a wonderful boyfriend. The fact that they reject you allows you to make up false stories of rape. Every girl who truly has been raped should be pissed at you, you neurotic liar!

You're like the mothers who poison their kids and rush them to the emergency room for attention. Are you feeding your daughter matchbooks? Remember that woman who called the parents of a missing child and claimed to be her? That's YOU. That's just what you're like. Can't wait to see your face on the news someday!

Don't ever change, Hellcat. You're one-in-a-million. Truly priceless.

 

[Segnosaur]

I find rape (of anyone, man, woman and child) to be one of the most disgusting things, maybe even worse than murder. ...What should be the punishment for a rapist?

Has anyone suggested stuffing raw hamburger down their pants and letting loose a pack of rabbid pit bulls been suggested yet?

On a related topic... I have wondered, what is it that makes people treat sexual assault as a more serious crime than say a mugging, where the actual physical damage is approximately equivalent? I'm not saying that sexual assult shouldn't be treated as a more serious crime; I am just curious about the reasons why it would be. Is it a biological thing (a mechanism to prevent against children from unsuitable mates), or is it more of a society thing? (Some holdover from the days when people thought women were 'frail' things that should be protected.)

 

[AmateurScientist]

Re: Re: Rape

On a related topic... I have wondered, what is it that makes people treat sexual assault as a more serious crime than say a mugging, where the actual physical damage is approximately equivalent? I'm not saying that sexual assult shouldn't be treated as a more serious crime; I am just curious about the reasons why it would be. Is it a biological thing (a mechanism to prevent against children from unsuitable mates), or is it more of a society thing? (Some holdover from the days when people thought women were 'frail' things that should be protected.)

That's a very fair and legitimate question. I tend to think it's probably a holdover from more paternalistic days. Yes, women are frail, their "virtue" is precious, and their honor is to be defended. Witness the relative lack of outrage over the "rape" of a 14 year old boy by his adult woman teacher.

Yeah, it's a cultural holdover. It's completely inconsistent with the "I am woman; hear me roar" and "anything a man can do a woman can do better" feminist BS.

The Violence Against Women Act was inconsistent with that message too. Good thing the federal courts had the good sense to recognize it as the blatant affront to the Fourteenth Amendment that it was.

I'm no misogynist. I just wish a certain faction of feminists would stop being such manhaters.

AS

 

[kittynh]

well I'm as disgusted with a grown woman taking advantage of a 14 year old boy as a grown man taking advantage of a 14 yera old girl.

I think much of the world and some society even in the US would consider a girl raped to be "damaged goods". In some places it would require the young woman to kill herself.

Plus, there is the old, "she asked for it" by how she dressed, talked, where she was (out at night by herself), what kind of family she comes from, if she was drunk or high, if she accepted an expensive dinner...

Same thinking that says any 14 year old boy abused by an adult woman was ,"living every 14 year old boys dream..."

With Sexually transmitted diseases rape can become murder.

 

[renata]

When someone is mugged, the goal is not humiliation and power assertion over something very private, shared only when wanted. When someone is mugged, the victim does not get flashbacks everytime he or she touches a dollar bill, or handles a wallet. When someone is mugged, victim is not asked, if he or she enjoyed it, wanted to part with money. When someone is mugged, everyone knows who the attacker is, and who the victim is. When someone is mugged, victim does not have live in danger of dying from AIDS, getting a half dozen other illnesses or carrying attacker's child. When someone is mugged, victim's family supports him or her, does not blame him or her. When someone is mugged, victim is not ashamed to admit it to other people, because there is no stigma on the mugging.


And for the record, I feel as much outrage over rape of a man or a woman. Not everyone is a hypocrite.

 

[AmateurScientist]

With Sexually transmitted diseases rape can become murder. [/B]

Very doubtful. I've never heard of such a case. In most, if not in all states, in order for any assault to later become a murder the victim must die from the wounds inflicted within a certain amount of time, usually a year. Otherwise, the death is considered too remote in time to have been caused by the initial assault.

I do not know of any sexually transmitted disease which kills its victim within a year of transmission. It just doesn't happen. Therefore, I suspect that the most someone who knowingly transmitted a sexual disease to someone else through rape could also be charged with would be some kind of assault.

