randi the harasser

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

Did you catch this one?

http://showbizandstyle.inq7.net/lifestyle/lifestyle/view_article.php?article_id=16505



A "poor man" who can convert quarters into dollars.

Oh... the irony.

I wonder if he actually gave back the dollars? If so, I think I know what his problem may be...

I think the technical term is: 'Not a viable business plan'.

 

[KingMerv00]

More info on lawsuits involving Randi can be found here. The main page is here.

Did I miss a retraining order?

 

[T'ai Chi]

Yet they have no problem slapping a nice round monetary figure on their "services"...

Most people who provide a service don't have any problems attaching dollar amounts to it.

 

[T'ai Chi]

Yes, but when those people make huge amounts of money based on a misrepresentation of what they are doing, that is a scam.

I'd say, as I always say, that if you strongly believe that, then you should really report her to the proper law enforcement agencies who deal with that sort of thing, because complaining about it on a bulletin board won't solve anything.

.., then she should be able to perform some substantial useful service..

Apparently some of the people actually using her services do consider them useful.

If this woman has the ability to see who committed a crime and does nothing to catch them, then she is aiding them in their crime.

But that's like saying you have the ability to become a policeman and solve crimes yourself, so therefore you are aiding the theives in their crimes. In other words, you are arguing based on hypothetical situations.

If these powers are real, why have no police departments credited psychics with helping them solve real crimes?

There's certainly been cases of that. http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/psychics/11.html

I see psychic shows all the time that show real police personnell saying a psychic helped them out. If you disagree with that fact, that's really irrelevant.

 

[walthrup48]

Did I miss a retraining order?

Check with Randi. None of his writings about the court decisions that went against him mention anything of the sort and I strongly suspect it's just another piece of hearsay that is propogated because people want it to be true.

Reading material here (+ next few entries)

 

[T'ai Chi]

Many people provide a service for the money they make...

They do provide a service. Apparantly readings or guidance is demanded by the public and the readers supply it.

You not liking the service is another issue.

 

[T'ai Chi]

Offhand, the ones I can think of that charge this much to individuals on an hourly basis are Doctors, Lawyers, and various pschiatric health care people. So most of those who charge $200/hr for their services leave you with a bit more to show for your expenses than a psychic.

This is just you not agreeing with what they charge for their services.

So?

 

[CFLarsen]

Most people who provide a service don't have any problems attaching dollar amounts to it.

No, they don't. But that's not the issue here. The issue is, just what kind of "service" do they provide?

I'd say, as I always say, that if you strongly believe that, then you should really report her to the proper law enforcement agencies who deal with that sort of thing, because complaining about it on a bulletin board won't solve anything.

You know damn well that legislation is not keeping up with what should be done. There is not enough being done to prevent pedophiles from raping children. Does that mean you will accept pedophiles raping children?

You will ignore this, as you have ignored any pertinent question put to you. But the mere fact that you refuse to answer this question is testament to your inherent hypocrisy.

Apparently some of the people actually using her services do consider them useful.

And thus, you allow any crook to cheat anyone. That is inherently cruel of you.

But that's like saying you have the ability to become a policeman and solve crimes yourself, so therefore you are aiding the theives in their crimes. In other words, you are arguing based on hypothetical situations.

Do you realize what you just said? Psychics claim to have the ability to become a policeman and solve crimes themselves, so therefore they are aiding the thieves in their crimes.

Sheesh, T'ai Chi: You just acknowledged that psychics are crooks, yet you defend them.

There's certainly been cases of that. http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/psychics/11.html

Name one specific case which a psychic has "helped" solved a crime. Just one.

I know you won't, you coward. You won't, because you can't.

I see psychic shows all the time that show real police personnell saying a psychic helped them out. If you disagree with that fact, that's really irrelevant.

Let's hear your case that just one psychic has "helped them out".

They do provide a service. Apparantly readings or guidance is demanded by the public and the readers supply it.

You not liking the service is another issue.

It isn't a question of liking the "service" they provide. It is solely a question of whether the "service" they provide is "helpful".

The onus is on you, T'ai Chi. Stop defending these psychic vampires and start providing some evidence.

 

[SirPhilip]

People like Sylvia are why I abandon all rational pretense when dealing with Bush. It's difficult for almost anyone to wrap your head around a morally insane person. You try to rationalize it away as "Well, perhaps they just think they are helping people. I just cannot believe anyone would do something as heartless as that..", or project yourself onto them. Then you look hard at what they are actually doing and find a yawning abyss.

Believe it...

 

[hcmom]

They do provide a service. Apparantly readings or guidance is demanded by the public and the readers supply it.