If you know of any such case in which the defendant was charged with murder, I would like to hear about it.

Interestingly, there was a young attorney in my city about 10 years ago who was accused of intentionally transmitting AIDS to a young woman he had recently met. There was no allegation of rape.

Once the woman discovered she had AIDS, she relayed her ongoing saga in several successive front page articles in the local newspaper over a period of two weeks or so. Although the paper never mentioned names, most in the legal community knew who the man was.

One day in court, I jokingly suggested to one of the DAs in the sex crimes unit that he should look into charging the young attorney with assault. "Can you describe the weapon used in the assault to the jury, please?" was the joke I set up.

Surprisingly, a few weeks later the DA's Office was in fact seriously looking into the possibility of charging him with assault on that very theory. I have no idea whether it was done independently, or whether my joking suggestion had anything to do with their actions.

They never got the chance. The attorney killed himself within a few weeks of being "outted" in the paper.

The woman died about 2 years later.

AS

 

[AmateurScientist]

When someone is mugged, the goal is not humiliation and power assertion over something very private, shared only when wanted. When someone is mugged, the victim does not get flashbacks everytime he or she touches a dollar bill, or handles a wallet. When someone is mugged, victim is not asked, if he or she enjoyed it, wanted to part with money. When someone is mugged, everyone knows who the attacker is, and who the victim is. When someone is mugged, victim does not have live in danger of dying from AIDS, getting a half dozen other illnesses or carrying attacker's child. When someone is mugged, victim's family supports him or her, does not blame him or her. When someone is mugged, victim is not ashamed to admit it to other people, because there is no stigma on the mugging.


And for the record, I feel as much outrage over rape of a man or a woman. Not everyone is a hypocrite.

I didn't accuse anyone of being hypocritical. I do, however, sense a strong double standard on the issue. I think it is a holdover from earlier, more paternalistic days.

I disagree with your assessment of how mugging victims must feel and the generalization for the motivations for all robberies.

One of my best friends was held up at gunpoint by a gang in a covered parking lot and was scared to death. He thought he was going to die. He was only 17.

I was mugged in a foreign country when I was 19, but I was too intoxicated to be aware of the danger, and thus I was not scared. I do not believe I harbor any permanent psychological scars from the incident, but I'm not sure I wouldn't if I had been in fear for my life as my friend was.

I suspect there are many victims of robberies who carry with them deep psychological scars from the trauma.

I don't think money is always the motive behind robbery, just as I don't believe power or misogyny is the motive behind every rape. Despite the feminist rhetoric we've been fed for the last 20 years, sometimes rape is indeed about sexual desire.

AS

 

[ImpyTimpy]

Kitty, that's simply because you're a woman. Women seem to associate sex with emotions while men seem to associate sex with just physical pleasure. Most fourteen year old males would love to have an attractive woman sleep with them (that's because the hormones tend to go nuts at that stage). Assuming pregnancy is not an issue and the act itself is limited to the sleeping with (no relationship, just a physical act) is there a problem?

On the other hand, we do have the real danger of pregnancy and possible relationship or emotional blackmail by the older woman over the immature male. I think that is why, even though the fourteen year olds might disagree, the act remains illegal. Is it rape though if nothing comes from it? Is it really a morally depraved action if no party is harmed?

well I'm as disgusted with a grown woman taking advantage of a 14 year old boy as a grown man taking advantage of a 14 yera old girl.

I think much of the world and some society even in the US would consider a girl raped to be "damaged goods". In some places it would require the young woman to kill herself.

Plus, there is the old, "she asked for it" by how she dressed, talked, where she was (out at night by herself), what kind of family she comes from, if she was drunk or high, if she accepted an expensive dinner...

Same thinking that says any 14 year old boy abused by an adult woman was ,"living every 14 year old boys dream..."

With Sexually transmitted diseases rape can become murder.

 

[renata]

As to knowingly transmitting HIV- there was a case a few years back in NY, when a man was charged with attempted murder, I think because he knowingly infected several women with HIV. It was the first of its kind, I can't find the link, but it made a splash at the time. It was particularly bad, because I think there was some evidence he was attempting to infect them.