You not liking the service is another issue.

I'm not all that fond of the service provided by auto mechanics who charge for repair work that isn't legitimately needed or correctly done either...

 

[T'ai Chi]

I'm not all that fond of the service provided by auto mechanics who charge for repair work that isn't legitimately needed or correctly done either...

The customer is always free to complain I guess. I guess the person's who demand readings apparently feed it is needed.

 

[hcmom]

The customer is always free to complain I guess. I guess the person's who demand readings apparently feed it is needed.

So it's ok to cheat someone as long as they don't realize they're being cheated?

 

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

The customer is always free to complain I guess. I guess the person's who demand readings apparently feed it is needed.

Yes, because they think that psychics have magical powers, and will tell them magical things that will change their lives. If they don't really have magical powers, that is called 'lying'.

You do know what lying means, don't you T'ai Chi?

 

[Yahzi]

This is actually true... they have been conducting these experiments in the Nevada desert for over fifty years now. The studies are large scale, and very well-funded. The experiments have been amazingly successful... for the casino owners.

Hey!

That's my line!

 

[JonnyFive]

CFLarsen had good points, but I'd like to respond to this as well. Perhaps I have a different take on things.

I'd say, as I always say, that if you strongly believe that, then you should really report her to the proper law enforcement agencies who deal with that sort of thing, because complaining about it on a bulletin board won't solve anything.

I would love to. However, there is a very broad line between what is a scam which is legally actionable, and one which the authorities will ignore. I suppose my best course of action might be to contact the BBB. I cannot file a consumer complaint, as I am not actually a customer of this woman's.

I suppose the FTC might have some juridiction. I will contact them about this, but have my doubts about what their response will be. Although the fortune tellers and astrologers get off under the guise of entertainment (and I do agree that they provide this for some people), the "police psychics" might be crossing a line by making more substantial claims.

However, it would be hard to argue any real harm beyond monetary issues, and I doubt those are large enough for the FTC to care.

There is a distinction between what is legally a scam, and what is ethically one, at least in the mind of the US government. I did not say I agree with that, but my agreement or disagreement has no bearing on reality.

Apparently some of the people actually using her services do consider them useful.

But that is beside the point. I would argue that those using her "find missing people" services are laboring under false hope.

But that's like saying you have the ability to become a policeman and solve crimes yourself, so therefore you are aiding the theives in their crimes. In other words, you are arguing based on hypothetical situations.

Yes, I am. And hypothetically if she can see the person committing a crime or knows the location of a missing person, then she has the same obligation to society that any criminal witness has. I did not say she would be put in jail for refusing to help, only that she is unethical. If she does not have those abilities, then she is lying.

There's certainly been cases of that. http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/psychics/11.html

I see psychic shows all the time that show real police personnell saying a psychic helped them out. If you disagree with that fact, that's really irrelevant.

That's funny, I read something interesting at the bottom of that article:

"Thus far, a psychic's reliability for law enforcement has not been established. Anecdotal information is sometimes impressive and even surprising, but nothing can be concluded about using psychics as resources in solving a crime."

You know, that article is hardly supportive of the position that psychics are used often.

Police personnel saying that a psychic "helped them out" is also totally irrelevant. Being fooled by someone does not give them the ability to perform under controlled conditions with the possibility for deception and vague guesswork removed.

Again, why no FBI unit? My agreement is completely irrelevant, of course. However, I would argue that the evidence is far from compelling. I saw a TV show where some guy said aliens were real. Does that make them real?

As CFLarsen said, please provide specific examples. I do not care about vague "police use psychics sometimes" statements. I don't care about the police humoring a psychic when they have no leads and don't want to look like they are doing nothing. The evidence I have seen leads me to believe this woman is a fraud, as are all other police psychics I have ever seen.

Can you please cite specific examples and prove me wrong!

Tai, another question: does a well-known person who claims to be psychic being wrong numerous times generally suggest to you that psychics do not have powers, or does it suggest to you only that the one person who was wrong is not a real psychic, but that the powers are still real and possible?

 

[Cuddles]

Police personnel saying that a psychic "helped them out" is also totally irrelevant. Being fooled by someone does not give them the ability to perform under controlled conditions with the possibility for deception and vague guesswork removed.

Of course, there's another issue here. Lot's of people help the police out. Some of them are no doubt people who claim to be psychic. There is no need for the police to be fooled by a psychic. If a psychic witnesses a murder and tells the police about it, they can genuinely claim to be a psychic who has helped the police. The fact that they were not operating as a psychic means that they are misleading people with regards to their ability, but they are not actually lying.