More recently, there was a case in SF

http://www.equality.org.za/news/2003/09/18genehill.php

Former San Francisco health commissioner Ronald Gene Hill has been charged with intentionally infecting a former boyfriend with HIV.
Hill was arrested after a grand jury brought down an indictment accusing him of knowingly and intentionally exposing another person to the virus that causes AIDS. The 46 year old Hill is being held in a county jail pending the posting of $100,000 bail.

It's the first time that charges have been laid under the law which was passed in 1998.

I do, however, sense a strong double standard on the issue. I think it is a holdover from earlier, more paternalistic days.

I am sure there is a double standard. Perhaps it comes from men thinking that a 14 year old boy fantasizes about sex with his teacher, or that a man cannot get aroused by a woman and thus cannot be raped by a woman. However, you went into this assuming a double standard from a faction of man hating feminists. However, I think most feminists are very sympathetic to issues of male rape. I do not know who it is that is not, but I have never heard a feminist question it.

I disagree with your assessment of how mugging victims must feel and the generalization for the motivations for all robberies.

Well, I am sure there are some that are different, very gruesome. I am sorry if I do not put a disclaimer in every comment. Mine was a general asessment of the differences based on many things, among them 3 years as a peer counselor in college, for which I had to have some basic training in rape counseling. Oh, and we had a few mugging victims also. I know mugging victims can get severely bruised, some crimes are very gruesome and scary. Hey, car accident victims sometimes are afraid to cross the street! But I do not know of any crime against self that even in its mildest form creates so much suffering for the victim, for years. The worst mugging is worse than an average rape, probably. The nicest rape is horrendous.

I am very sorry your friend thought he was going to die. It sounds like an awful situation for a kid. Was he too ashamed to tell his family? Did he not tell his girlfriend because he thought she might leave him? Was he afraid to ever go shopping again? Did he have to have bloodtests for several months to make sure he was not going to die? Did anyone ask him if he enjoyed it? No? Then it was not like even the mildest rape. It is a very different situation. Rape victims are not just afraid for their lives for duration of the event, they are afraid for their lives for 6 months after. And the shame and fear and secrecy can last years. And if you knew the times boyfriends can't deal with the fact a woman is raped and leave because they are angry, because they don't know what to do, because they are afraid of getting an STD from a rapist. So I sympathize with him, very much. But I do not see much sympathy from you, but rather remarks about man haters, double standard, and feminist rhetoric.

I don't think money is always the motive behind robbery, just as I don't believe power or misogyny is the motive behind every rape. Despite the feminist rhetoric we've been fed for the last 20 years, sometimes rape is indeed about sexual desire.

I am sure there are exceptions to every rule. But, once again, my post, and this thread is not about exceptions. It is about the average. And the "feminist rhetoric" is mostly right, even if you choose to diminish it by slapping a label on it.

 

[AmateurScientist]

Originally posted by renata

I am very sorry your friend thought he was going to die. It sounds like an awful situation for a kid. Was he too ashamed to tell his family? Did he not tell his girlfriend because he thought she might leave him? Was he afraid to ever go shopping again? Did he have to have bloodtests for several months to make sure he was not going to die? Did anyone ask him if he enjoyed it? No? Then it was not like even the mildest rape. It is a very different situation. Rape victims are not just afraid for their lives for duration of the event, they are afraid for their lives for 6 months after. And the shame and fear and secrecy can last years. And if you knew the times boyfriends can't deal with the fact a woman is raped and leave because they are angry, because they don't know what to do, because they are afraid of getting an STD from a rapist. So I sympathize with him, very much. But I do not see much sympathy from you, but rather remarks about man haters, double standard, and feminist rhetoric.

I think you are doing a good job of making Segnosaurus' point, assuming he had one by posing his presumptively rhetorical question. You have placed rape on a sacred pedestal, and by doing so you presume that other victims of violent crimes are affected less by their experiences.

Without a doubt, a violent rape is uniquely intimate, unlike any other violent crime in its personal intimacy. Without a doubt, that and the risk of pregnancy and disease carries with it unique fears and concerns and traumas for rape victims.

Are those really worse than having your life threatened? Are you serious? Have you ever had a gun pointed in your face?

I think you are letting defensive emotions get the better of you.

You accuse me of being unsympathetic, when in fact none of my remarks to this point in this thread have directly addressed rape victims. You equate my criticisms of some brands of feminism with a dismissal of the trauma and pain felt by real victims of rape. That's not fair or warranted.

Your snipping at me about manhaters and feminist rhetoric ignores that in fact there are feminists who claim that all sex is rape, that rape is about power, not sex, and that many young men are unfairly targeted and branded rapists by militant groups of vigilantes on college campuses after any woman claims to have been date-raped. Forgive me if to me that smacks of man-hating, but it does.

As a man, I assume no guilt for any other man's raping of a woman. Nevertheless, to hear so much talk on college campuses or on "Nightline" or elsewhere in the media, one would be justified in concluding that I am guilty by association. I have the Y chromosome, therefore, I am a potential rapist to some women. Pardon me if I do not appreciate being regarded as a potential felon simply because of my sex. Pardon me if I do not appreciate attempts to make me feel guilty because I cannot possibly know what it feels like to be raped.

Does your aggressive, slightly accusatory stance on the issue make you feel better? Do you think your stance might make me feel less welcome to speak openly about the issue? Does that make you happy?

Why is it OK for you to squelch my opinion on the matter? I'm not accusing you of anything. You, on the other hand, have deliberately tried to make me feel bad about it. Is that fair? Is it nice?

AS

 

[renata]

I think you are doing a good job of making Segnosaurus' point, assuming he had one by posing his presumptively rhetorical question. You have placed rape on a sacred pedestal, and by doing so you presume that other victims of violent crimes are affected less by their experiences.

I have done no such thing. He asked what it might be a more serious crime, I told him my opinion on why. No sacred pedestal at all. I also do not denigrate any victim of a crime, do not talk abot hypocrites, and do not talk about special groups, or rhetoric. You, unfortunately have been the only one so far who have tried to bring politics and special interests into this.

Without a doubt, a violent rape is uniquely intimate, unlike any other violent crime in its personal intimacy. Without a doubt, that and the risk of pregnancy and disease carries with it unique fears and concerns and traumas for rape victims.

Which has been my point. So, we do not disagree.

Are those really worse than having your life threatened? Are you serious? Have you ever had a gun pointed in your face?

Do you want me to answer that? Because you might not like the answer. Remember where I came from, and when I came from there. Do you think, perhaps, as someone who lived through USSR trying to squelch seccession, sending soldiers and tanks down my streets, and Pamyat threatening pogroms and stonings I am somewhat familiar with concept of fear for personal safety. Look up 1989, USSR, riots. But I am not interested in upping the personal horror story index. Not my style, as you should know by now. I said I sympathize with your friend, as I would with victim of any violent offense. I am merely saying, as you confirmed above that victims of rape do indeed have a unique and particular trauma, in addition to the fear for their life and the immediate pain they feel during the rape, which sometimes also happens at gunpoint.

I think you are letting defensive emotions get the better of you.

I do not think I am getting emotional here.

You accuse me of being unsympathetic, when in fact none of my remarks to this point in this thread have directly addressed rape victims. You equate my criticisms of some brands of feminism with a dismissal of the trauma and pain felt by real victims of rape. That's not fair or warranted.

Almost every post here has inncluded a snipe at hypocrites, man haters, feminist rhetoric, protective holdovers. It seems a strange attitude in a thread about rape. I merely commented about that. Now who is being defensive?

Your snipping at me about manhaters and feminist rhetoric ignores that in fact there are feminists who claim that all sex is rape, that rape is about power, not sex, and that many young men are unfairly targeted and branded rapists by militant groups of vigilantes on college campuses after any woman claims to have been date-raped. Forgive me if to me that smacks of man-hating, but it does.

Yes, there is a lunatic fringe. But of course, once again we are not talking about lunatics, are we. Because then I would say you are ignoring predatory men, rape women with rohypnol, use the law to get off, that many young women are afraid to report rapes because they are maligned by society and by chauvinists. But you don't see me make those inflammatory comments, do you? Because that would make me focus on the fringe, on the exception rather than the the rule. Just because there are several radicals out there, does not mean the whole feminist movement is tainted, or that every discussion about rape needs to turn into this. Just as because there are radical environmentalists does not mean that every hike in the woods needs to talk about them, does it? Best discussions about the issues revolves around the middle, not about lunatics- on all sides.