There is also the issue that was brought up in another thread, and I believe stemmed from an actual quote from a police department. When investigating a case, the police will follow up every tip they get, whether from a psychic or not. They can't take the chance of ignoring something when the person might actually know something, epecially since it is entirely possible someone will claim to be psychic in order to avoid saying how they know anything. Some psychic call the police on a regular basis to give tips, and most of them will be followed up. The psychic can genuinely say they are helping with police investigations, even though what they are really doing is wasting valuble police time.

 

[Randi]

This is in rebuttal to Jaime Licauco’s recent irresponsible tirade against James Randi. A copy was sent both to Mr. Licauco and the editor of the Philippine Daily Inquirer, and was -- wisely -- ignored.

In reference to the October 24th article in the Philippine Daily Inquirer by Jaime Licauco:

(1) He claims that, as a magician, I was known as “The Great Randi.” I have never used that name, even when I was resident there in the Philippines and performing on the night-club circuit. Mr. Licauco is wrong.

(2) He says that this Foundation offers our million-dollar prize “to anyone who could prove that telekinesis was true.” We offer it, and have done so for 10 years now, for any evidence of a paranormal event or ability; it is not in any way limited to “telekinesis.” Note: though Mr. Licauco himself claims paranormal abilities, he has not applied for the prize, which he should be easily able to win.

(3) Licauco writes: “When somebody comes up to prove telekinesis, Randi changes the rules. Randi always finds loopholes so that, in the end, he concludes nothing has been proven.” Again, absolutely wrong. No change of rules has ever taken place, and all applicants who have been tested have attested, in writing, that the conditions and parameters of the test were correct and acceptable. No “loopholes” can be invoked, because all parties agree to the conditions, in advance. Furthermore, as Mr. Licauco well knows – but failed to tell his readers – no conclusion is arrived at by me; that decision is entirely in the hands of independent observers. Mr. Licauco lies, knowingly, three times.

(4) Licauco writes: “Randi hounded and harassed well-known Israeli psychic Uri Geller, saying he was nothing but a fake psychic… Geller finally fought back. He filed a harassment suit against Randi and won.” Two more lies. I have never said that Mr. Geller is or was a “fake psychic.” Geller never filed any harassment suit against me, and in the one other case he did file, he lost and had to pay $150,000 in sanctions.

(5) “The court ordered Randi not to come within a specified distance from Geller or he would be arrested. Randi was also asked to pay Geller a certain amount for all the mental torture and emotional trouble he caused.” What can I say? Both these statements are outright, knowing lies. Neither statement is true, and Mr. Licauco knows it. I have NEVER paid one cent of tribute -- fines, settlements, awards -- to any person or any organization.

(6) “[Randi] heads a small but noisy group called the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (PSICOP) and publishes the Skeptical Inquirer, the main purpose of which is to show that those who believe in such things are nuts!” Another lie. I have not been connected with CSICOP for more than a decade. However, I support Mr. Licauco's suggestion that those who believe in such matters may be nuts.

(7) “I only want to share with interested people and readers strange but true events that are normally and routinely ignored by established science and the academic community.” Untrue. Mr. Licauco has totally misrepresented the picture, and is lying to promote and shore up his view of reality.

(8) “I told the students it was good to maintain a healthy skepticism, not to accept at face value everything a person told them, but to verify everything. This way they might learn something their teacher would never learn because she kept her mind closed to the true nature of reality.” Faced with Mr. Licauco’s blatant, knowing, misrepresentation of the truth, I would agree with the first sentence of this advice.

These mendacious statements were, and are, libelous and damaging to me personally, and to the James Randi Educational Foundation. I have demanded -- but not received -- a retraction.



James Randi

 

[JonnyFive]

Of course, there's another issue here. Lot's of people help the police out. Some of them are no doubt people who claim to be psychic. There is no need for the police to be fooled by a psychic. If a psychic witnesses a murder and tells the police about it, they can genuinely claim to be a psychic who has helped the police. The fact that they were not operating as a psychic means that they are misleading people with regards to their ability, but they are not actually lying.

That is a really good point, and one I didn't even consider. I agree that this is a big issue, and I'm glad you brought it up.

 

[Cuddles]

Randi!

I think that settles the matter quite nicely.

 

[thaiboxerken]

The article is just silly and simply an opinion piece by a moron. I have fabricated an article that contains just as much fact as the article in the OP. I think mine is more credible.

"
I was recently teaching people how to shoot lasers out of their butts, when a student of mine mentioned James Randi. I informed her that Randi is just a charlatan and if I shot a laser out of my butt, he'd want to probe my anus to see if I had a device in there. This type of investigation is a pain in the arse, therefore Randi MUST be a fraud."