As a man, I assume no guilt for any other man's raping of a woman. Nevertheless, to hear so much talk on college campuses or on "Nightline" or elsewhere in the media, one would be justified in concluding that I am guilty by association. I have the Y chromosome, therefore, I am a potential rapist to some women. Pardon me if I do not appreciate being regarded as a potential felon simply because of my sex. Pardon me if I do not appreciate attempts to make me feel guilty because I cannot possibly know what it feels like to be raped.

I think it is entirely shameful if anyone ever makes you feel that way. Besides, I do not think you cannot possibly know what it feels like to be raped. There is of course homosexual male rape, with most consequences, except the pregnancy. I think it is utterly fallacious for anyone to ever consider any man as a potential aggressor, and as someone who cannot imagine himself a victim of rape.

Does your aggressive, slightly accusatory stance on the issue make you feel better? Do you think your stance might make me feel less welcome to speak openly about the issue? Does that make you happy?

It was not my intent to be accusatory. If it came out that way, I hope you accept my apology for that portion of my post. I still stand in disagreement with you over your style in this, but I think you and I have disagreed in the past rather amicably, and can do over this matter as well.

Why is it OK for you to squelch my opinion on the matter? I'm not accusing you of anything. You, on the other hand, have deliberately tried to make me feel bad about it. Is that fair? Is it nice?

AS

Once again, not my intent to make you feel bad. But I was somewhat...surprised that your posts in this thread centered on the lunatic fringe, feminist rhetoric only. You seemed to forego majority of victims to focus your displeasure with a really tiny portion of feminist movement. You also seemed to first disagree with my list of differences...and then agree with it. My whole point was that the rape victims are prone to unique suffering. Perhaps, then perpetrators should have a different level of punishment. Perhaps not. Now we might get into a discussion over whether the punishment should be in proportion to the suffering of the victim, which I think is a different topic, but an interesting one, don't you think?


There was a fascinating article in the New Yorker that I know you subscribe to about 2 months back about evolution of rape laws, do you recall it? It talked about the jury selection, and how the worst jurors for prosecution for rape trials were elderly women, and the best men, who never buy into she asked for it BS. It also talked about evolution of rape laws and how some laws regarding consent changed only recently. I will have to look through my old stack to find the date.

 

[Tricky]

With all respect and adoration for Renata, I must agree with Amateur Scientist here. As a victim of a mugging, I have had many nighmares from it, although I admit they have diminished in recent years.

All situations are different. Some muggings are worse than some rapes. I have known rape victims who (apparently) recovered quickly and some who were permanently traumatized. The same with mugging victims. So it is simply impossible to put them each in a separate pile and claim they are different. A lot depends on circumstances.

But it is true that rape is something that gets all red-blooded people up in arms. Even suggested rape (or even flirting) was the cause of many lynchings in the South (southern US) in the post-civil war days. While it is an awful crime and should be punished severely, I also believe that there are a number of cases where unscrupulous females have use it to gain revenge against males.

But in no way do I think rape (or mugging) should be punished as severely as murder. While both may have horrible consequences, the victim is still alive, a condition that most of them prefer to death.

 

[Tony]

With all respect and adoration for Renata, I must agree with Amateur Scientist here. As a victim of a mugging, I have had many nighmares from it, although I admit they have diminished in recent years.

All situations are different. Some muggings are worse than some rapes. I have known rape victims who (apparently) recovered quickly and some who were permanently traumatized. The same with mugging victims. So it is simply impossible to put them each in a separate pile and claim they are different. A lot depends on circumstances.

But it is true that rape is something that gets all red-blooded people up in arms. Even suggested rape (or even flirting) was the cause of many lynchings in the South (southern US) in the post-civil war days. While it is an awful crime and should be punished severely, I also believe that there are a number of cases where unscrupulous females have use it to gain revenge against males.

But in no way do I think rape (or mugging) should be punished as severely as murder. While both may have horrible consequences, the victim is still alive, a condition that most of them prefer to death.

Hey Tricky, just curious, where were you mugged?

 

[ImpyTimpy]

Renata and AS

While both of your points are extremely well argued and quiet a pleasure to read, I must say I am siding with Amateur Scientist on this one. Renata, I think your comments do in fact trivialise serious crimes while making rape into something more unique. Whether that was your intention or not, as a third party, this is the impression I am given when reading through your material. AS's rebuttal seems to be fairly good although both of you appear to me as starting to become emotionally involved in this debate. Perhaps it is time to back off before the emotions get heated up even more and things are said which may be regretted later?

Finally, I think Tricky puts the point accross very well when he says:

But in no way do I think rape (or mugging) should be punished as severely as murder. While both may have horrible consequences, the victim is still alive, a condition that most of them prefer to death.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[AmateurScientist]

All situations are different. Some muggings are worse than some rapes. I have known rape victims who (apparently) recovered quickly and some who were permanently traumatized. The same with mugging victims. So it is simply impossible to put them each in a separate pile and claim they are different. A lot depends on circumstances.

Yes, indeed, Tricky. I should have mentioned that I have seen and heard rape victims who were apparently not terribly traumatized. The alleged victim in my recent case was quite calm and matter of fact about it, and claimed to have slept through the whole thing, only to wake to a light grunting noise after the guy had already ejaculated in her. The physical evidence was unequivocal that he did ejaculate into her. Because of her highly implausible account, and because of her admissions that she had flirted, drunk, and danced with the guy earlier, and that apparently he knew where she lived in advance, the jury concluded that they had had a relationship that simply went bad. It was easy to get back at the guy by claiming he raped her.

Just last night I watched a re-run of a terrific show on Discovery Times about real cases in the state courts in San Francisco. One of them was a real rape trial with facts similar to mine. The victim claimed the defendant raped her in her sleep. She was very calm and matter of fact. The DA asked how she felt and her quick answer was "pissed off." She seemed to be no more pissed off than I was at age 23 when a guy plowed into my car and took the front door off and denied responsibility. I'm not equating the two events; I'm stating an observation about the lack of apparent trauma and horror she suffered.

In my case, to answer possible questions about her motive for bringing such a serious allegation without factual basis, I told the jury the story of Victoria Price, the despicable white Huntsville woman who wrongfully accused six of the nine black "Scottsboro Boys" of gang raping her on a freight train bound from Chattanooga to Memphis. She told her story under oath 16 times at 16 different trials of those poor teenage men. Only two of them eventually had their convictions overturned because their trials had been unfair. The rest spent decades, or died, behind bars for nothing. She never recanted or apologized. She took her reason for the false accusations to her grave decades later.

But it is true that rape is something that gets all red-blooded people up in arms. Even suggested rape (or even flirting) was the cause of many lynchings in the South (southern US) in the post-civil war days. While it is an awful crime and should be punished severely, I also believe that there are a number of cases where unscrupulous females have use it to gain revenge against males.

Absolutely. See above and read or watch To Kill a Mockingbird or Anatomy of a Murder. Lynch mobs routinely formed over such things. Hell, read John Grisham's A Time to Kill for the popular reaction and sentiment about the justified killing of a rapist by a girl's father. I'm not saying such feelings and reactions aren't normal or without any basis. Nevertheless, society is wrong to let those outraged by allegations of rape made by their loves ones to take matters into their own hands and exact vigilante justice. Such "justice" represents a complete breakdown of order and is an example of anarchy and lawlessness. It shouldn't be applauded in this or any other thread.

But in no way do I think rape (or mugging) should be punished as severely as murder. While both may have horrible consequences, the victim is still alive, a condition that most of them prefer to death.

Neither does the judicial or legal establishment.

AS

 

[Tricky]

Hey Tricky, just curious, where were you mugged?

In Alabama, in the early 70's. I was fifteen and working a night job. I had missed the bus after work and was walking home through a "bad" part of town. I was tackled then surrounded by three black men. They looked like they were about to beat me up, and I said "peace, brother". That seemed to take them aback. They paused and said "you got any money?". I gave them everything I had (seven dollars). They took it and left. It was extremely traumatic for a teenage liberal (Yep. Even back then), and it made me rethink a lot of things. In the end I realized that they only wanted my money, but they would have probably done whatever it took to get it. My "peacemaking" and willingness to part with my money probably saved me from being beaten... or worse.

So I was one of the ones who was not severely traumatized by the mugging, but I can still see them in my mind, circling me, looking very dangerous and hateful. I wonder often what would have happened if I had done anything else.